Gotm 39 Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

[toller pretzl]

Nice game, almost a century faster than me.

I'm curious, were you able to flip a barb city early on and which one(s)? Did you conquer America and the Mongols really early? Where were your 3 legendary cities?

Berlin founded in 3970 by the pigs and marble. I gave this city hermitage because it had the worst production of the 3 cities. I figured that the second city would build its cathedrals faster, and giving Berlin hermitage would even things out a bit. With hermitage Berlin was by far the strongest city though. Size 11 eventually.

Washington became my third cultural city. Bad food situation of course, but with all the river grassland cottages as well as the wines and the sheep it got to size 14. Not too bad.
My initial warrior rush at Washington failed. 4 warriors against two, 3 losing 1 winning, then the next turn my promoted remaining warrior had 72.8 but lost. However 3 few turns later I came at it again with an archer and a warrior, and Washington then had only one defending warrior, so I took it in the second inning (2410 BC). Not brilliant planning, but thrilling.

Karakorum became my second cultural city. Best site on our continent wasn't it ? My initial archer rush at Karakorum failed, killing only one of the two archers there and costing me five archers. However the second archer rush was succesfull (1540 BC). More thrilling play. I gave Karakorum cottages on all the grasslands, and of course developed the pigs and iron. That way it got to size 14, and I alternated the remaining 3 pop between plainshill-mines and artists.

After the wars I had 3 reasonable cities and 3 workers to improve them. My next plans were to found a city by the stone for the Pyramids, then a GP farm by the fish and wheat. All looked bright. So bright in fact, that I decided to send the worker from Washington to the stone city site in advance - and it walked right into a barb warrior. The next few turns I played in shock. My reasoning had been: I can see a barb warrior there, surely there won't be another barb warrior two tiles away. Faulty reasoning of course. It was especially bad because I had a scout at the time elsewhere on the map that could have made sure the workers path was safe.

I did found the planned GP farm, but I also decided to build National Epic in Karakorum, a city that already had some GPP from wonders and was going to have more. This was maybe not wise, but it worked out fairly well. I got 11 GA, 2 GP, 1 GE (Sistine Chapel in Berlin) and a GM at the end but that was expected, it was my only way to get another great person. I was never in Organized Religion, went straight for Pacifism.
Bombed the GA :
Berlin 2
Karakorum 3
Washington 6

Saxon flipped in 1142 AD. It was immediately conquered though by the barb swords and axes roaming next to it. Then it flipped again in 1184 AD, and this time it stayed mine. Carib flipped in 1298 AD, enabling me to trade resources for money.

Got Hinduism from the mongols, founded Confuc, Tao and Christianity. Built 12 cathedrals.

 

[azzaman333]

Slow, self voted diplo in 1888. Settled on the marble, chariot rushed Washington, killed Mongolia with a lot of catapults, filled in time for a millenium, razed away the French and English and voted myself to win because I couldn't be bothered killing Asoka or Izzy.

Was hoping a base score of just under 7k might somehow win me a cow, but I guess not.

 

[bestje]

you can vote yourself a win in vanilla? i've been playing bts too long!
what date did you get Toller? you seem to have gone for a similar strategy to me
edit: found it i wasn't looking properly. thats quite a bit faster than mine, it looks like the difference is how fast you finished off the AIs and was able to start going for culture.

 

[jesusin]

I don't understand the "cold...very cold...freezing cold!" line at all, because it's nothing like an ice age map.

Well... you know? I live in Spain. Anything under 30º Celsius is cold enough for me.

you can vote yourself a win in vanilla? i've been playing bts too long!

You can vote yourself a win in BTS too, if you have vassals.

 

[Deckhand]

Thanks Jesusin, for a very interesting game.

Did anyone try nuclear weapons to melt the ice? - didn’t think of this
Did anyone try helicopters? - yes, ran a world builder test! they won’t enter ice or mountains
Did anyone look for parachuters in the civilopedia? checked CFC BtS changes included paratroopers
Did anyone try submarines? planned to use them but game didn’t go that late
Did anyone try airports? likewise, that was the plan
Did anyone try HE in the East? yes

Settled with Marble in BFC. Second city grabbed horses from Roosevelt. Third city at nice spot on NE coast. It flipped Saxon.

