Gotm19-Ottomans Pre-Game Discussion

I don't think I'm going to be able to resist going for a military victory this time, even if it does mean giving up my contrarian streak. :) I'm still undecided about the merits of granary or no granary, and horses versus iron (assuming, of course, that we can get both techs in a timely fashion and that the resources for both are available). But since I almost always go granary/horsemen, I think I'll try doing the opposite this time and see how it turns out. Dont' want to get stuck in a rut.

Renata
 
Are there any multi figure units available for these extra added units for the gotm units?
 
With reference to Multiunits: Yes, some of the units are supported with munits packs but I have hesitated to use any of them because up to now the animations are oversized ny at least 50% and result in download file sizes that are 3 to 4 times the required files size to support game play.

Munits also tend to have a little bit of a negative effect on game play for the less experienced players because they can distract from actual game progess by havinga alot less going on. I was surprised to find that many players using munits then turn off all the animations so that effectively they have just big piles of static units scooting around.

You can check the munits subforum in creation and customization if you would like to use the SBB to compile you own munit for any animation that you have and then they can jsut subsititute directly.
 
Could you or anybody who supplies and makes those units add the url to those multi figure units available in the readme, that would be very handy.
 
Has anyone been able to get thier hands on the starting save for the May game? I downloaded the files and the save was not present.

:confused:

That makes me sad.
 
When you downloaded the first set of files in the zip there should be a .TXT file to tell you how to install the new graphics...at the end of said txt file there is a URL to the save game for us to play. Just copy/paste that link into your web browser and you will start to download the saved game. I did it yesterday and it worked fine. Hope that helps!
 
Welcome to the GOTM vaderseven!

There should have been a test SAV file with the package. Hopefully you can load that without error. If this is your first GOTM then there are several graphics to add before starting the game (from previous GOTM packages).

The link to the actual GOTM save is in the REAME file, as BigBro says.

It is kind of sneaky, but the idea is to avoid having people download the SAV file without having the necessary graphics in place.

Good Luck and Good Hunting!
 
erm this will be my first GOTM... think I'm gonna get my ass whooped... I normally play on warlord so when I downloaded the files for this gotm and tried the test.sav I nearly had a heart attack... deity yipes! But I tried it and lasted to ad270 before I got fed up of an "enforced" OCC. Bloody culture flips aren't a problem on warlord! :crazyeye:
here's a screenie
 
Don't be too discouraged just yet. We typically get a decent starting position in GOTM, unlike the test game. Also, the difficulty is Emperor, not Diety.

Looks like you got some elite swords. If you endured a war then you did ok.

Yep, culture flips can be a problem. I pretty much build a culture building without too much delay now. Of course the AI has a build advantage.
 
Ok, I stared at the screen some more, and I've downloaded the save to open after I post this as I now have a functional hard drive. I've also had the chance to play through the beginning (to the Middle Ages) of about 3-4 games on emperor on small maps using the Ottomans, and my revised strategy/shots in the dark follow:

1) I'll attempt to do the 'look under the hidden tile edge' scan, and if that doesn't work, my worker and warrior will go south and west, respectively, to see if moving away from the mountains is a good idea. If at all possible, more river tiles = more $$$. Also, doing this will prevent me from wasting too many worker turns.

2) Whether I build a granary or not will depend on how soon I find the other AI. If I find another AI in time to swap the build to a settler and still build one without wasting shields, I'll probably wait on the granary if not write it off altogether. This may sound odd as I am usually the Propagandist of Granaries :egypt:, but after playing a few emperor games on a small map the importance of land-grabbing often ended up with one or two settlers first being a higher priority.

3) I'm going for Pottery first, and then the Wheel. On a small map, I may get away with one 40-turn gambit at most, and not even that if the local AI have 4+ contacts. I'll still research-to-trade, but getting horses for the Ottomans by settling early on will allow me to choose going to war rather than being forced to go to war with swords so I can build my UU later.

4) Less spears at first, and more warriors. Once I get a barracks, an archer to go barb hunting as normal PTW barbs are obnoxious. The past few games, I managed to get away with little to no offensive units early on as the AI was massively dumping units into the barbarian cluster, keeping them busy. I haven't played many solo games recently using PTW outside of the GOTM, and starting with normal emperor PTW barbs again was a bit of an adjustment.

5) Dense build on a small map. If there's room to do an OCP-style build, I'll do it, but my city layout probably won't be as aesthetically pleasing as it usually is.

6) I want a worker-building city up earlier this time, maybe not within the QSC period, but at least by the Middle Ages, to maximize the Industrious trait.

I'm not sure if this exposition will help anyone else, but after rethinking my possible approach, I wanted to post it here for the record so that people don't go "Huh?" when they see my QSC and compare it to this thread. :lol: Time to open the save...
 
That was interesting. I agree w/most of the points. With the crowded map I'll be suprised if a granary is built. Also, the late UU makes horses not so critical for research priority.
 
I don't have the .txt anymore. A link please . I dont understand why it is such a secret.
 
