GOTM 42: Pre-Game Discussion

[Nata]

I tried couple of test games on this scenario.
On my map I happened to be closely surrounded by 6 neighbours and the last one had another continet all to himself.

I tried settling NW all the time, but there was no river SW on my map - it was a lake. A river SW would change everything, of course.

Well, the 1st 3 times I tried to expand at max, get out the settler ASAP, build granary and other such foolishness. I was beaten by some neighbour as soon as city#2 was built.
You could get max of 1 settler and 2 warriors at the year of 2950BC: 50 shields max (2 chops + 20 from city center + 10 from wine hill starting from turn 10) in 20 turns it takes to grow to size 3. Apparently 2 warriors wasn't enough to hold back the neighbours.

The 4th time I desided to build military 1st and then expand. I worked the forest instead of a lake to get 2 warriors out in 8 turns, and used the chop to hurry an archer. The next chop hurried a settler which also built an archer, while Rome built another archer.
All the time I was bee-lining to Republic at Min, hoping to trade for Pottery from neighbors (got it from British). I got Writing 1st and traded it around. I also got a lot of cash for upgrades.

The the stack of 1st archer and 2nd warrior killed a Egyptian warrior escorting a settler nearby - 2 slaves to work the wine. Egypt sent a stack of 3 warriors and an archer my way, and our stacks met and annihillated. After that, (maybe 4 turns of war) Egypt gave me peace plus all his techs and gold, and 1 slave.

Rinse and repeat with the next neighbour - Russians, with 4 archers this time. Rome became quite productive with worked tiles - archer in 4 turns and warrior in 2, and it had barracks. More techs, 4 slaves, 1 town autorazed. Meanwhile Iron was clamed by a 3rd town, and Rome switched to warriors.

I upgraded 10 legions before 1000BC and turned on England. Despotic GA, but who cares - that was the only way to survive. At 750BC - London captured, another city given as peace bribe, 2 cities autorazed. Total 8 cities (2 British) in Roman empire, 10+ slaves and strong military, ready to cripple Germany next.

The morale of the story: if I go NW, I'll crank out military 1st and worry about settlers/granaries later. I'll work forests a lot before they are chopped. I'll forgo Pottery and do cash-building Writing at min instead.

But if SW is a river... Dunno. Or if we are alone on a continent...

 

[budweiser]

Nata- That's good stuff. Hence ainwood's comment "who says the iron matters?"

Alot depends on who the neighbors are, but a beligerent republic bee-line sounds good.

 

[solenoozerec]

OK - I have posted a screenshot using normal graphics, rather than the sn00py's terrain. Basically, I thought the "oasis" might have caused a bit of confusion.

Tequila lux also disappeared

 

[Xerol]

And for those who are not used to sn00py's terrain, here it is in vanilla terrain:

Ok, so I'm starting to think maybe first move should be Worker 1S. See if the tile 2S is fresh or saltwater; if it's saltwater we've got a nice bridge we can use, and if it's fresh well then you've got a nice gold-generating city. I'm only thinking of two possibilities right now: Settle 1S and get a settler out as fast as possible(possibly with chops after warrior build(s)), or settle around the lake, moving 2 or 3 turns. And option 2 doesn't look that good.

Chances are, however, with this start there's a great 20k location not too far away. I'm 99% certain I'm getting the conquest award for last month so it's either Diplo or 20k this time - Diplo would require staying ahead in tech at least to the extent that I could pre-build for the UN and not have to worry about the 25% land requirement; 20k means war for leaders(although not too many too early - late finish date is going to be the key to this, and of course preventing other people from winning first, so I'm going to have to slow the tech pace a bit).

EDIT: Ooops, doesn't look like 1S has any forest. I thought there was forest to the SE somewhere.

 

[Markus5]

In my test runs, I was able to make a pretty good go of things. Research pottery first.

I settled NW, then built barracks with the help of one chop. Then, 3 warriors. Then, granery with the help of another chop. The worker roaded and mined after each chop. Then, a settler. He settled at RCP 3 near the wine (with a warrior) and built a worker. The worker roaded and mined the wine. The first worker roaded to the second city and helped work the wine and the second city. The second city built a barracks and began building archers. The first city (meanwhile) was building warrior warrior settler.

I did this a couple of times.

