GOTM 50 - Final Spoiler

Megalou · Feb 1, 2006

@Niklas,
It's understandable. Milking on a big map is evil. Unless there is a lurker as crazy as me it seems I'll get a cow. It's a lot of work for a small digital image on the Internet. :crazyeye:

I bore it out until 1965. Then I became sloppy and strode over the limit. Strangely enough, MapStat didn't warn, neither before nor after the last turn. I should have looked at CivAssist, which says -1 when MapStat says zero.

Some silly facts:

Highest number of citizens: 3873
Cities: 228
195 hospitals and nearly as many Mass Transits (Many small cities are much better in the long run) :sad:

I didn't kill off all the other civs. The Ottomans were excellent funders. The downside was that they also researched pretty quickly. When they had only Robotics left and 8 spaceparts (mid 20th century) I revolted to monarchy and moved in with 7 MA armies. I nuked first and then razed with the armies; really messy. There was a culture balance at our common border so oddly enough I only razed towns behind the frontier.

This modern warfare gave me some new experiences. I killed off around 150 Ottoman units the first turn, getting 3leaders the same turn. I also got some use of the Strategic Missile Defense for the first time. It stopped 7 ICBMs on the very first turn! No nukes got through.

I estimated 2 more turns of war when I tripped over the limit.

Firaxis score was 19473.

Now for the looong story. But I've lost my notes for the last century; my computer often freezes when I exit civ3. I doubt anyone will actually read all this, but there are summaries every century (starting 1300 AD) that you may want to skim through:

Spoiler :

What an ordeal! No way I'm doing this again, so I must say it's a bit of a relief that Niklas picked up another challenge. (Nicely played btw.)

I may vote green the rest of my life: pollution was awful. I learnt to find most of the older cities with unique names, but places like "New Najran 2" just don't stick. And if you automate you lose growth.

Glad this is over.

Niklas · Feb 1, 2006

@Megalou: This may be a bit premature, after all Mwoimp said he'd join the cow challenge. Haven't seen any spoilers from him though, so here goes: Let me be the first to congratulate you on your new shiny Eptathlon. :worship:

Megalou said:
I may vote green the rest of my life: pollution was awful.

Just like in the real world then - don't you already? :eek:

Appologies for the political angle, couldn't resist it. :mischief:

I found this to be a really fun map to play, in particular with all the back-references. And despite all, it didn't really deter me from a milking game. Hopefully GotM52 is a small map though... but first, Conquest vs Redbad in GotM51! That's a challenge I should be able to stick with to the end! :crazyeye:

Paul#42 · Feb 1, 2006

Megalou said:
I may vote green the rest of my life: pollution was awful. I learnt to find most of the older cities with unique names, but places like "New Najran 2" just don't stick. And if you automate you lose growth.

Sounds like you had trouble locating poluted tiles?
I used the alert message of CivAssist2 to clean up:

Had a worker of a cleaning squad ready, clicked on the number in CivAssist2 Alertview which directed me to the tile, pressed 'j' to move the cleaning squad there and 6(-18)x <shift-c> - done. Of course that's no fun with more than 5 polluted tiles per turn...

Megalou · Feb 1, 2006

Thanks Niklas.

Paul 42, But if you don't enter the city screen and click the tile, it is left unworked after the clean-up! The whole procedure is not quite as simple as one would want, to put it mildly. I had up to 16 pollutions before mass transits, with no factories.

civ_steve · Feb 1, 2006

You guys are giving me some hope! Domination in 720 AD. Submitted with just 1 hour to go, and at this point, I'm glad I made the effort.

Kuningas · Feb 1, 2006

Predator
To bad no detailed notes. Ansars are really fast units. Although I started a bit late conquest went smoothly. No need for Cavalry AI defences were so thin.

190AD minimap and military forces.

The year of destruction following civs:
Aztecs 10AD With Swords
Germans 250AD With Ansar Warriors
Indians 280AD With Ansar Warriors
Persians 310AD With Ansar Warriors
English 440AD With Ansar Warriors
Koreans 500AD With Ansar Warriors
Ottomans 510AD With Ansar Warriors
Russians 540AD With Ansar Warriors
Iroquois 540AD With Ansar Warriors
Zulus 550AD With Ansar Warriors
Carthagians 550AD With Ansar Warriors

Conquest win in 560AD. Jason 10500.

Paul#42 · Feb 1, 2006

Megalou said:
Paul 42, But if you don't enter the city screen and click the tile, it is left unworked after the clean-up! The whole procedure is not quite as simple as one would want, to put it mildly. I had up to 16 pollutions before mass transits, with no factories.

For that issue you could have a spare worker on the cleaning squad which stays focused after clean-up so you can go to the city screen immediately. If you do not juggle the group, this could also be a slave (or warrior, whatever)...

Niklas · Feb 1, 2006

Whoa, there goes my hopes of a medal in two swift strikes! :eek:

Looks like I'm headed for another honorable fourth place...

