GOTM 58 - first spoiler: Entering the middle ages.

[civ_steve]

GOTM 58 - first spoiler

Reading Requirements:

1. Must have nearly complete knowledge of starting continent and made contact with the other AI civs on it (or their remains).
2. Must be able to research a Middle Ages Technology.

Posting restrictions

1. No maps showing resources from middle-ages (or later).
2. No discussion of middle-ages (or later).

This map has a great starting location for growth (computer generated, by the way) and access to resources, but is a bit cramped. How did you and your 'neighbors' fare with the limited space available? Did you use your Immortals early or save them for a post-Republic GA? (I trust you didn't lack for Iron )

(On a personal note, I'm on vacation currently, so this post opened a bit late, although I believe there's a few spots where it is still the 20th! The second and third spoiler threads might come out a bit late as well.)

 

[Kulko]

Veni Vidi Vici!

Wow, this game was really a gift.

I settled in place and got my 2nd city down before Arabia. I put it down at lake genezareth, top clarify form the start, which of us would be crowded. I built RCP4/7 using my 4 turn Settler Factory. And then just went on building Immortals on Min Sci Research. Golden Age came still in Despotism, as I couldn't have build Immortals and Settlers much faster anyway. I annihilated Arabia, early, getting my only leader which build a FP in Mecca (had to relocate it a bit).
Afterwards I immediately turned on Egypt, which didn't fare much better either. Shortly before they were crushed, I finally got a suicide galley over the ocean.
I traded my Contact to the Egyptian 1CC for some techs, so that they could all watch my SOD trample down the gates. They were suitable impressed to jump aside rather than stand in the path of my juggernaut.

I tried to shuffle over my immortals using suicide galleys for a bit, but that prooved to slow. Unfortunately I had already a almost finished wonderbuild, which could be switched the GLH. When I got about 10 immortals on the other side, I crushed the american core. At one time I was at war with the whole continent, as Atztecs and Babs had settlers a small island in front of the arab shores. After making peace, I spend another 30 turns setting up the ROP Rapes, earning a Domination (and almost conquest) in 380 AD.

Entry class: Open
Game status: Domination Victory for Persia
Game date: 380 AD
Firaxis score: 9818
Jason score: 11727
Time played: 09:29:58

PS: Would the Conquest in 390 AD have brought more points?

 

[klarius]

Predator

Moved the worker on cow. Seeing the extra BGs, I then decided to settle NE. Wasted a BG, but makes space for a nice ring.
Research pottery. Build warrior.
Met Arabs in 3450 and got pottery and CB for masonry.
I then switched to settler before granary, because I wanted the eastern cow-lake spot for sure.
Met Egypt in 3250. Buy BW and the predator handicap is mostly away.

Then we had a long peaceful building and trading time.

In 1000BC we had 16 towns with 46 population.
2 granaries. 4 barracks. 8 libraries.
All ancient techs except polytheism, currency, construction and monarchy.
2 contacts and embassies.
2 settlers, 11 workers, 3 slaves
7 immortals, 3 warriors, 1 galley

We are in anarchy towards republic for 2 more turns.

975BC we start a war with Arabia by a boot order to a settler pair.
950BC we are a republic and start our golden age with the attack on Mecca.
775BC the second suicide galley finds America, buy contact with Aztecs (who had destroyed Babylon already) and maps. Then war with America to get the Aztecs to fight them.
730BC enter MA buying construction from Egypt. Arabs are down to 3 villages. Start war with Egypt.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Entry class: Open
Game status: Domination Victory for Persia
Game date: 380 AD
Firaxis score: 9818
Jason score: 11727
Time played: 09:29:58

PS: Would the Conquest in 390 AD have brought more points?

Very slightly, perhaps. The published settings for this game give a par date for conquest of turn #150, and the par date for dom is turn #145, so there should be a small premium for winning by conq instead of dom, at about the same date. Mind you, I think that in actuality, this game was easier to conquest, just like last month's game.