Expanding out to 5 cities and fast research to republic seemed to work. There were two barb encampments in the area, but technically I didn't know where they were, so I never dispersed them. I let the barbs attack when they could. They seemed cautious, and 2 veteran warriors in each city was sufficient to defend against their attacks. The second city was only producing veteran archers and workers, so I had a few archers to go on a barb hunt.

When I could make contact with other civs, I could easily trade for all my missing techs + gold to fund research. But, in my test map, Rome was rather isolated. I hope that the real thing has a few neighbors to trade with and to take some barb attacks, too.

I think I'll go back to the editor and add a close neighbor or two. I'd like to experiment with early contact and maybe early wars.

 

[killercane]

I just wanted to point out that some might want to peruse the old GOTM 16 Emperor Rome game thread, probably the best GOTM IMHO with the puzzle and latin names for everything. As for this one Im thinking 20k (youve gotta love those expensive libraries and temples) if we find some coast, undecided otherwise, with a healthy helping of archer rush to harass settler pairs. I put my money on being close to others if the start is indeed as dreary as it looks.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I put my money on being close to others if the start is indeed as dreary as it looks.

I hope so. All these test games got me skeered about the barbs. I'm not used to providing a ton of MP's in cities to defend against them. Typically you don't have to worry about the AI, but who knows with this one.

 

[budweiser]

The cities should be OK. I am worried about all my hard worked improvements. Those barbs will pillage. I'm glad that you cannot pillage a lake!

I am also worried about guarding with just warriors when my settlers are walking around. And I must remeber to use extreme restraint in attacking any barbs with my warriors. This game will benefit from some early archers. I hope the RNG is kind.

 

[Offa]

Hey, offa, you could advertise it in your sig...

Ummm. I think you are right.

I have thrown in a link to my lovely spreadsheet too.

 

[MeteorPunch]

is anyone settling on the spot?

 

[Niklas]

Moving 3 turns is really tough on emperor. Settling in any closer visible location is worse. I will not decide where to settle until I've taken at least one scouting step with my worker, probably south or west.
This will be a tough one...

 

[MOTH]

is anyone settling on the spot?

I'm considering it. I need a fast game as I'm off to vacation in May and I tend to play slowly. I will likely build warrior>settler>warrior>warrior>settler if I've got the shields calculated right. I will research to The Wheel first off unless Japan is in the game and my 2nd or 3rd city will try and settler near horses. After the Wheel I'll either take a min run to HBR if WC is available or I will head to IronWorking.

I'm also thinking about a loose 5CC to speed play and could throw out the first 2 cities settled in favor of better locations.

 

[AlanH]

I'm thinking setting where we stand is not a bad idea. Unless a singe worker move in any available direction could reveal anything worth moving for (unlikely) I don't think I'm going on a wild goose chase at Emperor hoping for a better location.

Cracker's mantra still holds good: "Move only if you can see a clear advantage". There seems to be a trend towards "Move, dammit! There's got to be somewhere better than this!"

 

[MeteorPunch]

If I understand the graphics correctly, there is water 2 south which means we might be 1 tile away from a coast start.

 

[AlanH]

If I understand the graphics correctly, there is water 2 south which means we might be 1 tile away from a coast start.

One tile away from a coast start is only an issue if you are going to have a lot of coastal tiles in your city radius and no harbour to make them productive. In this situation none of the southern water will be within 21 tile radius of the start location.

 

[MeteorPunch]

One tile away from a coast start is only an issue if you are going to have a lot of coastal tiles in your city radius and no harbour to make them productive. In this situation none of the southern water will be within 21 tile radius of the start location.

True. I'm now thinking it's best to move NW and settle. If there is coast down there, this will allow more area for a couple southern cities.

 

[Abegweit]

Northwest is surely better and I am moving at least that far.

 

[AlanH]

I'm betting there are two city locations on that southern coast at radius 3.x from the start. That'll do me. Moving NW doesn't guarantee you any more.

EDIT: BTW, there are no choke points to settle. Anywhere you park in the visible area leaves a route east/west, south of the lake.

 

[Abegweit]

The issue is not where to place your city ring... it's way too early to decide that. NW is just a better spot since there appears to be grass further to the north.

 

[AlanH]

Sorry Abegweit, I was responding to MeteorPunch's point about coastal locations. I agree there appears to be grass north, and I leave open the possibility of going that way *if* a worker move gives me any extra visibility.