@civ_steve: Great work! I was afraid you would beat me with that great start of yours. Care to share your score? In any case let me be the first to congratulate you too on your new eptathlon! :worship:

Wow, two new eptathletes in the same game.

Megalou · Feb 1, 2006

Paul#42 said:
For that issue you could have a spare worker on the cleaning squad which stays focused after clean-up so you can go to the city screen immediately. If you do not juggle the group, this could also be a slave (or warrior, whatever)...

I think I may know what you are talking about, although I think I would need to try the CivAssist alert. It's all academic, I assure you: I have wiped my last goo.

civ_steve · Feb 1, 2006

Thanks, Niklas! That's a rather close shave

The early conquest victories by Klarius and Kuningas are very impressive, especially considering the length of crappy terrain to go over! And :goodjob:

to Megalou for a great milk run! (I agree, the pollution due to population is a killer with no good counter; you could set the governer up to reset the citizen but he's real stupid about your specialists and will cost you several %'s of score!)

Early on my plan was to occupy the territory of 8 of the 12 civs in the game (me and 7 other) and build Temples for cultural expansion, then capture several cities of a 9th civ to get me to Domination. The civs untouched would be Korea, Carthage and England, and the Zulu were planned to be my last civ, primarily because they hadn't connected Iron while the English had Iron and Horses for a long time.

I have to thank the Iroqouis for putting me on a good path. They started an early war, which allowed me to gain Horses and allies against him; that got his GA started and allowed him to complete Pyramids. I knew I had to get that ASAP, so as soon as I had enough horsemen to take Salamanca I redeclared (my only early agreement that I broke). By 150 BC when I entered the MidAges, I had also gained a GL (DaveMcW) that I stashed away for a future SunTzu's.

The AI was terrible at connecting resources. Since I had also started a few side wars (Germany allied vs India; Koreans and Zulu vs England and the aforementioned Ottomans and Aztecs vs Iroqouis) I felt most AI would be really weak, which would extend the usefulness of Horsemen against them. After taking the Iroqouis down to just 1 city, I started on the Ottomans.

I learned Feudalism in 70 AD, traded with Persia for Monotheism, revolted back to Despotism, then researched to Chivalry, learned in 260 AD; after that Taxes were 100%. By that time my offensive against the Ottomans had stalled (they got their Iron connected, and Pikemen started showing up), so I piled up Horsmen nearby, connected Iron by forming a colony, upgraded about 10 of them and rekindled the offensive, kicking off my GA. I had already GL built SunTzu's, and after upgrading most of my existing Horsemen, I pillaged my colony and used Despotism (and Pyramids) to pop-rush Veteran Horsemen whenever I could. When I reconnected Iron in 460 AD, I had 46 Horsemen and 65 Ansars. I was able to upgrade 3 horsemen to Ansars per turn for most of the game; first because of the GA and then later when I used a GL to build my FP.

With Ansars the Ottoman war went better, and I was able to sign peace gaining a couple Western cities. I continued on with the Russians, who had been weakened earlier by war with the Ottomans. Meanwhile, I used a mostly Horsemen army to start taking on the Germans; gradually Ansars joined the force. Once Germany was down to 3 cities, I signed Peace for one of them.

India was interesting. They were at war with England, and since I had occupied most of the Jungly territory between me and India, I could watch both armies advance on each other. India was going down the East coast, while England was moving West to go up between the 2 Lakes - this wouldn't do! So I used workers to block off the more westernly approach; amazing how the AI knew I'd done this

and England retreated to head directly North, along the coast, and right into the Indian army :lol:

With most of the Indian forces occupied this way, I found the time ripe to race through their homeland capturing all their cities; somewhere an Indian settler survived, so I never quite got rid of Gandhi. One other interesting note - several of the Indian units avoided the English and made an end run at the nearest English city; all of a sudden this small force, unable to make much of a dent, caused their main force to retreat backwards! I could see that the additional forces that England was moving this way were already more than enough to handle this threat - Silly AI!! This is right around 500 AD.

By 500 AD I had also taken Russia down to a few cities, rekindled the Ottoman war and nearly finished them, and started my main push into Persia. At this point, other than breaking a couple of peace treaties, I had played fairly cleanly and maintained ROP's with the Aztecs and Zulus. I was able to renegotiate these deals by throwing in some luxuries and a 1 gpt payment to the Zulu. After cleaning up a few more loose ends, I ROP-raped the Aztecs in roughly 550 AD, and the Zulu in 630 AD. In 630 I was down to 23 Horsemen, and had 94 Ansars in the field.

That was mostly that. I would use large stacks of Ansars to quash the rebellions in the cities, then do a pop-rush to complete the Temples. I switched to Monarchy for the last couple of turns to cash rush items where I didn't have the population. Didn't handle that the best I could; in 700 AD I was 109 tiles from Domination and rushed/Ansar-disbanded several Settlers, in 710 AD just 34 and after founding several cities and gaining a few cultural expansions, I was 70 ish tiles over the limit in 720 AD. Getting those settlers a turn earlier was possible to take a shot at shaving a turn off.

