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GOTM 174 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Jokemaster, Jan 12, 2016.

  1. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    -0975 Caesarea founded. German -> 0g. Persian -> 0g.
    -0950 Indian -> 50g, Babylonian -> 25g
    -0925 Tarentum founded. Shared Literacy with all. Aztec -> 50g.
    -0875 Pompeii builds Hanging Gardens and celebrates. German -> 50g, Persian -> 0g, Carthaginian -> 25g, Indian -> 0g. Persian warrior bribed for 59g to get it off the spot where I plan my next city.
    -0850 Babylonian -> 50g, Aztec -> 0g.
    -0825 Philosophy -> Construction -> Medicine. Gave Construction to everyone. Nicomedia founded.
    -0800 Indian -> 0g, Carthaginian -> 25g, Persian -> 25g, Aztec -> 0g, German -> 0g, Babylonian -> 0g.
    -0750 Indian -> 0g, Aztec -> 0g, German -> 0g, Babylonian -> 0g.
    -0725 Indian -> 0g, Aztec -> 25g, German -> 0g, Babylonian -> 0g.
    -0700 Indian -> 0g, Carthaginian -> 0g, Persian -> 25g, German -> 0g, Babylonian -> 0g.
    -0675 Philosophy -> Aztec -> Polytheism, 0g. Carthaginian -> 0g. Seleucia founded.
    -0650 Medicine -> Monotheism. Indian -> 50g, Carthaginian -> 0g, Persian -> 50g, Aztec -> 0g, German -> 0g, Babylonian -> 0g. Carthaginian warrior, standing on my next city site, bribed for 67g.
    -0625 Colossus built. Artaxata founded. Philosophy shared with rivals.
    -0600 First trireme built for revealing sea specials. Aurelianorum founded. Aztec -> 25g, German -> 25g, Babylonian -> 25g.
    -0575 Indian -> 25g, Carthaginian -> 25g, Persian -> 0g.
    -0550 Carthaginian -> 0g.
    -0500 First structure, a barracks, built. Indian -> 25g, Carthaginian -> 25g, Persian -> 0g, Aztec -> 50g, German -> 25g, Babylonian -> 25g.

    Status at -0500
    Population: 0.96M; Cities: 24; Techs: 19; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 145; Cost: 1; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Colossus
    Units: 17 settler, 32 warriors, 1 Phalanx, 1 None archers, 2 Chariots (1 None), 1 trireme, 2 diplomats, 4 vans
    Goals: Monotheism (2-3 turns), Michelangelo (5 turns), Shakespeare (4 turns), conquest of some rivals, Copernicus, Pyramids?, Marco?
    Babylonian: no embassy, 2 visible cities
    German: no embassy, 2 visible cities
    Aztec: no embassy, 2 visible cities
    Persian: no embassy, 2 visible cities
    Carthaginian: no embassy, 2 visible cities
    Indian: 2 cities, 14 techs;
  2. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Jan 14, 2011
    More "highlights"

    540- Van, Cumae - Tenochtitlan (Aztec), Gems, for 396g.
    580- Cumae builds Isaac Newton College.
    Van, Veii - Delhi (Indian), Gold, for 222g.
    660- Van, Cumae- Babylon(Babyl), Dye, for 228g.
    680- Van, Cumae - Hispalis(offshore), Hides, for 272g.
    720- disc San -> Inv.
    740- Cumae sewers = size 13.
    760- Cumae builds Shakespeare Theatre, and sells temple. disc Inv -> Dem.
    Aim for 860 OEDO.
    Indians deliver Dye from Delhi to Pisae.
    Indians develop Med, too late.
    860- disc Dem -> Nav. Become Democracy.
    Van, Hispalis - Cumae, Beads(und), for 121g.
    Van, Hispalis - Teotihuacan(Aztec), Salt, for 212g.
    Van, Cumae - Tenochtitlan(Aztec), Dye, for 192g.
    980- disc Ste -> RR. 463/1064. Lux to 30%. Rome and Veii are size 18. Cumae is 25, and still growing.
    Van, Cumae - Antium, Hides, for 116g.
    1000- disc RR -> Ind.

