Gotm17-Carthage Pregame Discussion

[civ_steve]

Like someone else posted, I'll finally get a chance to break my PTW out of its cellophane and get it installed!

Until I know more about the land mass that we start on, I can't make a whole lot of assumptions about plans more than 10 to 15 turns in. I'm sure that Map-Making and ship building will be important, and earlier than later; likewise the Great Lighthouse will likely be in demand.

Carthage's UU gives a 3 defense capability practically from the start, has a 2 attack to handle those pesky Warriors and Archers, and doesn't require any Strategic Resources; on the other hand, it's expensive at 30 Shields with no capability to build a cheaper unit and upgrade. (As we all know so well now, Rome's Legionaries also cost 30 but get a 3 attack and can be upgraded to from Warriors, so it would seem to be the better unit even if it does require Iron.)

I plan to move my Worker to one of the adjacent Mountains to see if there is any better spot just over the hills. Being Industrious, the Worker can quickly make up for lost time if the scouting is fruitless. I do like the initial starting position for a city, and building on the coast or on the hill would both be good choices.

 

[cracker]

Originally posted by LKendter
I found this on the page description. What is this about. I rarely use mobilization, but I really hate to see a feature disabled. Has Firaxis been notified about this issue?

Contrary to what anyone else may say, I agree with you here Lee. It is unfortunate whne we have to anke this decision as the lesser of two evils. I will have more details for all of you after we get past March the 2nd and get all of the Gotm16_Rome games submitted.

 

[hbdragon88]

I have a problem: I cannot access the announcement page. Whenever I click on the link, it begins to load, and then it mysteriously disappears. I'm browsing on AOL but this has never happened before. Please tell me what's wrong...

Wow there are a lot of changes to make sure that the two games will be equal in playing style and that PTW players will not get an advantage over Civ3 players. Once I get to read the page I'll post my comments (can't now)

What is the mobilization exploit? You switch into mobilization as soon as you get nationalism so you can get a huge jump over the AI? Be able to research techs faster?

 

[Birdjaguar]

This one looks great and since I usually play on continents and pangea, I expect some challenges. The small land masses will make Pyramids and JSB wonders less effective. Lighthouse will be my top priority.

Like many others, I will probably spend the settler turns to look at the world from the mountan top.

An early golden age in a world where the number of cities is small may not be very beneficial (compared to larger landmass maps). It all looks very intetesting.

Will we get to use snoopys graphics?

 

[cracker]

Originally posted by Birdjaguar
Will we get to use snoopys graphics?

Technically you can use the Snoopy's graphics if you want, but some of the designed features of the game are only matched to the standard terrain set.

I would not worry about it too much if being away from the Snoopy or watercolor terrain really poses a concern to you, but if it was my game I would definately start with the standard terrain and then switch back later after you can say "Ok, that was sorta neat but now gimme back my colored stuff."

Good luck in the game!

 

[Birdjaguar]

It's not that important to me. I will play with whatever you design into the game. I enjoy Snoopy's work and usually choose it for most games, but "the playing is the thing, wherein I'll catch the crown of the king." Appolgies to WS

 

[Yndy]

Originally posted by Luithien
Hi all,

Well this will be my first GOTM..
My thinking. Culture and trade will be very very important... Will be doing everything possible to be the dominant force in these two areas... That means Lighthouse, Colossus and then G.L ASAP..

Very interesting. Colossus might be a very nice wonder to go to in a Regent Game. In most games you either not get to build it or find it unuseful given other more important things to do.
Lighthouse has been discussed and GL is not useful in Regent IMO but Colosus is something worth considering.

 

[Karasu]

The Lighthouse being so clearly a "must" in this game, I am surprised not to see anything from Col...


The Colossus might really be a good wonder in this game, but it really depends on later game developments which I cannot even imagine at this stage.
I think, depending on the type of game, that I'll go straight for Republic or Monarchy after MM, hoping to be able to trade for the techs I leave behind.
In this sense, I believe Yndy is right in considering the GL of little value: you (meaning "you good players") will be able to quickly get to the point where you are already ahead in tech or the GL has become obsolete.

It also looks like we have two main lines for the founding site of the first city. It will be interesting to see the effects of either when we discuss the QSC results...
For me, I will decide after I give a good look with my worker from the top of a mountain. I mean, we are industrious, I can affort two wasted turns if I gain some knowledge of the surroundings...

A final note: almost 70 posts and 1700 views in two days... this thread did receive some welcome!

 

[flexo]

Looking at the initial screen shot I can predict my first move.

Worker moves to SW mountain. Depending on what I see, settler might settle or move one step to the east (grass square by the coast).

Science will be at max for granary. Followed by trying to put out a warrior or two to examine my little corner of the world.

What wonders will I go for? Being commercial I think the Colossus is great. Lighthouse might be really good to. But I think I'll prioritize Colossus over it. If this is truly an archipelago there shouldn't be much ocean. But then 83% water can't be all sea and coast line now can it.

Being an archipelago, all wonders that only give one built continent benefits become alot less usefull. Pyramids for an island that might hold a couple of cities arn't really worth it. If you don't build it to prevent the computer who might have a better starting island than you. But then you don't really know that until you meet them.

Great Library might actually be a quite good build. If you are alone, it might be awhile before you meet up with the computers. They have their tech aid packages going to eachother all the time so you might lag behind bigtime. This will/might give you the tech edge. Build it and the ignore science for gold until you meet them.