Plan was to conquer my landmass and then go East. Saxon Troops conquered Carib. (didn’t understand why trade was working until reading this thread today). Built Caravels and discovered ice barrier. Built one in Saxon to explore East and get circumnavigation.
Thought about Culture (Jesusin after all) or Space. But I could do that without the flipped Barbarian city. So, in honor of the map, plan was conquest or domination. Saxon got Heroic Epic and I built macemen, catapults, galleons, etc there while conquering homeland. Took a while to conquer Mongols and Americans. When homeland finally secured I said, "what am I waiting for?”. Upgraded maces to rifles and conquered India and then Spain for the Domination win.

 

[damnrunner]

Interesting diplo question.

It would be possible to play the game and never contact the civs on the other side of the ice barrior.

If this had happened how would UN voting work. could you summon a vote of civs you have not contacted?

 

[Skink123]

This was my first GOTM - and I have learnt more about Civ than ever before.

I started very traditionally. Settled in place. Bad city but built pyramids by chopping and maths. Flipped the southern barbarian city. Traded a little. Got a tech advantage by trade.

Then took out GK with maces and cats. Took out Roos after that. Only then did I build a caravel to discover the trap.

Having done that I settled into a game of conquest - but not by building from my one city (I just wasn't that adventurous). I did it with airports and panzers and bombers agaisnt rifles no less. It was a very dull finish. I think I lost only one troop whilst I subdued the English and French.

Final score - about 14000 - and I am not going to bother submitting.

---

I was intrigued by the spoilers. I never even thought of settling on the marble - but having done so I proved you could rush both GK and Roos and have the world to yourself. I played again - for experiment.

Then I build the iron/fish city and built oracle for a successful CS Slingshot, parthenon, that theology thing, and collosus.

I built pyramids in GKs city. I popped an engineer for Great Library which I built in that two fish and copper city.

Only problem. Saxon did not flip. Couldn't get it to flip. Had huge amounts of culture and it would not flip. I kept popping prophets (against the odds) so I founded three religions and had three temples. Never popped an artist so could not do a great work to flip city.

The city eventually flipped - in about 1520 on the way to about a 1750 space race. It had STONEHENGE in it. You need an awful lot of culture to flip stonehenge.

When it flipped I had artiliery versus french longbows and English maces. It could have been an easy win too. I will not submit because it was a replay and I cheated...

Now before this I would never have dreamed of playing this way.

Learnt a lot.

Skink

 

[Htadus]

What do you do with a GM you keep around for a trade trip just to findout there is no way to transport him to a forign city? Luckily a GP came along as we were building the UN to fire off the first and only GA.

I abandoned a very well planned game when on turn two decided to rush Kahn and never got back in to the plan. Sadly it was a poorly played ie, got Philo from Oracle but never used Pasifism or adopted a religion, built the NE in 16th century and same goes for the FPalace. Still had a decent Diplo date in late 17th century.

Ended up killing off Napolion also thinking I will get Vicky as my oponenet and thought my best buddy Asoka and good buddy Issy would vote for me. Asoka voted for Vicky with +9 to me and +6 to vicky. But in the Diplo vote it was Asoka who ran against me and Vicky voted for me. All I needed was 6 votes. I should have gone and taken Asokas Pyramids but decided to be nice and gave him everything he asked for and then he go vote for Vicky. The Indian Royalty sticking with the bloody British crown even to this day. Commonwealth.

@ jesusin: The Barb city idea was great and had it not been for the pregame discussion I would not have settled in place. So my hats off to all of you claimed to be able to flip a barb city and thanks. As for the Ocean barrier, that was an attempt to prove that Gyathaar is actually kinder map maker. Ocean barrier is a poor concept even though there is a frozen sea in our own planets north pole, but that one is still navigable by Adventurers. You could have made it a maze in my opinion. So I can see why Cactus Pete felt upset. All his plans were a waste. As for me since I got a flip early I could have gone for any of the VC's but for the person who could not flip, it limited their VC's. That is not in the spirit of the game.