    1000AD Stats.
    Everyone likes us.
    pop: 121 - 10.27m; Cities: 9; techs: 38; gold: 377; cost: 58; Gov.: Dem;
    wonders: HG, Colossus, LH / Mike's, Copernicus, Shakes / Newton. Others have Pyramids.
    TR: ?D/?F.
    units: 10 settler, 8 phalanx, 2 ele, 1 chariot, 2 crusader, 1 trireme, 2 dip, 9 vans.
    Goals: Push through techs. Trade with offshore city Hispalis. Another offshore city.
    Romans: That's us.   Supreme.                9 cities.  38 techs       -> Ind.
    Babylonians  - enthusiastic, peace,  286g.   1 city.    23 techs       -> Phys.
    Germans - enthusiastic, peace, 258g.         2 cities.  29 techs       -> Chiv.
    Aztecs - enthusiastic, peace, 393g.          3 cities.  33 techs       -> Gun.
    Persians - enthusiastic, peace, 400g.        4 cities.  26 techs       -> Math.
    Carthaginians - enthusiastic, peace, 365g.   3 cities.  26 techs       -> Ast.
    Indians - enthusiastic, peace, 430g.         4 cities.  31 techs       -> Gun.
    Carthags(2) are fighting Indians and Persians. Give RR. Also to Persians, Aztecs, Germans.
    Also Nav to Germans. Nothing to Indians, as it would be nice were someone to discover something I haven't got.
  3. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    @Ali: I had 3 foreign route specials in Rome after making the delivery. I think what happened is that Delhi was still in Monarchy gov't so its arrow total was still quite low: trading was getting carried by Rome arrows, Hides demand+the existence of an AI critical path. So Rome+Véies ended up having more arrows than Rome+Delhi (but not Rome+Babylon since they did have Republic gov't, Véies and Babylon size 8) and it got chosen as a new active route even if the road bonuses were nonexistent. Kinda sucks, but not sure if I could have done anything to prevent whilst Indians were still in Monarchy.
  4. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    -0450 Monotheism -> Mathematics.
    -0425 Indian -> 0g, Carthaginian -> declare war over my demand for tribute, Persian -> 50g, Aztec -> 0g, German -> Wheel, Babylonian -> 50g. Chariot kills 2 Carthaginian units and turns vet.
    -0400 Shakespeare built. Lost my None warrior attacking Carthaginian horseman.
    -0375 Michelangelo built. 2 Crusaders built. Crusader kills Carthaginian horseman. All ignore my demand for tribute.
    -0325 Carthage investigated. It has a phalanx and an archer defending it. Both are likely vet as it has barracks. It is building city walls; I have to rush. Crusader attacks and kills the archer. Hippo Regius founded near Carthaginian Utica. Indian, Aztec, Babylonian -> 0g, German -> 50g.
    -0275 Carthaginians kill a crusader and a warrior near Carthage and lose their unit attacking me near Utica. Vet crusader and vet chariot kill 2 defenders of Carthage. The city is captured for 25g. Accepted Carthaginian offer of 50g for cease fire. Indian -> 25g, Persian -> 0g, Aztec -> 25g, Babylonian -> 0g.
    -0250 Math -> Engineering. Silk to Persepolis for 102 establishes the first trade route.
    -0225 Carthaginians declare war over my demand for tribute. Utica bribed for 216g. Got 32g, barracks, 2 soldiers, and a settler. Carthaginian civilization destroyed.
    -0200 Copper to Tenochtitlan for 72. Math -> Indian -> 25g.
    -0175 Lighthouse built; decided that offshore colonies are too important to put off till after Navigation. Having 4 vans in storage also helped. Wool to science city for 56 establishes the first domestic trade route. Babylonian -> Seafaring; German, Aztec, Persian -> 0g; Seafaring -> Indian -> Iron Working.
    -0150 Indian, Persian, Aztec, Babylonian -> 25g; German -> 0g.
    -0125 Engineering -> Astronomy. Hides to Persepolis for 60.
    -0100 King Richard's built in the science city of Pompeii; currently size 4 but will be 5 in 2 turns. Wool to Rome for 24.
    -0075 Foreign deliveries for 72, 80, 126. Persian -> 25g; Babylonian, German, Aztec -> 0g.
    -0050 Astronomy -> Republic. Zabol founded as the first offshore city on the northern island. Second Trireme heads for the southern island. Hides to Babylon for 132. Domestic Cloth for 60. Science city now has 3 routes. Persian, Babylonian, German, Aztec -> 0g. Persian Pasargadae attacked at the expense of my reputation. Its single defender is killed and the city is taken for 7g. Two more Persian units killed. German archer killed. First black head appears.
    -0025 None Chariot survives Persian warrior and turns vet. 1 Persian and 2 German units killed. Domestic salt for 28.
    +0001 Crusader on hill survives German horseman. Copernicus built. 50g from hut on northern island. Lost vet crusader in attack on Berlin. Hides to Delhi for 84. Aztec -> 0g. Aztec warrior bribed for 40g (none) to open up the way towards Leipzig. T7L0S3 to delay Republic till the next oedo year.

    Status at +0001
    Population: 2.2M; Cities: 29; Techs: 26; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 271; Cost: 3; Trade routes: 8D8F;
    Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Lighthouse, Michelangelo, King Richard's, Shakespeare, Copernicus
    Units: 22 settlers, 30 warriors (1 None), 2 Phalanx, 2 archers (1 None), 2 Chariots (1 None), 3 Crusaders, 2 trireme, 2 diplomats, 17 vans
    Goals: Conquest of Persians and Germans, looking for opportunities to reduce other rivals to one city (their capital), Republic (3 turns), settlement of southern island (next turn), embassies with Babylonians and Aztecs.
    Babylonian: no embassy, 2 visible cities
    German: no embassy, 2 visible cities; war with me
    Aztec: no embassy, 2 visible cities
    Persian: no embassy, 1 visible cities; war with me
    Carthaginian: Destroyed by me
    Indian: 2 cities, 19 techs;
  5. haleewud

    haleewud Prince

    Feb 16, 2010
    Probably will build warrior and then go for size 1, I am probably going to go for early conquest

    4000 BC: Rome built on starting Location, Work Gems for Science
    3950 BC: Start Alphabet, Worker to Pheasant
    3800 BC: Warrior built, heads north, worker to Gems
    3750 BC: Three choices for Hut#1 are 100g,25g and Archer, I choose 100G, RB 9sh(22g), Worker to Pheasant
    3700 BC: Alphabet -> Code of Laws (22)
    3650 BC: Worker to Forest (for size 1)
    3600 BC: Choices for Hut#2 (at 8,26) are Chariot(NON), Advanced Tribe (Veii), Archer(NON), since I am still 7 turns from siz 1, I choose Veii (since there will be no size 1, the worker goes back to Pheasant)
    3500 BC: (Interturn) Germans destroyed by Barbarians
    3450 BC: Meet Indians, They demand 50, given, Peace, Trade Alphabet for Bronze Working (33)
    3400 BC: Choices for Hut#3 (at 14,28) are HBR(NON), weeds and 50g, Choose 50g
    3350 BC: Meet Aztecs, Peace, Rome is size 2 (working gems and pheasant, settler is 6 shields away)
    3250 BC: Rome Settler, RB Veii 8sh
    3200 BC: Aztecs want help against Indians willing to give 50, I decline, Meet Babyloniansm, they demand Alphabet, I give it, Peace, RB Veii 9sh
    3000 BC: Code of Laws -> Ceremonial Burial (48), Hut (0,32)-> Archer(ROM)

    stats at -3000:
    pop.: .04; cities: 2; techs: 3, gov: Despotism, gold: 61; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
    units: 1 Settler, 3 Warriors, 1 Archer
    wonders: None

    Babylonians : No Embassy
    Germans: Destroyed by Barbarians (although Indians control Berlin based on top 5 cities)
    Aztecs: No Embassy
    Carthaginians: No Contact
    Indians: No Embassy