@400Mhz, I don't recall who asked but playing large maps with this many civs on 400Mhz ain't much fun. I did that before my new machine. I actually played all the way up to GOTM16 with a machine on 466Mhz. So it is doable. But I wouldn't want to go back to doing it again. It might be a tad slow to start with but as soon as the AI or you start eliminating each other it will be better

 

[Jurimax]

The speed of the machine doens't make such a big difference, up to GOTM 16 I was playing on a 333Mhz machine, and I'm not saying things went fast, but it was fun. Now of course those problems are gone, just recently bought faster machine )

 

[twri]

When discussing about the best possible location for the capital, I think we should take into account the proximity of the mountains that potentially develops to volcanoes. We don't know how Cracker & co has programmed the effect of volcanoes. Not knowing the risk for a disaster, it may be wise to move the settler one tile to east to get some more distance to the mountains.

This is going to be very interesting game. Thanks for everyone who has put their effort on this!

 

[zak]

I was planning to make GOTM17 my first GOTM. Looking through the GOTM web pages, there is a button for "Code of Conduct" in with other links (for the GOTM FAQ and Hall of Fame) but it's not a link, just text. Is there a Code of Conduct available to read?

Also it was recommended earlier in this thread that players new to the GOTM should look at GOTM16 and GOTM15 before playing. Does that mean downloading the game and playing it or reading the forum threads so we know what information we shouldn't spoil, or something else entirely?

 

[Iver-P]

No one has mentioned yet anything about dealing with corruption and (un)happiness in an Archipelago game.

How can I make those out-lying islands productive?

Harbors bring LUX to help with happiness. But those take time and/or gold.

Seems to me that FP would play a critical role if/when the first CIV on another island is conquered.

I expect this game to be a challenge for me because I tend to play a peaceful/explorer/builder kind of game. (didn't fire a shot at non-barb in GOTM 16) Problems with my typical approach applied to this game will be made even worse if the starting island is small.

Hmmm... might have to learn a new play style.

 

[col]

Originally posted by Karasu
The Lighthouse being so clearly a "must" in this game, I am surprised not to see anything from Col...

Hehe - so you read some of my season 3 tournament posts. It definitely made a huge difference in a couple of games. To be honest I've never played a game on an archi map where it hasnt been absolutely critical to get Lighthouse for a fast finish - whether peaceful or warmonger. (In my case usually the latter)

1) You can get contacts that the AI cant - a very good position to be in if you know how to use that.

2) That extra move saves a huge number of turns over the early part of the game - especially in situations where it saves a whole turn on shuttling back and forth to move your army around.

Getting the Lighthouse might (just cant tell yet) be so important that the first move must be to get onto the coast.

Colossus or Lighthouse? I'd go for Lighthouse. It can be a game winner all on its own in some situations. One thing is for sure, I wont be making any effort to get Pyramids or SunTzu in this game. I still remember the stupidity of building the Pyramids on a three city island.

 

[Shillen]

1) You can get contacts that the AI cant - a very good position to be in if you know how to use that.

It's pretty amazing how powerful this is. I recently played an arch map and got stuck on the smallest island of anyone with no luxuries even. I made sure to build lighthouse first. Around 300 AD I finally met up with every other civ. I found out I was 8 techs behind the leader. Just from trading contacts and my valuable world map I was able to get every single tech and still have a healthy amount of gp leftover.

 

[pilferman]

Everyone seems to be discussing the merits of the initial city placement. I suppose I should jump on the wagon as well. As many of you plan to do, I will move my worker onto the SW mountain to see what I can see. I do not, however, have any plans to move my settler anywhere to the SW. It would cost too many turns, and nothing can be accomplished with that move that couldn't be accomplished a few turns later with a settler, even if there are 8 wheats and 12 cows. Ooooh....sweet cows.

Now, where to place the capital?

1) Stay on hill - Quick start, river, no coast access.
2) Move East - 1 turn delay, coast access, river, turn resource-less grassland into bonus grassland, one hill in sight.
3) Move NE - 1 turn delay, coast access, river, two hills in sight, waste bonus grassland.

I'm not sure I'd consider anything else. Option #2 seems to be the most attractive, since the bonus grasslands can be mined. The only reason I will probably do this is because I plan to get started building the Pyramids as soon as I have build a settler. As soon as I discover Mapmaking, I'll switch production to the Lighthouse. These plans are tentative. Who knows what will actually happen?

Wouldn't it be something if Cracker actually made a large lake to the east, instead of an ocean? That would be quite a dirty trick, but it is entirely possible.

 

[EMan]

I plan to get started building the Pyramids

Better make sure you're on a HUGE island before you build The Pyramids.............OR you'll end up with a Verrrrrry Expensive Granary!

 

[pilferman]

14 total civs on a large map? That's quite a bit over the standard limit, whatever that is. Pair that up with a map of 83% ocean and you've got too many civs for the land available. I sense that there will be a lot of warring taking place, at least in my wonderful world.

Does anyone know what "bonus workers" means in the game scope? I have narrowed it down to two possible meanings:

1) The AI receives a bonus worker when it founds a city.
2) The AI starts the game with bonus workers.

I really don't know what to think. Option #1 would be more beneficial to the AI, but #2 is possible as well. If I had to guess, I'd think option #1 is correct (if any of them are correct). Any thoughts?

 

[EMan]

On rereading your post, I guess you're going to switch production to the Lighthouse when it becomes available......so you won't actually build The Pyramids?

My Bad!!

 

[pilferman]

EMan, read the next sentence. I'm not actually going to build the Pyramids (unless I find that I'm situated on the whole of N. Africa). I'll switch production to the Lighthouse as soon as I can.


One more question for everyone. Does anybody know what is meant by "Southern Hemisphere" in the problem scope? Does it mean that the northern tiles will be warm and the south cold?