I got 2 other GL's in the game - MarkCutt built my FP in Sogut, and donsig was used to build a Temple in a remote captured Persian city. The AI had all the other Great Wonders; they never learned Gunpowder (at least the ones I attacked!), and while they had Invention, none of them cared to share it with me.

Here are the stats from the submittal log:

Your name: civ_steve
Software Version: PtW 1.27f for Windows
Entry class: Predator
Game status: Domination Victory for Arabia
Game date: 720 AD
Firaxis score: 7610
Jason score: 9908
Time played: 24:16:24

So your Jason score is slightly higher Niklas. (Probably from all the pop-rushes I was doing!)

Jove · Feb 1, 2006

Nice results, Niklas! You too, tR1cKy. I took the challenge, I got whupped, I guess there's still more for me to learn about domination...

Niklas · Feb 2, 2006

Interesting to see that there were a lot of predator domination entries submitted with surprisingly similar end dates: civ_steve (turn 187), me (188), tR1cKy (192), I. Larkin (194), Più Freddo (196), Redbad (197), Jove (200). That's what a challenge game should be like, thanks tR1cKy for the initiative! :thumbsup:

It is also interesting to see the different strategies used. Me and Redbad both went for cavalry, while the rest of you (Jove?) used Ansars. civ_steve's pop-rushing tactics is also nice, and perhaps the most impressive of all is that I. Larkin got his really nice end date with his reputation intact! :eek:

@civ_steve: Your turn to give me hope then! When I switched focus from milking to domination, I didn't care for an award, I wanted a medal. With your lower score, I might be in for the bronze after all.

@Jove: Thanks

. Sure you were beaten, but hardly whupped, although you lost the challenge

.

Megalou · Feb 2, 2006

As things stand now (excepting lurkers) I think Niklas has a chance for bronze, while Kuningas and klarius battle for the gold. I must say that I prefer not knowing the final results until they are final. The interest is better maintained.

As for my own score I realized that ainwood and AlanH have been right that milking doesn't pay off unless combined with an awareness of the jason early victory bonus. I ended up in the low 9Ks. True, I only reached the domination limit in the 800s, but I had 37 marketplaces in 940 AD.

I. Larkin · Feb 2, 2006

Niklas said:
Interesting to see that there were a lot of predator domination entries submitted with surprisingly similar end dates: civ_steve (turn 187), me (188), tR1cKy (192), I. Larkin (194), Più Freddo (196), Redbad (197), Jove (200). That's what a challenge game should be like, thanks tR1cKy for the initiative!
2) It is also interesting to see the different strategies used. Me and Redbad both went for cavalry, while the rest of you (Jove?) used Ansars. civ_steve's pop-rushing tactics is also nice,
3) and perhaps the most impressive of all is that I. Larkin got his really nice end date with his reputation intact!

1) I played "open", as it was my first GOTM.
But I think it will be a little difference.
I wish to come to Industrial, but "failed".
2) I went to Cavs. Not sure that it was fastest way for domination.
3) Nobody had Tech/Money to borrow otherwise I'd broke it. Probably RoP rape may give end faster.

tR1cKy · Feb 2, 2006

Niklas said:
That's what a challenge game should be like, thanks tR1cKy for the initiative!

You're welcome, dude :hatsoff:

Awesome challenge, indeed! I didn't expect so much success. And submissions are up again. Anyway, since i *lost* it, a further dominator challenge is likely to be tossed again in game 52, unless i see the map best fitting for a different type of game.

@Jove: you didn't score that bad.

I went for Ansars too, and quite late in the game (my fault, i was expecting the AS to research it). Probably i'm the only one to have revolted to Monarchy instead of Republic, but it was due to the particular situation i was on - sneak-attacked by the Aztecs and lost a city in the very beginning of the MA. I revolted again later, after the Aztecs were gone and 4 luxuries were secured. Actually, an amazing number of things went wrong during the game, but i always managed to get around them... sort of. At the end, those negative events didn't cost me more than a pair of turns.

AlanH · Feb 2, 2006

And submissions are up again.

Submissions dip every year around holiday time - check the statistics pages on the gotm site. Obviously Civ4 has had an additional effect, but don't write off Civ3 just yet. There may also be a whole new batch of Mac players injected as a result of the release of the Mac version of C3C and PtW.

GOTM 50 - Final Spoiler

Megalou

Money is the currency of fear

Niklas

Fully Functional

Paul#42

flyball chaser

Megalou

Money is the currency of fear

civ_steve

Deity

Kuningas

Deity

Paul#42

flyball chaser

Niklas

Fully Functional

Megalou

Money is the currency of fear

civ_steve

Deity

Jove

Not Lacking Altitude

Niklas

Fully Functional

Megalou

Money is the currency of fear

I. Larkin

Deity

tR1cKy

taking over the world

AlanH

Mac addict, php monkey

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