    2900 BC: Antium founded at 38,26 (other side of date line)
    2850 BC: RB Rome 5sh(11)
    2800 BC: Hut (32,32)-> Advanced Tribe (Cumae)
    2700 BC: Hut (7,43)-> Chariot (NON)
    2650 BC: Meet Persians, Peace, Hut (34,26)-> 50, RB Rome 2sh, Antium 8sh
    2600 BC: Withdraw from Ur
    2550 BC: Carthaginians destroyed by Indians, Hut (33,15)-> Advance Tribe (Neapolis)
    2500 BC: withdraw from Pasargadae
    2450 BC: Hut (28,24)-> Archer (NON)
    2400 BC: Ceremonial Burial -> Monarchy (60), Rome Settlers, Pompeii founded (5,21), RB Cumae 4sh
    2350 BC: RB Veii 4sh, Neapolis 2sh
    2200 BC: Antium Settlers
    2150 BC: RB Neapolis 2sh
    2100 BC: RB Pompeii 8sh
    2050 BC: Pisae founded (0,34)

    stats at -2000:
    pop.: .13; cities: 7; techs: 4, gov: Despotism, gold: 98; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
    units: 1 Settlers, 6 Warriors, 2 Archers, 1 Chariot
    wonders: None

    Babylonians : No Embassy
    Germans: Destroyed by Barbarians (Indians control Berlin)
    Aztecs: No Embassy
    Persians: No Embassy (Indians control Pasargadae)
    Carthaginians: Destroyed by Indians (Indians control Carthage)
    Indians: No Embassy

    1950 BC: Withdraw from Ur
    1900 BC: Veii Settlers
    1850 BC: Monarchy -> Currency (78), REVOLUTION, Cumae Settlers, Monarchy established
    1800 BC: Neapolis Settlers
    1650 BC: Withdraw from Persepolis, Rome Settlers
    1600 BC: Aztec offer 50 for Alliance, refused
    1550 BC: Pompeii Settlers, Currency -> HBR (84), Trade with Indians (5) Monarchy -> HBR, no Tribute, Tribute from Persians (2) 100, Aztecs (3) 100 and Babylonians (4) 50
    1500 BC: Start Polytheism (96), Antium Settlers, Greeks are in game (Athens is 4th best city)
    1450 BC: 200K, Ravenna founded (29,25)
    1400 BC: 2 units withdraw from Persian Territory, Cumae Settlers, Polytheism -> Writing (108)
    1250 BC: Antium builds Barracks
    1200 BC: Indians develop Mysticism, Veii builds Barracks
    1100 BC: 2 units withdrawn from Ur
    1050 BC: Rome builds Barracks, Writing -> Trade (120), Pisae disbands Warrior, RB 5sh+10sh+10sh(61)
    1000 BC: Pisae Diplomat, Contact Babylonians, demand Tribute, they ignore, Attack Ur, Kill Archer, Bribe size 1 empty city for 61 (16+MM)

    stats at -1000:
    pop.: .34; cities: 9; techs: 10, gov: Monarchy, gold: 62; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:3
    units: 7 Settlers, 7 Warriors, 2 Archers, 1 Chariot, 5 Elephant
    wonders: None

    Babylonians : No Embassy, War
    Germans: Destroyed by Barbarians (Indians control Berlin)
    Aztecs: No Embassy
    Persians: No Embassy (Indians control Pasargadae)
    Carthaginians: Destroyed by Indians (Indians control Carthage)
    Greeks: No Contact
    Indians: No Embassy
  6. haleewud

    haleewud Prince

    Feb 16, 2010
    The pace in the next segment really picked up.

    975 BC: Pompeii Diplomat
    925 BC: Kill Phalanx in Babylon, Capture Babylon (42+Masonry)
    900 BC: Neapolis Barracks, 400K, Bribe Persian Warrior 25
    875 BC: Find Nineveh, Babylonians offer Pottery for CF, no, 50G, yes, no Peace
    850 BC: Pompeii Diplomat
    825 BC: Cumae Diplomat, Demand Tribute from Persians, they ignore, Attack Persepolis, kill Warrior, Persepolis is sacked (16+Pott), Bribe Persian Phal 45
    800 BC: Aztecs demand withdraw, I refuse, WAR, Pisae Diplomat, Elephant dies attacking Tenochtitlan, Chariot kills Phalanx in Tenochtitlan, Tenochtitlan is sacked (16), Aztecs offer all Gold (48) and knowledge (none) for CF, I accept, Bribe Tlatelolco 52, Aztecs destroyed, Bribe Susa 112 (45) Persians destroyed
    775 BC: 500K, Bribe Indian Chariot 97
    750 BC: 600K, Meet Greeks, they make demands, I ignore, WAR, kill 2 Greek Horse, Sell Antium Barracks
    725 BC: Pompeii Diplomat, Bribe Nineveh 106 (13), Babylonians destroyed
    700 BC: Trade -> Literacy (210), Demand tribute from Indians, they ignore, Attack Delhi, kill Phal+Warrior, Capture Delhi (59+Mysticism), Bribe Indian Warrior 31, Kill Phal+Warr in Pasargadae, Bribe Size 1, empty Pasagarde 36 (26+Wheel)
    675 BC: Kill Phal+Archer in Berlin (2 Ele die)
    650 BC: Indian Chariot kills Settler, Kill Phal in Berlin, Capture Berlin (87), Kill Indian Chariot
    625 BC: 900K
    600 BC: Pompeii Diplomat (disorder), 1 Million, Hispalis founded (28,38)
    575 BC: Greeks land near Neapolis, kill Warrior, Pisae Food, order restored in Pompeii, disorder in Neapolis, Cumae Food, Rome Food, Bribe Greek Chariot 106
    550 BC: Greek Settler lands near Neapolis, order restored in Neapolis, Ur Food, Antium Food, 4 Food to Antium
    525 BC: Susa Food, Antium builds MPE,
    CF with Greeks, Give them Poly+Myst+Pott+Mon+Mason+Curr), exchange maps, Athens is at 23,5,1, going to need some boats
    Greeks: 12 tech, 1 city, 119 Gold
    Indians: 12 tech, 2 cities, 249 gold
    Kill Phal+Warrior in Carthage (1 Ele dies), capture Carthage (83), CF with Indians, Give Poly+Write+Trade, exchange maps
    500 BC: Literacy -> Philosophy (272), Bribe Sparta 35 (25) War, Ravenna disbands Warrior

    stats at -500:
    pop.: 1.08; cities: 19; techs: 16, gov: Monarchy, gold: 105; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:5
    units: 5 Settlers, 23 Warriors, 5 Phal, 2 Archers, 1 Horsemen, 3 Chariot, 7 Elephant, 1 Trireme, 1 Diplomat, 2 Caravans
    wonders: MPE

