GOTM 37: Pre-Game Discussion

[ainwood]

Classic GOTM 37: Iroquois:


For those of you who can remember back when the first Iroquois game was played, it was a horrible start in a hilly area with the only redeeming feature being that there were horses nearby. It was an awful starting location.

It was however, my first ever game on Deity. I managed to do OK, making very good use of my mounted horsemen, finally losing in a space race. If I had played better (a bit more aggressively, making use of artillery), I could possibly have won it.

Well, I thought we might have a little reprise of that game. So we're playing the Iroquois again on Deity, and we're also playing Pangea.

I have given you a slightly better start than we got first time up, and I'll let conquest players have a few extras as well. It won't be easy, but if you think about the game, take advantages of the weaknesses of the various opponents, its not too bad.

Standard Map
Pangaea, 5 billion.
70% Ocean
Normal climate, cool temperature.
Restless barbs.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Hopefully that 'slightly better start' means horses nearby.

 

[Ambiorix]

Looks pretty good already.
First thoughts : settle in place, irrigate and connect the cattle, then connect the fur (with or without chopping), followed by chopping and irrigating the deer.
Or first the deer and then the furs ?
Scout gets the hell out of the starting location, to look for the huts that Ainwood moved a bit further away.
research at minimum (don't know the starting techs by heart).

 

[Roland Ehnström]

Wow, Deity on Pangaea! The tech-rate will be WILD!

As for the start, I think this is one where everyone will agree: Worker W, Settler settle. Then worker irrigates and builds a road.

Then I really can't decide, what's next: Furs or Game? Both those forests need to be chopped, but that takes ages in PTW. Perhaps building an early second Worker is a good idea?

-- Roland

 

[Megalou]

Expansionist & Religious.

Great! A game that could bring in anything between 150 and 10000 points! This will be fun.

I think I will probably build a granary. But it has to be a quick one or too much land will be taken. Had the level been Sid I would not. May try worker first then granary. But it all depends on the research:
expensive first tech ---> 40 turn research and heavy luxury tax if needed. No warriors while building granary would require lots of lux.
Cheap first tech ---> max research and a need to keep luxury down.

I will have to check the price of The Wheel in order to decide. The Wheel could be a good choice because it's not a starting tech for anyone, not the first AI choice and actually good to have.

 

[King Of America]

Pardon me for going against the crowd, but what about settling NW? Gives you access to at least 4 grass squares and with all the forest, shields are easy to come by.

It's Deity, so we'll want to road the fur ASAP, but I agree with Roland that chopping takes a while--I'd rather being irrigating/mining that deer, although that might have to wait till the second worker--it's a long process otherwise.

Sounds like our nearby opponents won't be Xerxes-level. Maybe they'll all be expansionist like us. If so, instead of us building scouts and chasing after huts they will beat us to, maybe we should build a bunch of Archers, demand the techs they pop to end a war or two, and save the Mounted Warriors for a little later.

 

[Roland Ehnström]

Pardon me for going against the crowd, but what about settling NW? Gives you access to at least 4 grass squares and with all the forest, shields are easy to come by.

But you lose the river (free aqueduct) and you lose the ability to directly irrigate the cow.

-- Roland

 

[eldar]

Settling NW isn't on the River.
A Worker first looks like a good idea:
(1) It'll keep pop down a bit longer, and if we're at minimum research, the extra pop won't matter at all. Less pop = less need for lux = more gold for trading later on. Only downside is it'll be a little longer before the first Settler, which at Deity....
(2) There are two forests to chop, and at PtW 10 turns/chop is time-consuming.

Basically, aim to get the factory up-and-running ASAP.

But Deity... yikes?! Pangaea... ZOIKS!?! Especially as I'm one of many who don't 'qualify' for Conquest-level.

Neil.

 

[klarius]

I think the best approach is just the standard
Water and road the cow. Then chop the deer.
Build one scout (or warrior) then granary.
Granary will complete before the chop so you get a quick settler after that.
Then a few workers and if you aren't dead by then you are on the road to victory. . Maybe.
No chance for anything more than min research first on that course. Maybe even no research at all.