 

[dojoboy]

open division

Basically went into alternating wars against the Mongols and Egyptians. At the start of the Medieval Era, I was warring against Egypt, and the Mongols were down to one city. Remained in despotism throughout this period.

I'm more or less gunning for a domination victory.

 

[simone76]

It's my first GOTM and I'm really enjoying it.

It's different to play this way to what I was used to. In the first turns I kept saving (it's an habit for me) and I realized that it was useless because I couldn't reaload. Even now it feel strange not saving before attacking somebody. And not reloding after disorders in one town.

But I must say it's much better this way.

I have not chance of doing well points wise because I don't have your technics of playing, but I'm really enjoing this game.

I went to war with arabs and conquered Mecca that had the Piramids in, which helped. My first galley went across the ocean without any problem. I messed up later on, but I won't tell now.

Great game.

 

[ControlFreak]

Predator

I normally like diplo victories so I decided to go predator and join the PDC. Don't count me as a real contender because I never finish a game within the allotted time.

klarius (as expected) is way ahead of me in tech, possibly because he moved 1 NE, but more likely just because hes a better player.
EDIT: maybe I can make up ground in the Industrial Age with the RCP 4 instead of 3 spacing?

I lacked HBR plus the big four klarius was missing, and was 9 turns from Republic at 1000BC. My anarchy ended up being 3 turns from the big picture so I didn't take a second shot a revolting.

I went pottery>alpha>writing>lit>code>phil>republic. All self researched. I bought the remaining first tier techs, Mystism, Iron Working, Map Making, and Math with techs before the other continent was discovered. Then I researched currency, traded for HBR and Contruction (from other continent), reseached Poly and Got Feudalism for free.

My first galley skipped the potential crossing in favor of more continental shelf exploring and was killed by barbs before that was effective. (He should have tried to cross.) The second galley survived our first suicide attempt and found the other continent. They sold me HBR all contacts, ~200g and WM for Republic. I've been gifting them along and got Monotheism from Babylon.

I managed to build the Colossus in Pasargadae near the Ivory plains to the NW. This should be my super science city and is working towards Cops. Well see how the cascade works out, since no one was really started on wonder building until relatively late in the game.

I didn't get as many settlers out of the factory early on. I ended up settling at 4/7RCP, building the FP in the RCP4 city on the NE lake. I plan to jump the palace towards the Arab territory once their land is mine. I think I will be starting a horseman attack soon. I have not connected the iron and am holding the GA for the later part of the industrial age.

I also started settling an ICS train to get the silks. The city placement went down a narrow corridor between Arab cities and I had to rush some libraries. One of their jungle cities just flipped to me and I think I have a good chance at the others if the war doesn't get them first.

Egypt managed to settle the central dyes before I could get there so I'm going to have to connect and buy from them. At least I'll get something for my tech gifts.

I haven't gotten to 4-turn research yet but I'm getting close and education is due in 310BC.

It's been fun so far. Goodluck everyone.

 

[killercane]

Lets see... I settled north to fit another city in by the ocean/river. Entered MA at 510 BC due to AIs being so backward. Babylon was destroyed pretty early in my game so no free tech ; only Feudalism for my tech which was traded around. The AI really did not help with tech much, not even getting math or construction; perhaps researching math early and getting it out would have been better. I think I am really behind to come close a good date for PDC. Where were the Babylonians anyway? I dont remember seeing any American or Egyptian cities named Babylon.

Fought a war versus Arabs and eventually built FP in Mecca. Golden Age started in MAs and is outside of this spoiler. Start of the MA:

 

[Più Freddo]

Predator, Diplomatic Victory Challenge

Game is very similar to Klarius', only slightly worse, of course. I can see now that his city placement is probably superiour to mine.

Discovered The Republic in 950 BC, got 7 turns Anarchy, rerolled for 7, that is one turn worse!