    Babylonians : Destroyed
    Germans: Destroyed by Barbarians (actually Indians)
    Aztecs: Destroyed
    Persians: Destroyed
    Carthaginians: Destroyed by Indians
    Greeks: 1 city, 12 tech, 102 gold, WAR, despotism
    Indians: 1 city, 15 tech, 167 gold, CF, Monarchy

    The end of my game is in the spoiler
    Spoiler :

    450 BC: Greek govt overthrown, Tlatelolco Food
    425 BC: Greeks establish Monarchy, Veii Food, Babylon Food, Rome Food, 4 vans to Rome
    400 BC: Nineveh Food, Pompeii Food, Rome builds LH
    375 BC: Ur Food
    350 BC: Greeks land near Neapolis, kill Warrior, Pisae Food, Cumae Food, Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Construction (342), Veii Diplomat, Kill Phal in Athens, Capture Athens (78), Greeks destroyed (no respawn), 4 vans to Rome
    325 BC: Rome builds HG (WLT Imperator day), Kill Phalanx in Bombay, Capture Bombay, Indians destroyed, game ends
  7. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Interesting log haleewud. You are the only one so far who got a respawn on one of the small islands. In my game I have not built the Marco wonder but by +200s I have conquered two rivals and settled both small islands. For both islands, my first boat carried a warrior and a settler. The warrior went after huts and exploring to make sure there were no respawns and there were not any. The fact that your Indians managed to wipe out 2 other rivals is also quite interesting.
  8. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Prince

    Mar 21, 2011
    Final part of my log. As mentioned before, nothing too spectacular. Germans sneak attacked us, but all our allies joined the war and helped to fight them off. I also felt like I could afford to speed things up with Darwin...it turned out, I was right. At some point I stopped to ask for gifts since I did not want to give my allies an excusion to cancel the alliance.

    stats at 1000 AD:
    city size 24; techs: 36; Gold: 1516; units: 1 settler, 3 vans; 2 army; Gov: Dem; city: Market, library, city walls, aquaeduct, Bank, university, stock exchange, sewer, harbor; Colossus, Copernicus, Shakespeare, Newton; TR:3

    1020 Gunpowd.->Magnetism;
    1060 Mag->Explosives; 50g from India; I feel like we have a lot of gold, let's use it...
    1100 Expl.->Metallurgy;
    1120 Metall->Industr.->Corporation(1176); Darwin built; 546 beakers done, stop celebrations
    1160 Corporation->Electricity(1161); 1st pollution, engineer built; 25g from Aztecs
    1200 100g from India;
    1220 Electr.->Refrigeration; 150g from Babylon
    1280 Refr.->Steel(1260); 2nd engineer built; Wine(d)>Ellipi 110, Spices (d)>Ashur 212;
    1320 Steel->Refining(1288); Supermarket built;
    (German dip destroys our market place!!! Never seen something like this so early!)
    1380 Refining->Electronics
    (Germans sneak attack, kill an engineer, Babyls, Aztecs, Persians, Carths, Indians all join our war)
    1420 Rush a cannon
    (Archer in fort holds against german musceteer; Persians Communism)
    1440 Electronics->Conscription, we need some defence; Gems(d)>Delhi 200
    1480 Market rebuilt
    1500 Conscription->Combustion(1372);

    stats at 1500 AD:
    city size 22; techs: 48; Gold: 2033; units: 1 settler, 1 engineer, 5 vans; 3 army; Gov: Dem; city: Market, library, city walls, aquaeduct, Bank, university, stock exchange, sewer, supermarket, harbor; Colossus, Copernicus, Shakespeare, Newton, Darwin; TR:3