Goonie,

It's not that it is a secret it is just that the versions of the save files are different to match the setup version that you have installed.

I will share with you also that each month we have 5 or 6 people who manage to have a hard time following the instructions in the readme.txt file to make sure that they have the graphics and text files properly installed to play the game.

In Gotm15-Rome this is an area that you had a great deal of difficulty with and it comes down to being patient and reading and following the setup instructions.

Here is a spare copy of the readme.txt file for the PTW version of the game. (which I am using my crystal ball to figure out that perhaps in the version you need.)
 
I read the instructions and did everything in order. My problem was that I had to go back and download the graphics from the last GOTM. When I did that, I accidentely clicked yes to all , which replaced my readme_ptw.txt, which means, I lost the link.

EDIT: Thanks for the Readme.
 
This will be my first ever emperor level in Civ3 and my first gotm. Hopefully though I'll survive for a while though! I’ve not actually got my copy of Civ here and won’t have it until Monday, so I’ve used my time to analyse the opening based on the screenshots. I may well have missed something here, so please point it out if I have. The post is pretty damn long so I’ve broken it into chunks for easier consumption. :) I know that there's a thread for hypothesising, but I thought I’d write this as an example more than a discussion. I hope it interests someone despite the fact that you’re all probably much better than me. :D


Ottomans - Industrious / scientific
Unique Unit - replaces cavalry
Difficulty/Size – Emperor / 3200 tiles
Landmass – Mystery
Geology – Mystery
Environment – Mystery
Barbarians – Roaming **
Rivals – 7 preset


Initial Position analysis
Let analyse the likely map: Given that there will be eight civilisations in total the map will be extremely crowded and I strongly suspect that we will be on a landmass with at least two other civs. Given that this is a manufactured map rather than one which has been totally randomly generated I believe that we may conjecture that there will be two or three large islands, perhaps joined by land bridges. Given this early expansion is going to be vital in order to settle as much terrain as possible. I am likely to face some quite aggressive and expansionistic local civs due to my cultural grouping. Furthermore, the small map and large number of civs means that technology will be traded at a very rapid pace. Thus my initial thoughts would be to produce at least one settler factory as soon as possible and to pack my cities in nice and tight.

Let’s now look at the mini-map:


Given our position on the map it is likely that we will encounter new civs to the south, east and west and hence we are likely to want to expand that way ourselves. We’re not told if world wraps exists, but it is likely that the world will continue from east to west, but blocked at the far north and south. By looking at the initial view we can guess that the terrain in the north-east will be predominantly consist of hills, perhaps to a coastline; the north-east will be a mixture of plains and grassland, again perhaps a coast. The south looks to develop into grassland, hills and forest in the usual mix and the terrain to the east could be anything, but is most likely either hilly grassland. Thus we’re probably going to want to expand anywhere from the south-east to the north-west, but most likely south-south-east or –west. If the west does lead to the coast then we’re going to want to get a city over there and have a monopoly on any northern expansion.
 
City Placement and Development




We now examine the starting terrain with a view to city placement. The workable initial area consists of plains squares, one grassland and one bonus grassland square, with a river providing a greatly desired trade bonus. Under despotism a plains square can be improved in five turns to yield the same benefit as mining a grassland square in six, thus the large quantity of plains squares are no too disturbing (note that irrigating grassland will yield no food bonus in despotism). However, the lack of a second bonus grassland and/or any food bonus (cow, wheat, etc.) is troubling.

Our first task will be to see if there is a bonus square close by that with a view to moving the settler by one square. Given that if I settle initially I will work the bonus grassland, my first move will be to put my worker there and see what it opens up. If I still don’t find a resource then I will move my warrior. If I move him to the west I will see further, but might waste time in having to walk through terrain already revealed by my worker (e.g. if I reveal hostile terrain or the coast). If I move to the mountain to the north I will reveal useful information about a large area, but might have to back-track as I’m likely to want to expand (and thus explore) south. Thus I will move my warrior to the west and hope for a bonus tile one square out.

Even if such a square is discovered I may not waste a turn to relocate my first city as on this small map I will have limited opportunity to expand and thus any turn wasted is a potential city lost. Moreover, given that the AI will be looking to start an early war, this might put me behind militarily.

The most likely situation will be that I will settle immediately. It is important to factor in our industrious nature in determining our build order.
Movement: 1
Road: 2
Irrigate: 2
Mine:3
Clear woodland: 5

The two most powerful squares in our initial line-up will be the bonus grassland+ to the south and the plains square to the north-east. I can improve both squares fully by turn eleven. Furthermore there is some woodland adjacent to these two squares and so we might be able to get an early +10 production bonus if we time it right.

We begin on turn one with unimproved bonus grassland (2,1) and the city (2,1) generating two food and two shields every turn (2,2). Our population will increase on turn ten and so we have two terrain improvement factors: in the bonus grassland we can build our road first increasing gold by one, or mine first and increase our shield production by one; secondly it will take eleven turns to complete all the work on the second square and so for one turn we will lose either a gold or a food unit. Which resource we do chose in each case will depend on which is needed.