I had 3 religions in my side of the world and at 900 AD I almost went cultural but my wonders were in 4 diferent cities and Kara had none. So I decided to get in line with my original plan 5000 years late.

 

[jesusin]

Ocean barrier ... You could have made it a maze in my opinion. So I can see why Cactus Pete felt upset.

Point taken.

...but for the person who could not flip, it limited their VC's. That is not in the spirit of the game.

There were 2 barb cities. In one of my test games barbs got SH, I just flipped the other city.
Why would anyone be unable to flip one of them?

 

[Skink123]

I have now done four tests of the beginning. When I settled in place and chopped a wonder I flipped the barb city.

When I settled on the marble and then the iron and fish city I could not flip. Barbs built stonehenge in Saxon and a wonder in the other city. Completely stuffed.

Its pretty odd that the barbs built two wonders.

Also - funny that the tests had very different religious outcomes. In one GK founded Hinduism. That meant he had 40 culture when I got there with the arrows. I made it - but the extra culture made it tough.

J

 

[Erkon]

Contender Save.
I was going for the Cow and accidentally went over the Dom limit in 2011. I really have to learn how to maximize score. I had lots of Wonders, high Pop, close to the Dom limit, and way ahead in techs and my final score was ~10K.

I accidentally passed the dom limit in 1845 AD

Score slightly over 8k. Rats.

I look forward to check Gosha and Jeffas games once the results are published, since I got a mediocre 1280 AD Biology through Liberalism. Me needs to learn more how to maximize research up to 500 AD.

 

[Htadus]

There were 2 barb cities. In one of my test games barbs got SH, I just flipped the other city.
Why would anyone be unable to flip one of them?

It would happen to someone who did not relize the the need to flip and decide to put a city at least one tile too far from the barb city. I was able to flip the south Barb city because I built next to it, but by poorly placing my north coastal city, even with the Oracle, monument and a Library, and a university, the barbs refused to flip and had 50% culture defence.

I can easily see how someone (me an year ago) would settle 1NW and then place two cities to block Mongol and American expansion. I usually like to place cities 4-5 tiles from each other since my games are focused on long term. Also I not build cities with too many undevelopable tiles in the fat cross. So if I were blocking Kahn instead of rushing, then my city would likely have been placed close to the iron and gems. There goes my chances of flipping. Like I said earlier, had it not been to the Pregame thread, I would have .......hummm actually would have gone to space without ever knowing the rest of the world oh so lonely

Anyhow, I do encorage you to be adventurous with the map design as you did. I think you intended to give a challenge to the top players and Bravo for that since I am sure Gosha190, Conquistador 63 , Lexad and the like apprciated the challenge. But please remember, you are an accomplished player and many can not come to the needed realization as early in the game as you will. So please provide an out for newbies and QN's (trademark belong to Adama). Sorry Adama, I have been wanting to use the line .

Lastly jesusin, thank you for caring enough to take the time to test the game before releasing it. But play it once while pretending you are a QN. Anyways I do not think (I hope) you did this to penalize anyone but may have done just that inadvertantly.

 

[ZPV]

I just wasn't expecting to meet the mongols so soon. As we were on Noble, I immediately changed build to a warrior and tech to Archery and was hoping to capture an empty capital, as they start with a scout. I tracked closely his hammer graph and he had 1hpt all the way (working a 3f tile). But to my surprise, when I attacked t13 there was already a warrior sitting there. How come, if a warrior costs 22h on Epic? Was it a world-builder trick or do I ignore the basics about this game?

The AI starts with some free hammers in its first military unit.
Probably to stop you from walking into its Capital undefended.

 

[Gosha190]

I accidentally passed the dom limit in 1845 AD

too early, though... seems you played carelessly or you have not enough experience in avoiding domi. It's usual situation when player gift AI cities back to avoid domi. Will hope for the best Lexad has 3 attempts for cow because he is too lazy



MAP DISCUSSION
While playing, Jeffa changed VC from domi/conq to space because of the map feature. It will be nice if he will win.