    1510 India 100g
    1520 Babylon 150g, Aztecs 50g
    1530 Combustion->Atomic Theory; Wine(d)>Bombay 137
    (India discovers exlposives and has immediately 2 engineers running around???)
    1540 Bribe Indian engineer for 1088, second would be 1448... too expensive
    1560 Atomic->Automobile;
    1590 Auto->MassProd.(1404)
    1600 Superhighways; 780 beakers done
    1610 MassProd.->NuclFiss(1512); Obviously, we need to research Chivalry on our own, get Feudalism + 75g from Babylon, 50g from India
    1620 Mass transit; Rom celebrates again
    1640 NFiss->NPower(1568); HBR and 200g from Persia
    1650 534 beakers; Wine(d)>Bombay 262
    1660 Factory built
    1670 NPower->Chivalry(1596);
    1680 Nucular plant built
    1700 Chiv->Leadership
    1720 Babylon 150g
    1730 Leader->Tactics(1652)
    1740 Communism+100g from India
    1752 Tactics->MachTools; Rom maxed out at size 30
    1754 UN built(Babyls were working on it
    1756 MachTools->Mini; India 100g
    1760 Mini->Computer
    1764 Computers->Laser(1920); Wine(d)>Bombay 270, Coal(d)>Malaca 337
    1768 Laser->Flight(1950);
    1770 Science Lab; 872 beakers done
    1774 Flight->Recycling(1980)
    1780 Recyc->Radio(2010)
    1784 Babylon 150g
    1786 Missed Radio because of another shift, we are strong now
    1788 Radio->Adv. Flight(2176)
    1790 Indian fregate bribed for 955, now we can ship a freight over to Lahore on cont. 1, and they are demanding cloth! Well, they are no longer, of course...:(
    1794 Adv. Flight->Rockets(2070); Coal(d)>Malaca 187, Cloth(u)>Lahore 174, and now they are demanding cloth again?!
    1796 We have a lot of vans, use one for unblocking cloth, finally remember to sell sewer
    1798 Rockets->Espionage(2170); sell aquaeduct
    1802 Esp.->Space(2201); Cloth(d)>Lahore 445; Begin wonder
    1806 Another shift costs us Space...
    1808 Space->plastics(2520); Rush Adam Smith, switch to Apollo, add 3 vans
    1810 Apollo built; discover one polar hut, pop it and get 100g; sign peace with Germany
    1816 Plastics->Supercond.(2263); 3rd structure
    1824 Super->Amph.Warf; 7th structure, had to give away some techs so they don't have an excuse to cancel alliance
    1832 Amph.->Fusion; 11 structures
    1840 Fusion->FT1; 15 structures complete
    1848 FT1->Environ.; 4 components built
    1851 All components built
    1853 Env.->FT2
    1854 Ship 15-3-3-1-1-1 and launch!
    1855 Airport
    1856 Fighter
    1861 FT3->Guerilla
    1862 Oracle built; India joins space race and builds 5 structures
    1863 GW built
    1864 Sun Tzu built
    1865 Guerilla->FT5
    1866 KRC built
    1867 LH built
    1868 Manhattan built; Missed FT5 because of another shift to inadequate
    1869 Spaceship lands and game over
  9. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    +0020 Single defender of Leipzig killed and the city taken for 24g. Aztec embassy established. Kerman founded on the southern island.
    +0040 Another vet crusader lost on Berlin. Domestic delivery for 24.
    +0060 Republic -> Sanitation. 2 defenders of Berlin killed and the city taken for 27g. German civilization destroyed. Persian archer killed. Republic to all rivals but Persians; no tributes. Republic established. Foreign deliveries for 132, 120. Domestic deliveries for 72, 54. Crusader from southern hut. With 6 Crusaders and 2 vet chariots, I do not think I will need more soldiers anymore; barracks sold. T2L4S4
    +0080 Lost a crusader attacking Persians. Zahedan founded on the northern island. Domestic Cloth for 80.
    +0100 Sanitation -> University. Domestic deliveries for 48, 56. Babylonian embassy established.
    +0120 Foreign deliveries for 132, 84, 88.
    +0140 University -> Chemistry. Domestic deliveries for 48. 50g from the last hut (on the north pole).
    +0160 Persians fortify an elephant next to Seleucia which is defended by a single warrior and supports a boat and a van. Accepted Persian offer of peace. Wine to Babylon for 140. Domestic deliveries for 76, 100, 78.
    +0180 Chemistry -> Theory of Gravity. Persians back off. Persian embassy established. Hides to Babylon for 64. Domestic deliveries for 48. Bam founded.
    +0200 Domestic deliveries for 68, 128. Hides to Delhi for 104.
    +0220 Gordion founded.
    +0240 Theory of Gravity -> Banking. Domestic deliveries for 76, 72, 96. Hides to Delhi for 100.
    +0280 Banking -> Invention. Domestic deliveries for 94.
    +0300 Hides to Delhi for 76. Domestic deliveries for 110. Aztecs declare war rather than move troops. Aztec catapult killed. Warrior died in attack on Aztec horseman.
    +0320 Aztec elephant kills warrior defending Lutetia. Aztec Phalanx walks in and takes the city. 2 caravans and a settler lost. Aztecs take Iron Working. Invention -> Democracy. Senate hands peace to Aztecs! Domestic deliveries for 64. Gold to Delhi for 81. T3L4S3
    +0380 Democracy -> Economics. Aztecs declare war rather than pay tribute. Vet crusaders kill 3 defenders of Teo. The city is captured for 46g and barracks. Accepted 100g from Aztecs for cease fire. Lutetia bribed back for 346g. Got 7g and 2 soldiers. Aztec settler killed to occupy the fort it was in. Indian, Babylonian -> 0g, Persian -> 75g. Democracy established. T3L3S4. Domestic deliveries for 60, 102. Copper to Ur for 70.
    +0400 Aztecs lose a horse attacking Teo. Domestic deliveries for 76, 46.
    +0420 Economics -> Gunpowder. Lost 2 vet crusaders, 1 vet chariot, and 1 vet elephant on Tenochtitlan before killing 2 of its 3 defenders. Domestic deliveries for 90. Wine to Babylon for 157.
    +0440 Last wounded defender of Tenochtitlan killed and the city captured for 41g and city walls. Aztec civilization destroyed.
    +0460 Gunpowder -> Metallurgy. Newton built. Spice to Delhi for 210. Babylonians declare war rather than move troops. Ur bribed for 804g. Got 97g, 2 structures, 4 soldiers, and 3 settlers. Senate hands peace to Babylonians. Domestic deliveries for 52. Spice to Persepolis for 198.
    +0480 Metallurgy -> Explosives. Domestic deliveries for 85, 90. Hides to Persepolis for 128.
    +0500 Explosives -> Conscription. Hides to Persepolis for 82.

    Status at +0500
    Population: 17.5M; Cities: 38; Techs: 38; Government: Democracy
    Gold: 863; Cost: 83; Trade routes: 66D19F;
    Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Lighthouse, Michelangelo, King Richard's, Shakespeare, Copernicus, Newton
    Units: 22 settlers, 20 warriors (1 None), 4 Phalanx, 2 archers (1 None), 1 None Chariot, 3 Crusaders, 2 trireme, 2 diplomats, 8 vans
    Goals: Capture or bribing of Bombay, Leo (next turn), Bach, Adam Smith, Darwin, Refrigeration.
    Babylonian: 1 city, 23 techs
    German: Destroyed by me
    Aztec: Destroyed by me
    Persian: 1 city, 26 techs
    Carthaginian: Destroyed by me
    Indian: 2 cities, 20 techs;
  10. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    Hummm, you have lots of pop more than I do at this point, and the more cities doesn't really explain. Did you celebrate your core cities to size 12? How low of a luxury rate could you handle afterwards? At this point you're 6 techs ahead of me and more-or-less even on my (now scuttled) 2nd try.
  11. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    I was at 40% lux in republic and 30% in democracy. My science city is above size 20. Very few cities, if any, are above 12 but quite a few are at 12. Both islands are settled with 2 cities in each. Almost every city has a marketplace and most have temples. Most cities have 2-3 trade routes. In fact the main activity in this time period was building trade routes (from 8d8f in +1 to 66d19f in +500).
  12. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    So that's what KRC was for? Seems like an odd use of shields unless you have excess vans lying around. (Entirely possible since you were probably more worried about city multiplication instead of doing the landgrab w/farther out cities.) I wonder if it is possible to get a base 29shields SSC (+21 from KRC, so 50 per turn) in a normal game w/o excessive terraforming, especially if said squares are rivered. Pollution tho...