In Republic I could research Construction in four turns on surplus, but didn't have to, since Arabia did it for me. It then went on to research Horseback Riding for me in three turns!? Bought these two for Currency, Polytheism and Ivory, so waiting with the attack on Arabia certainly payed off. Ketchup effect, sort of.

Thus entered Middle Ages in 610 BC without having found the other continent. One suicide Galley sunk.

 

[IronJeff]

Had a nice war with Arabia that started badly, my small stack of horses and 1 immortal redlined the last defender without taking the city. Fled the survivors to the nearest barracks and biult a better stack. Once mecca went down the rest rolled up easily. Gave peace for a city and they have been down to 2 swampy towns since. In the mean time the Egyptians declared on me. I used horses to pick off anything that walked out of the swamp while I mopped up Arabia then I had the luck to pop 2 leaders within a few turns of each other. I filled them with immortals. Im letting Arabia rest and maybe plant a town or 2 to keep down the barbs while I give Egypt the what for. Made the decision to not go for sun tzus as most core towns have barracks already. Im hoping it gets built on another continent where it will do me more good.

Entered ME About 10 Bc. could have been faster but i've been retarding Egypt and Arabia's research with all this war in order to get more done with my immortals before the pikemen start showing up.

 

[EsatP]

Conquiest at 50 AD. 3 tech before MA, AI was ended $). No problem before 0 AD. I has lost more 10 turns without sence...

 

[Abegweit]

What a generous start! Two luxes, three cows, a wheat, horses and iron within easy distance. I think I am going to like this new moderator

I started by moving the worker to the cow, revealing water to the north-west. After long agonizing, I finally decided to move the settler north-east, allowing space for an RCP3 setup. While this loses the BG, it allows the cow to be worked immediately. Had I moved the worker to the wheat instead, I probably would have gone east instead. Oh well.

At this point I decided on my plan. This is Persia on small continents. Can you say Ancient Age Conquest? We would research nothing but Map making and Iron Working. Hopefully, in fact, the AI would get these two techs for me so all I would have to research is Pottery, Alphabet and Writing. The rest of my gold would be devoted to upgrading warriors. So research order: P-A-W. Build order warrior-granary. The granary completed in 3150 BC, although the factory wasn’t quite functional so the first settler took five turns to train instead of four. One city would be devoted to building the Great Lighthouse. This might be essential and would certainly be useful. The rest all build Immortals.

Pasargadae was founded on the hill by the lake, pleasantly revealing two cows! Unlike Klarius, I hadn't seen either of them. Vanilla city placement is rather mechanical and I chose to build this one first simply because it fit well with my tile development. WRT that, I had an unusual development sequence. My first six tiles were roaded before irrigation or mining. Only when I finally got around to the wheat did I irrigate first.

Pasargadae started with two turns of wealth in order to get a worker as soon as it grew. The next two went warrior-wealth-worker for the same reason. Thereafter most cities started with barracks in preparation for the wars. Pasargadae, however, became my worker factory, which was functional in 1830 BC. Mecca snatched one of the cows with a border expansion, but I soon snatched it back

I met Cleo in 2950 BC and Abu the turn after. I traded him Masonry for WC. Next turn, I snatched two of her workers. Industrious slaves, Mmm. In 2350 BC, I learned Alphabet. I entered the Big Picture and discovered that Cleo was willing to give CB plus all her gold for peace. However instead, I traded Alpha to Abu for CB and 52g, and started to learn Writing. The following turn, one of her warriors appeared at my borders so I gave her peace for a bit of gold.

In 1990 BC, I performed my first of many worker melds, helping Arbela on its way towards the GLight. When Writing appeared in 1830 BC, I traded it to the AI for IW, TW and 50 gold, discovering that the game was on. Yes! I then started lone sci on MapMaking just in case the AI wasn’t cooperative. The same year I started a road to Egypt with a worker and slave. Together they can build a mountain road on two turns and a jungle road in three. Immortals are strong but slow. This would also help claim a third lux, with a fourth available in Arabia.