If we build a warrior first the better order would be: South, road, mine (S,r,r,m,m,m)
Because the mine would not be completed until the end of turn four, we would produce eleven shields in five turns – as a warrior only costs ten shields we would be wasting one when we could build a road first and get one extra gold without any waste. This principal is even more critical in non-industrious nations as workers take twice as long.
 
Build Order
Thus the question then becomes, what should our build order be and thus in what order should be improve the terrain? The initial area is comparatively food and production poor. Under my usual gaming style I would attempt to get a settler out as soon as possible and found a city in a more food rich area to create a settler factory, whilst switching my capital production to military units. However the addition of the woodland means that I could possibly rush off a quick granary before I hit a population size of three. If I can do this then I will gain an additional ten food units early on when my town moves to size three which will offset the few turns lost producing my first settler because my second and subsequent settlers will be produced more quickly. Had there not been any woodland then the production time lost in producing a granary and a settler (90 shields worth) would delay me too much given my slow production rate (although this is debated); had I missed the city size increase my entire gambit would be fatal as my settler would be set back a further five turns as I recoup the lost food. To construct this granary in time I will need to clear the forest at the right time so that production is not wasted (switching production from a settler to a granary as it becomes available) and ensure that I have researched pottery by then. With this in mind it is time to get out the paper.




Potential Worker Order
S,rr,mmm (6)
NE,ii,rr (5)
S,ccccc (6)
Our production boost would come on turn 17.


Thus if we mine first we would create our granary at the end of turn 17, wasting four shields and not gaining the gold. If we build the road first we would still create our granary for turn 18,
but waste only two shields and gain one extra gold (on turn four).

Our second decision regards our food production vis-à-vis the plains square. As with shields once the box is filled, additional production is wasted, thus ideally we would produce our third citizen after the production of the granary (delaying growth if necessary to gain the additional 10 food when the city grows in size) and without wasting any food. If food is to be wasted it would be better to gain the additional gold from putting a road on the plains before irrigating it.

Road first (food units)
Code:
Up to t10     20    [i](as before)[/i]
t11            @ 1,4    1      [i]Note: Granary reset[/i]
turns 12-21    @ 2,4    3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19

So we would grow to size three on turn twenty-two, well past our granary production but wasting one food and gaining on gold on turn eleven.


Irrigation first (food units)
Code:
Up to t10     20    [i](as before)[/i]
t11            @ 2,4    2      [i]Note: Granary reset[/i]
turns 12-21    @ 2,4    4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20

Consequently we will grow to size three a turn earlier and will not waste any of our precious food, but will not gain that extra gold.

Thus if we want to build a granary we can do so before our town reaches size three by initially building a settler and researching pottery and then switching to pottery as soon as possible. This means that we have to have pottery technology by the time we have produced thirty shields (or else we will waste some), that is, by turn 12. On a small map with 100% science and the additional benefit of the river this should be possible.

We will then produce a granary for turn 18 and have sufficient population to support a settler on turn twenty-one. Furthermore our worker and production will be freed up from turn 18 in order to produce the settler and a workable terrain square for our third citizen. From turn twenty-two we will have a population of three, and twelve shields plus whatever can be produced by out four workers. What then should out worker do on turn 18? If we mine the grassland immediately when our city grows on turn 21 the mine will be complete and our output per turn will be 2,5 or 2,6 if the forest reveals a bonus grassland.

Now on turn 21 we will have twelve shields in the pot. If we get normal grassland production will go 12, 17, 23, 28, 33 finishing our settler on turn twenty-four with a three shield waste. If we get bonus grassland we do one turn better; 21:12, 18, 24, 30 getting the settler on turn twenty-three.


Most efficient Granary game plan

Our final worker orders would be thus:
S,rr,mmm (6)
NE,ii,rr (11)
S,ccccc,mmm,rr (22)

We would set out tax to 100% to research pottery and start to build a settler, switching a granary when it becomes available and then to a settler as soon as it completes. We will then be in a position whereby settler production will be limited by production and not food, hence production may well be switched to another forest or hill to increase the production rate. :)

Note: If our initial worker move reveals a bonus grassland or better on the adjacent terrain then it may make more sense to mine or irrigate this and might effect the decision to build a granary, but I rather suspect that we'll see the bonus grassland under that forest and any others further out.
 
Also, it is critically important that you turn on some way to contact you via email or via private messaging. If you have these functions disabled and then do something wrong like violate the spoiler rules, then the only option available is to lock your posting privileges until you fix the communications problem and contact me to make sure we can let you know what needs to be fixed and how you can get any help you need without violating the rules or ruining a portion of the games for other players.

-- cracker"


Greg,

I merged these threads together because this is a good analysis by Bouchehog and should be part of the pregame discussion. Let's get you to at least enable PMs so yo uwill not deliberately be incommunicado for future events. - cracker
 
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