    30% seems a wee bit high for size12's (I assume it will go down after Bach's, and up again after HG expires) Wonder where the true lux rate will end up being.

    Mine was 0%, so I as able to set my science rate super high: however, sometimes I ended up setting it lower than I wanted to, since it would waste beakers in Rome otherwise (the rest of my empire didn't have enough beaker production to trigger a tech by themselves w/o significant van deliveries) This persisted until SETI, when I was finally able to alternate 1tech and 2tech turns.

    In other words, maybe the higher LUX rate won't matter for you, since the extra science would be wasted anyways...
  13. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Since the start I was very concerned about both city multiplication and making sure my rivals do not build more than 1-2 cities each. Having an advanced tribe out of the third hut helped but it was the only one I got in the game and I did not get any nomads at all. However, I did place my cities close together than usual taking maximum advantage of the dateline bug. Thankfully I was successful and no rival built more than one extra city.

    As for King Richard's, it was planned well in advance. In my games, if I can afford the vans and I can do so early enough I build King Richard's in my science city which is always the largest city. It pays off handsomely and the occurrence of pollution is quite infrequent. In this game I happened to have a pile of vans sitting around so it was a no brainer; I built the wonder the turn after discovering Engineering.

    What was not planned in advance was Lighthouse. I got to a point when there were only 1-2 city sites left, there were a decent amount of settlers, I had a trireme, and I had a pile of food vans. I decided then not to wait for Navigation and start the offshore colonization. The lighthouse was immediately built with 4 vans and I set out for the northern island. In retrospect this was the best unplanned decision in the whole game. This allowed me to put off Navigation (and its negative effect on trade bonuses) for many turns: lighthouse was built in -175, Navigation discovered in +560.

    The most unusual characteristic of this game, compared to my typical landing games, is how many food vans I have had piled up at various points in the game. Here it was partially caused by my extra long stay in Monarchy to allow me to get rid of some rivals. While in Monarchy I rarely build any structures and since in this game expansion was limited, after any city could no longer support settlers it would build food vans. Good flow of tribute from rivals was also a big help.

    I typically have, and this game has been no exception, 40% in republic, 30% in democracy before railroad, and 20% after railroad expires Hanging Gardens and before the Cure. Between the expiration of Hanging Gardens and the building of Cure I expect no celebrations. After the Cure is built, in a maxed-out mature empire like this game I can manage celebrations with 20% (plus 3 routes and plenty of infrastructure) but in an expanding empire I go back to 30% to allow my younger cities to grow quickly.

    I have toyed with 10% but quite rarely. Beyond a certain point, however, it is a great idea to build Colosseums (which I rarely build) and reduce the rate on an empire that cannot grow any longer.

    I do not believe I have ever tried 0% because in my landing games my cities are too large to survive on 0%. Even assuming no black heads (which is the case here), you get only 2 content citizens from a temple, 3 from a cathedral (after Theology and Communism), 4 from a colloseum (after electronics), 1 from a court house, 2 from Bach, and 1 from Cure. That is 13 total. Cities larger than that have to rely on specialists. I suppose for cities in low 20s or below this is possible. I got to try it some time.
    In +1000 and before SETI I can get a tech at 40% science.
  14. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    +0520 Leo built. Domestic deliveries for 232.
    +0540 Conscription -> Navigation. Domestic deliveries for 99, 70, 44, 81. Beads to Bombay for 50.
    +0560 Navigation -> Physics. Gems to Bombay for 123.
    +0580 Physics -> Atomic Theory. Hides to Persepolis for 42. Domestic deliveries for 62.
    +0600 First pollution appears near Pompeii which just maxed out at size 27 prior to farmlands. Domestic deliveries for 62, 63, 51.
    +0620 Atomic Theory -> Magnetism. Adam Smith built. Foreign Hides for 60, 66. Zaal founded.
    +0640 Magnetism -> Bridge Building. Gunpowder -> Indian -> Bridge Building. Hides to Persepolis for 66. Domestic deliveries for 84, 171.
    +0660 -> Electricity
    +0680 Electricity -> Steam Engine. Gems to Babylon for 219. Salt to Bombay for 216.
    +0700 Steam Engine -> Refrigeration. Hides to Delhi for 64.
    +0720 Accepted Babylonian offer of 150g for alliance and war against Persians. Refrigeration -> Feudalism. Met Persians and senate gave them cease fire. Gems to Bombay for 78.
    +0740 Gold to Delhi for 192. Senate hands peace to Persians. Domestic deliveries for 82.
    +0760 Feudalism -> Chivalry. Hides to Persepolis for 50. Domestic deliveries for 155.
    +0780 Chivalry -> Leadership. Domestic deliveries for 145, 275.
    +0800 Leadership -> Theology. Gold to science city for 246.
    +0820 Theology -> Tactics. Domestic deliveries for 99.
    +0840 Bach built.
    +0860 Tactics -> Railroad. Domestic deliveries for 160.
    +0880 Railroad -> Industrialization. Gifted railroad to everyone. T4L2S4
    +0900 Industrialization -> Amphibious Warfare. T2L2S6
    +0920 Amphibious Warfare -> Corporation.
    +0940 Corporation -> Steel. Domestic deliveries for 314, 78, 104, 192.
    +0960 Steel -> Genetic Engineering. Domestic deliveries for 270, 144, 156. Salt to Bombay for 66. Finally got a chance to gift Indians without being cut off and gave them everything except Democracy. Tech cost went down by about 600. Ever since 640, when I got Bridge Building from them, I wanted to do this and could not. T8L2S0
    +0980 Genetic Engineering -> Refining -> Combustion -> Automobile. Darwin built. T3L2S5. Domestic deliveries for 126, 290, 92. Silver to Babylon for 260. All existing cities now have 3 trade routes.
    +1000 Automobile -> Electronics. Cure built. Salt to Bombay for 152.