In 1250 BC, I decided I had had enough and started to research MM myself. In 1125BC, I learnt it, got a world map and declared war on Abu, starting off the dreaded Despotic GA. Three turns later, Mecca was destroyed. Next came Anjar. In 1000 BC, Medina fell. My road to Egypt and the dyes finished the same year and, with the help of a colony on Medina’s spices, I now had 4 luxes.

QSC Stats:
15 cities pop 56
609 gold
13 workers, 3 slaves
3 warriors, 3 galleys, 17 immortals
2 granaries, 9 barracks
6 turns to the GLH
All first and second-level techs minus Math plus Map Making

Several more workers had been built but they had been merged into the cities.

975 Damascus died
925 Baghdad, our first keeper
900 Najaran. Peace to Arabs in exchange for Philo, CoL, HB and a city. GA research gives Republic in 7. I decided that this is worthwhile.
875 Declare on Egyptians.
850 The Great Lighthouse
800 Pi-Ramses

In 775 BC, explorer galleys met the Aztecs, Americans and Babs. All on the same turn! Babs and Yanks were up Math but down MM, CoL and Philo. The Aztecs didn’t even know Alphabet. I gave it to them in exchange for their World Map. WM to Hammy for Math, WM and all his gold. WM to Abe for WM + 85g. The Yanks were the powerhouse with 12 cities. Hammy had three and poor Monty but one. The replay showed the Monty and Hammy had had a very early war, which went bad for the Aztecs.

In response to this development, I turned around my army from Egypt and headed for the USA. Several builds on the west coast were changed from immortals to galleys. Not all the army though Thebes fell the following turn. Eight immortals were left on the Egyptian front. This seemed enough to clean out the home continent when combined with those doing sentry duty in Arabia and a few new builds.

In 730 BC, Republic came in. In the end I decided not to switch. First off, we were still in GA. Secondly, it was difficult to imagine the game going long enough for it to pay. It could have been worth while to cause anarchies though… In the end, it never did serve any purpose. Furthermore, I didn’t upgrade any warriors either. I just pumped out the Immortals. At some point I got the idea to raise luxes to 100% to build up score. I should have done it a several hundred years earlier.

Finally came the extinctions. I had sent a series of galleys with immortals along the south coast of the other continent. Because of this, the first to go were actually the Aztecs in 470 BC. In 430, the Yanks followed. Cleo was next in 410. Abu 390. And Hammy in 370. Game over. I’m pleased to see how close all these victories were.

 

[DBear]

Despite my initial misgivings as stated in the pregame thread, I decide to move my settler 2 upriver before starting. This turns out to be an excellent move, as wheat and cattle are near, and later access to horses and iron. Also close are luxes such as incense and ivory. My usual build order--2MPs, followed by a rax and worker. I go for pottery quickly so I can get grainaries. This complacency is disturbed when an Arab city pops up ne of us in 3000BC. I was planning a ring 4 placement, with my second city on the delta. This changes, as I have to wall off the Arabs. After a second worker, I build a settler, who founds Pasargadae nw of the ivory. We learn IW in 2350BC and we have it! Just before the second millenium ends, we build Susa.

An Egyptian warrior pops up as we get the wheel. We road the horses that popped up after we got wheel. Learn alpha in 1625BC and trade it to Egypt for mystic as we found Arbela. The Arabs then demand our gold when we're running a deficit. As I've got immortals coming online, I refuse, they declare. I'm also being annoyed by barbarians. Antioch is built, and my archers are not getting the job done. I use my immortals to get an early GA, helps me get writing. I send some older troops to the south to scout for barbs while my main force deals with the Arabs. I open an embassy to Thebes and learn lit by 1100BC, trading it to Egypt for poly. A combat settler builds Tarsus to steal the cow and my immortals stack destroys Damascus. At the QSC date we are preparing the assault on Mecca.