 

[Gosha190]

I look forward to check Gosha and Jeffas games once the results are published, since I got a mediocre 1280 AD Biology through Liberalism. Me needs to learn more how to maximize research up to 500 AD.

my game was unsuccessful - GP fail, missed pyrs due to barbs attack, late Oxford .. hmm - as I remember it was built around 400AD.

About Jeffa's game. There is no secret - he got Oxford before 1AD.


ERKON

Spoiler :

you can divert yourself by playing OT4E's map - nice map!

http://www.civfanatics.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=8750

there are 2 saves in first post(with exchange between AI and withuot one).

 

[srad]

About Jeffa's game. There is no secret - he got Oxford before 1AD.

What? 1AD? What a insane high research rate!
Gosha190 or Jeffa: Can you give me some insight how such a fast research is possible and what did you do till 1AD? Thank you! (Cottaging? Lot of workers? Warrior rush?)

My timeline was:

BC:
2230 Pottery
1030 Killed GK with Chariots
940 Killed Roosverlt with Chariots
700 CoL
640 CS slingshot

AD:
185 Education
200 Pyramids
don't remember Oxford date (can't see it in the standard log)
ended 1780 in Space

 

[Gosha190]

srad
I'll ask jeffa for a spoiler up to 1AD. He finished SR before you a little ))

PS common prescription is: you need 6 cities ready to build university by slavery or chopping, then you need early CS (jeffa got it in 1400BC), you need a couple of GS. One - for academy, rest - to speed up hard teches like philo and education, maybe paper. If you are playing by philosophical leader you need PYRs ASAP. So.. it's extremely simple

Usually the most hard part of Oxford rush is GOT 6 CITIES!

 

[srad]

srad
I'll ask jeffa for a spoiler up to 1AD. He finished SR before you a little ))

I suppose so

srad
PS common prescription is: you need 6 cities ready to build university by slavery or chopping, then you need early CS (jeffa got it in 1400BC), you need a couple of GS. One - for academy, rest - to speed up hard teches like philo and education, maybe paper. If you are playing by philosophical leader you need PYRs ASAP. So.. it's extremely simple

Usually the most hard part of Oxford rush is GOT 6 CITIES!

I know the 6 cities, I know the university rushing, I know that the Pyramids are great with a philo leader ... but I'm just not that fast Probably I need more finetuning.
And this is the interesting point for me. I decided to first take my two neighbours out with chariots and than concentrate on research. So it would be nice to see what Jeffa did. Building the Pryramids much earlier?

srad
I'll ask jeffa for a spoiler up to 1AD.

That would be kind! Thanx!

 

[Erkon]

too early, though... seems you played carelessly or you have not enough experience in avoiding domi. It's usual situation when player gift AI cities back to avoid domi. Will hope for the best Lexad has 3 attempts for cow because he is too lazy

Yes, about 200 hundred turns early!

I was getting greedy and kept Madrid, Barcelona and Delhi. But they all got up to 60% real quick. I gifted a couple of cities to Napoleon (once I was at 609 tiles = ~63.9%), and planned to gift him more cities once I was close to limit. But then he was not interested to receive more, probably due to his upkeep figures.

Of course I should have razed all cities on the third continent. The 75 pop gain cost me about 50 pop in other gifted cities, so it was very stupid. I was running 100% research, with mostly scientists, and a few merchants (in city with Wall Street). Berlin was building Explorers (+100 gpt), and I ran State Property. I had ~4k bpt, so each FT took 4 turns (do you get the +20% prerequisite bonus for FT?). Most cities had reached the pop limit, although I could have squeezed in perhaps another 100 pop to fully utilize the tiles.

I guess I would have ended with another 100 pop and 50 FT. I've no idea how much that's worth, but i guess I would have ended above 10k points, instead of the 8.2k...

Yes, I was playing carelessly. Got a bit bored after 30 hours of play

And yes, I remember Lexad's attempts for the Cow. I snatched it once (on the Oasis map), which resulted in both of us completing the eptathlete in the next game.

Anyway, this game was an experiment to find out if playing peaceful up till the AD years is clever with no slaving. I guess both options were wrong

 

[Gosha190]

do you get the +20% prerequisite bonus for FT?

I have no info on your question. You can simply check it in WB, or in your game