    Status at +1000
    Population: 40.3M; Cities: 39; Techs: 61; Government: Democracy
    Gold: 2001; Cost: 201; Trade routes: full;
    Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Lighthouse, Michelangelo, King Richard's, Shakespeare, Copernicus, Newton, Leo, Bach, Adam Smith, Darwin, Cure
    Units: 22 engineers, 12 Riflemen (2 None), 4 Cavalry (1 None), 2 transports, 2 diplomats, 18 vans
    Goals: Capture or bribing of Bombay, Hoover (for pollution control) in 2 turns, SETI, space race.
    Babylonian: 1 city, 30 techs; allied with me
    German: Destroyed by me
    Aztec: Destroyed by me
    Persian: 1 city, 31 techs
    Carthaginian: Destroyed by me
    Indian: 2 cities, 60 techs;
  15. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    Just doublechecked my log: the 1tech and 2tech alternating actually started after SuperHighways in Rome and not after SETI. SETI merely compensated for the loss of the Colossus arrows after Flight.

    Not revealing my landing date quite yet... first part of my final leg. For the sake of comparison I will re-include my status at 1000 AD once again.

    STATUS AT 1000 AD: (Beginning of 151th turn)
    Population: 10.260.000 Cities: 32 Government: Democracy Total advances: 55 (researching Mass Production)
    Gold: 126 T1L0S9 Income/Cost per turn: 102 income, 55 cost. Production: 232MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Colossus, Marco’s, Cope’s, HG, Isaac Newton’s in SSC Rome. Mikes, JSB, Leo’s in Antium. Pyramids conquered from the Aztecs. MPE also in Rome. Darwin’s in Palmyre. No extra wonders being built although I have plans for SETI as most helpers have libraries already.
    Units: 17 Engineers, 26 Musketeers, 6 Transports, 16 Freight.

    1000 AD CONTINUED: Lugundum dye (d) to Persépolis: 62g. Ur coal (nd) to Rome: 35g. Payouts seem really low, I wonder if this is treated as a normal-sized map instead of a small one. (So no 25% bonuses to trade) Tlateloco spice (d) to TarenteNord: 146g. Encouraging. Brundisium beads (d) to JérusalemNord: 66g. Cumes silk (d) to JérusalemNord: 120g.

    1020 AD: NOTE THE 1020 AD.. God darnit. Now I’m in trouble, anyone who did a faster Early Repu strat will be able to shave so much time by launching well before 1500 AD if they were able to get celebrations+trade earlier (but then lower amount of cities+not guaranteed access to the offshore lands maybe). Mass Production > Conscription. Rome 198 trade arrows. 35 arrows from each trade route to Babylon and Delhi… and that’s with Naples taking up a square in Rome’s radius. Holy moly. Mass Transit rushed in Rome. Rome hides (d) to Delhi: 395g. Rome coal (d) to Nineve: 355g. Lutèce hides (d) to Delhi: 126g. Naples hides (d) to Delhi: 78g. Oh, yeah, forgot about Mass Production zeroing… no it zeroes hides demand, not supply. Cumes hides (d) to Delhi: 78g. Rome gems (d) to SéleucideSud: 620g!!! Beaker box full. T3L0S7.
    Interturn: Babs develop Explosives.

    1040 AD: Conscription > Electronics > Nuclear Fission. Syracuse beads (nd) to Suse: 23g. Ur oil (d) to Véies: 56g. Cumes copper (d) to Rome: 120g. Holy disappointing… guess the colonies are the only way. CaesareaSud gold (d) to Delhi: 384g. Véies gold (d) to Delhi: 208g. Pompéi hides (d) to Delhi: 64g. Tlateloco cloth (nd) to Rome: 61g. Bombay wool (d) to JérusalemNord: 68g. T0L0S10.

    1060 AD: Nuclear Fission > Nuclear Energy. I think I’m good for alternating 2-tech and 1-tech turns. Berlin wine (d) to SéleucideSud: 137g. T2L0S8. Need to get superhighways on the helper cities before resuming hides vans to Delhi. Naples oil (d) to Véies: 52g.

    1080 AD: Nuclear Energy > Laser > Chivalry. Dang. AurelianorumSud silk (d) to Rome: 660g. It’s 200gold base-ish for a nd van then? Huh. Lutèce hides (nd) to NicomédieNord: 28g. Darnit, it got rid of the beads demand… JérusalemNord wine (d) to Naples: 130g. Viroconium oil (d) to Lugnudum: 63g. Ur dye (d) to Pasargades: 60g. NicomédieNord silver (d) to Rome: 535g. DELHI NO LONGER DEMANDS HIDES. Foreal this time. JérusalemNord hides (nd) to Rome: 226g. Palmyre beads (d) to ArxtaxtaSud: 86g. T1L0S9, swap Rome scientists to tax collectors since I still have filled box + enough beakers to get another 2tech turn. 1840techcost, 1940 per turn. T1L0S9.
    Interturn: Persian gov’t overthrown.