QSC STATS-------------------------------
Score: 233 Firaxis
Land: 72 squares, 5 towns, 1 city.
Population: 8 happy, 6 content, 5 sad.
Diplomacy: 2 contacts, 1 embassy.
Production: 47 food, 134 shields, 11 gold.
Buildings: 2 rax, grain, 2 temples.
Units: 10 immortals, 1 spear, 1 warrior, 4 workers.
Experience: 4 regs, 7 vets, 1 leet.
Tech: all starters + IW, writ, mystic, poly.



Mecca is taken easily, it had only 2 spears defending, and it had their iron. I set Mecca to build the FP. I get a leader sacking Baghdad and use him to finish the FP. Thru misplanning, I have a city within 3 of Mecca, so I establish a ring 3 around it. We trade maps with Egypt, they're on the other side of jungle. I learn monarchy in 670BC, switch immediately, getting 5 turn anarchy. Learn math afterwards, trade to Egypt for law. Make peace in 250BC, Arabs are down to one jungle city. Egypt tries crowding us, I declare on them. I use galleys to go around the jungle. The MA is reached in 90BC.

 

[Niklas]

Predator Diplomatic Challenge

I can tell it's been a while since I played for fast research last, I'm having a hard time getting out of the warmongering line of thought.

In the large my game so far has been a lot like those of Più Freddo and ControlFreak, though with the details different. I settled 2NE and built at RCP 4-7 for best long-term yield. Played very peacefully throughout the QSC period, with the only units being MP warriors for happiness.

Research was to beeline for Republic from the start, I got to Republic on the year 1000 BC and revolted for 7/6 turns of anarchy. At that point I was lacking the usual Currency-Construction-Polytheism, but also Literature(!). Once I was a republic I quickly researched Lit, Curr and Poly, traded for Construction and entered the MA in 630 BC drawing Engineering as my free tech. Research is set to Monotheism, ETA 6 turns.

Some reasons why I didn't get to the MA faster:

• My warmongering of late has completely wiped the usefulness of libraries from my mind it seems. It wasn't until I had already researched Republic that I even realized that there was something called Literature that I should probably have researched a lot earlier.
• I spent some early effort on building immortals for an attack on Arabia, only to realize that I couldn't use them since I wanted to save my GA for later. Luckily I only built 3 before I realized my error. It didn't take long to rebuild my army with horsemen instead.
• RNG hates me. I managed to cross to the other continent on my 6th(!) attempt, well into the MA.

All in all I still think I'm well geered up for what's to come. I predict that many of us will be tight up to the end of the MA, and that the IA will be the truly decisive period. May the best diplomat win!

EDIT: Domination, Diplomatic, what's in a word?

 

[dojoboy]

Alright Niklas! I'm eagerly awaiting your next update.

 

[classical_hero]

I was a fool for this game, I reloaded. This is because I was actually beating the AI. This is one bad habit I must not get myself into.

 

[Paul#42]

Going for fast domination or Diplo.

Initial Thoughts
great site. settler east might be good to get another town at RCP3 in. But we will stay. We want a fast science game.
Second tough decision: Which tile to work first? fast science suggests irrigation of the wheat but the river costs an early extra-move. Irrigating the cow would solve this, but the wheat might be the only bridge to get irrigation further south. luxury problems...

Founding Persepolis reveals another irrigation bridge to east - so worker on cow for irrigation first

best sequence according to excel seems to be warrior, worker (on growth to size 3), warrior, warrior, granary (with two chops, forest used at size 4). Granary in 2900, 2 MP to keep lux down.