 

[Dynamic]

Many games we are waiting for Deity and it happen!
Settle on place. I think to build the Warrior first. Research wheel or none. First irrigate cow.

 

[King Of America]

Roland and eldar--of course, you're right. Guess I didn't see the river for the tress. I've got to stop trying to mix Civ and work

 

[Renata]

Whoo, expansionist is a great trait for Deity Pangaea. Early contacts are the key to keeping up in tech. (Cash-flow helps, too ). I love the Iroquois, I must say.

I'll have to think for a while on the best way to utilize the quite nice-looking start. I'll probably get it wrong, but it's fun to think about.

@ Megalou -- Japan does get the Wheel as a starting tech. They're the only PTW civ that does, though.

edit: anyone consider the Monarchy route for tech research? Mysticism at min, Poly at max, then Monarchy at best possible? Or maybe even better -- buy mysticism as soon as it comes available, then go Poly at min & Monarchy at best possible. We can easily afford more than one government shift as a religious civ, and having Monarchy earlier than Republic would probably be available would be sweet. Poly might even be a monopoly, if we get lucky with AI research paths.

yet another edit; I'm on a roll. Forest and furs at the equator means it's probably a cold world. There could be tundra-buried civs not too far away to make good candidates for early stompage.

Renata

 

[Megalou]

@ Megalou -- Japan does get the Wheel as a starting tech. They're the only PTW civ that does, though.

True. I haven't had Japan for a neighbour since I was just a baby tyrant so I'd forgotten.

 

[chunkymonkey]

I've been really looking forward to this, since it will be my first Deity game. I think I'm probably going to have to be very lucky with the early RNG in order to win, but as long as I can get a good rolling start and a perfectly timed Mountie GA I might be able to survive until the late Middle Ages!

Think I'm going to head straight for Monarchy along with Renata, after working out where those precious horsies are of course...

 

[horragoth]

It would be my 1st Deity PTW game and I am looking forward to it. Can someone hint me how much difference is between PTW Deity and C3C Demigod? I have some experience with the later. Thanks.

 

[MikeH]

Hopefully that 'slightly better start' means horses nearby.

You've got a cow, a deer and a luxury and you want horses as well? Some people want everything .

This will be my first Deity game on PTW, so I don't hold out any great hopes, but I'll give it a shot. Like everyone else I'll move the worker to the cow and settle in place unless something stupendous is revealed. The scout will go to the hill for a bit of a look round.

Oh, and thanks to Ainwood for turning the grid on this time .

 

[CruddyLeper]

LOVELY start - I don't think I played the Iroquois game at the time but downloaded it later and yes, it was a stinker.

I think the first move is the Scout E then S to uncover some more tiles and perhaps move the Settler SE to give a Coastal start... then again maybe that beach is a lake (not saltwater) in which case settling at start would be better.

If I move the settler, I'll chop at the start position and go for a granary.

First tech - I guess it's a choice between The Wheel and Mysticism. On Pangaea probably Mysticism... then again as Aztecs likely in the game, The Wheel would let the Mounted Warriors get mounted quicker.

Looks great. Looking forward to it.

 

[El Communisto]

Hm... Looks like fun. Scout up to the hill to make sure there isn't anything insanely cool around. Plonk the settler where he is, and go irrigate/road the cow, then the furs.

I think I'll give this one a shot. Regent is still a tought fight for me, so I'm probably in the running for the always wonderful red ambulance.

EC

 

[Xevious]

I think the first move is the Scout E then S to uncover some more tiles and perhaps move the Settler SE to give a Coastal start... then again maybe that beach is a lake (not saltwater) in which case settling at start would be better.

Actually, I think those are hills down there, not coast. Look at the colour of the north hill. If it was coast, I think we'd see it on the edges of the forest.

 

[Tone]

I'm probably in the running for the always wonderful red ambulance.

I think that the competition for this award is going to be fierce this month

It's a great starting position though and from my point of view I want a fair bit of space between me and the other civs to help avoid early conflicts. If I've got a bit of time to develop, I might just survive long enough to see foreign infantry cross my borders and praying that they are only using my lands to get to someone else.