    1100 AD: Chivalry > LEADERSHIP NOT AVAILABLE, RECYCLING > Leadership. Holy, 12 WoWs available to be built… but keep in mind not everyone’s going to go for landing, so no green star for me. I seem better geared for blue. (Postgame edit: lolnope) My Military Advisor is telling me to build Crusaders. Yo dude, you know they can ride cars instead of horses? Also why the swords when we have rifles? 3 cities SHs. HippoRegiusNord dye (d) to Syracuse: 174g. That’s… disappointing. TarenteNord silk (d) to Rome: 656g. Lugnudum spice (d) to Brundisium: 112g. Teothuiacan spice (d) To Byzance: 54g. Utique cloth (d) to SéleucideSud: 120g. K, cathedrals seem to have unbugged, they are now contenting 4 citizens as intended. That’s weird. (Postgame edit: Refer to post 15something of this thread.)If I add colosseums, they can celebrate to size 12 and no unrest, but I’m not sure if it’s actually worth so close to the end. Should definitely have sent most of my vans to Rome as nd to get better arrows tho. AurelianorumSud salt (nd) to Rome: 220g. Véies wine (d) to Césaraugusta: 85g. At least Véies is producing 80 beakers now. Ravenne wool (d) to CaesareaSud: 108g. CaesareaSud gems (d) to Delhi: 360g. Beaker box not quite there! Scientists rehired in Rome to keep it safe. Still T1L0S9.

    1120 AD: Leadership > Tactics > Machinery. Now up to 8 SHs. HippoRegiusNord spice (d) to Hispalis: 260 (or 360) gold. SéleucideSud wool (d) to Cumes: 140g. Lugnudum copper (d) to Babylone: 122g. Cumes dye (d) to JérusalemNord: 156g. Last hut of the map popped; 100g. Hispalis cloth (d) to JérusalemNord: 197g. NicomédieNord hides (nd) to Rome: 214g. T6L0S4 for one turn. Need cash to keep rushing vans and SHs.

    1140 AD: Machinery > Miniaturization not available > Mobile Warfare chosen. Flight only on-path tech available, but I don’t want to suffer the loss of beakers yet. Not done rushing SH’s and I need funds and Colossus arrows. Nice to have good tech. Berlin dye (d) to ArtaxtaSud: 192g. ArtaxtaSud silk (d) to Rome: 868g. JérusalemNord oil (d) to Césaraugusta: 175g.

    1160 AD: Mobile Warfare > Miniaturization. Antium gems (d) to SéleucideSud: 396g. Naples dye (d) to CaesareaSud: 194g. Teothuiacan gems (d) to Delhi: 216g. Césaraugusta oil (d) to Brundisium: 168g. ArtaxtaSud wool (d) to Cumes: 195g. I really wonder if I should have went for CfC and celebrated helpers to size12 and colonies to size8 instead of rushing SHs everywhere. Would have needed aqueducts and colosseums, but the trade bonuses are lackluster even with SH’s and I can’t really rely on van science to give me 2 turns per tech. (Also have no spare cash, so it’s gonna take a while to build that ship…) Given the city spacing, I probably should have. But now it’s too late to change strategy. Should have planned that a bit after Demo and started building the necessary infrastructure then.

    1180 AD: Miniaturization > Computers > Flight. Hippo Regius Nord salt (d) to Suse: 92g. Lutèce dye (d) to AurelianorumSud: 182g. NicomédieNord hides (d) to Persépolis: 176g. Brundisium dye (d) To Tlateloco: 128g. AurelianorumSud dye (d) to Palmyre: 70g. Really should dump them in Rome only. Berlin coal (d) To CaesareaSud: 130g. SETI done in Palmyre. Rome coal (d) to Delhi: 490g. CaeasreaSud hides (nd) to Rome: 229g. Bombay hides (nd) to TarenteNord: 63g. Rome could support 9 extra scientists… I really would like to replay this map a few times in my spare time, try other strats. TarenteNord beads (nd) to Rome: 216g. Give all my techs except Mass Production to Indians. Wait nvm, it’s Persépolis that’s still demanding hides. Giving Gandhi the secret to nukes?... T4L0S6. Total science output at 90% SCI: 2600 beakers, tech costs around 1700 a tech.
    Interturn: Persians develop Medicine.

    1200 AD: Colossus is cancelled as Flight > Radio > SETI PROGRAM > Advanced Flight. Tech costs 1944. Producing 3600 beakers at 100% SCI, just shy of 2techaturn from city science alone… Tenochitlan gold (d) to Ravenne: 154g. Both cities had SH’s. Bombay dye (d) to AurelianorumSud: 200g. T4L0S6, out of vans and need to rush some to prepare for the space ship. I can still get 1tech turns fairly easily. If only…
    Interturn: Indian gov’t overthrown.
  16. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    How can your infrastructure cost without Adam Smith being so low as 55? (Mine with Adam Smith is 201.) Your average cost is less than 2g per city. Are most of your cities real small?
    Ahhhh I see. Many of your cities are size 5-6 and get pacified by Michelangelo and Bach. I definitely agree that it is too late to change your strategy at this point in the game. The right time is during Republic or at the latest starting with Democracy. But you would have needed more than just aqueducts. Without marketplaces it is very hard to get cities to celebrate beyond size 7. Most coastal cities would have needed a harbor as well.
  17. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    I was following Solo's guide pretty scrupulously, with a focus on research speed instead of city pop. Thought about making another push after acquiring Ind, but I thought that being so close to the end, it would delay me too much. So my helper cities stayed size 8 'til the end (80+beakers apiece with SHs and libraries+SETI. Getting good trade routes took a bit longer than you but it happened eventually). Didn't even get to celebrate them post-launch because all my cash was going towards the remaining WoWs.

    I believe I had exactly 8 red heads on a size-8 city (so base D+1 unrest) At this point Temple+Bach+Mikes is exactly enough to pacify everyone. Ultimately had to stick them to size-8 bc I simply did not have enough production to build these trade routes+aqueducts+mkts on top of building the WoW caravans for the SSC.
  18. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Played to +1200 last night. Just discovered Space Flight and fed 11 vans towards Apollo which will be built in +1280. Many of my cities are producing vans and I have a stockpile but no cities have started producing SS parts in anticipation yet.
  19. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    Oof! Gonna be close. But it looks like you got me beat by a few turns if your stockpile holds up. GG.
  20. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Apollo was built as planned and the space race started in +1300. My stockpile of vans was in teens by then and got quickly spent on 2 modules and a component or two. Played till +1460 last night. I was hoping to launch before +1500 but looks like +1510 or +1520 is the earliest I can achieve.

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