3750 first warrior scouts north at cost of some lux rate - spots Ivory and more cattle to east.
3600 warrior spots Arabian border - quite close
3500 We meet Arabs, gift 10g, trade Mas for CB, pottery (1 turn left) and 20g. We head for IW.
3350 Arabs know BW
3100 Persepolis size 4
3000 granary built. BW researched. Eqypt warrior visits us. We gift 20g, sell Pot for 26g leaving him 4g
2850 Arabs sell two workers Barbs around?
2800 first settler - moves N-NE-E, heading for the hill. Settler factory is online.
2710 Pasargadae founded on hill, RCP4. Persepolis built worker.
2510 Susa founded on Ivory.
2310 Arbela founded on incense. Arabs know Mysticism - 1 turn from IW I hope to get a monopoly.
2270 Iron Working researched. Iron 4SE of Persepolis!! Where is the clou?!?
Gift 26g to Arabs, trade IW for Mys, TW, 26g. Gift 26g to Eqypt, sell IW for 86g, letting them 19g
Hey, horses right among us!!
2110 Antioch founded on hill 2S-SE of Persepolis. Iron secured.
1990 Alphabet researched. We gift 55g, get WC, 80g from Arabs. Just 9g from Cleo...
1950 Tarsus founded between cattle, flood plain and lake on RCP7.
1790 Gordium founded 5N of Persepolis on RCP7
1675 Bactra founded 6NE-E of Persepolis on RCP7. Writing researched. Embassey with Arabs show Mecca size 1, settler in production, one spear MP...
Trade Writing to Egypt for HBR, 35g.
sign rop with Egypt and Arabs.
1525 Philosophy researched. Sidon founded 7SE of Persepolis. second 4-turn-sf is established in Pasargadae.
1425 Tyre founded on RCP10.
1375 Sardis founded SE-4S of Persepolis on RCP7.
1325 Code of Laws. Republic in 19 turns.
1275 Iron hooked up. Upgrade 3 Immortals.
1150 get Poly from Cleo for Phil, CoL, 57g. get MM from Arabs for Poly, CoL, 11gpt. Sell MM for 80g.
1075 sneak attack on Arabs starts our GA. We capture Mecca, Damascus and autoraze a town.
1025 Babylon built Pyramides
1000 Capture Medina.

QSC Stats (too late to submit )
18 towns, pop 52.
1 settler, 13 workers, 4 slaves.
6 warriors, 14 immortals.
All non-optional techs except Maths, Con & Curr. 4 turns to Republic.
3rd turn of Golden Age.

925 Make peace with Arabs for all but their capital: 2 towns, 20g.
900 Republic researched, revolt via TBP, draw 6 turns. Reroll and get 5 again... Research stopped.
825 first galley makes it to the other side! American and Babylonian border spotted.
775 Republic formed. 10 turns of GA left... Arabia is gone.
730 sneak attack on Egypt. MGL. Switch Lighthouse to fp, MGL will rush it elsewhere.
650 Great Lighthouse and Forbidden Palace built.
630 make peace with Cleo for three towns.
550 sneak attack on Aztecs. Sign in Babs. For free
530 Egypt erased. They could not report our treachery
530 sneak attack on Americans, capture Washington.
390 Aztecs reach MA.
370 Make peace with Abe for three towns.
310 America is gone.
290 The second MGL shows up... kinda late Peace with Aztecs for two towns. Two left.
270 Sneak attack on Babylon. Capture capital with Pyramides.
230 Palace moved to New York.
210 Sneak attack on Aztecs.
130 Aztecs defeated. One Babylonian town left - on an island
90 last Babylonian town chased down...

The result: My best ever!
Entry class: Predator
Game status: Conquest Victory for Persia
Game date: 70 BC
Firaxis score: 11875
Jason score: 12714
Time played: 12:45:34

 

[Paul#42]

@Klarius: Did your Immortals-in-trainings-camp in the southeast survive the barb uprising when you entered the MA?
Or did you clear that camp before?

 

[klarius]

Well, Paul, there was never a barb uprise in my game.
The uprise is happening when two Civs have entered the MA.
Egypt missed currency and America construction when they died (the others were anyways backwards people).
But anyway the camp was cleared before I entered the MA.

 

[Paul#42]

The uprise is happening when two Civs have entered the MA.

Well, that's what I like about Civ - there's always something left to learn for me...

As you missed it - the uprising was ugly. It's always hard to see an Immortal go from veteran to elite and than from elite to dead
especially after beating 12 of 15 horses...