Gotm22-Vikings PreGame Discussion

So I was interested in what is needed for 20K so I wrote a program to help me see what is needed for 20K. It seems getting 20K by 2050 is not too hard.

For example, take the somewhat low culture attempt:
Palace: 4000 bc (1060 culture by year 2050)
Temple: 2510 bc (1978 culture)
Library: 1000 bc (2616 culture)
Colosseum: 710 bc (1688 culture)
Cathedral: 310 bc (2352 culture)
Leo's workshop: 500 ad (1250 culture)
University: 650 ad (2320 culture)
Bach's Cathedral: 900 ad (2760 culture)
Theory of Evolution:1130 (936 culture)
United Nations: 1350 (1120 culture)
Seti: 1500 (750 culture )
Internet: 1700 (840 culture)
Research Lab: 1705 (418 culture)

This is just barely over 20K by 2050. It has no ancient wonders, and Leo and bachs as the only middle age wonders. I think if I miss most of the ancient and middle age wonders, I will go for shakespeares theatre. At 8 culture that can get you 3500-4000 depending when you get it.

So you would essentially need a conquest victory to keep the AI from launching a spaceship to do this(as mentioned before). Of course one would want to do much better, but even if you miss all the ancient wonders, it is still doable as a conquest win - just not an early finish. Not that a conquest win will be easy. If it seems too tough I will switch to diplo or Space.

I don't think I will be doing predator this game. Trying for a 20K victoryand attempting to balance wonder building with expansion rate sounds enough of a challange for this game.
 
Originally posted by Greebley

For example, take the somewhat low culture attempt:
Palace: 4000 bc (1060 culture by year 2050)
Temple: 2510 bc (1978 culture)
Library: 1000 bc (2616 culture)
Colosseum: 710 bc (1688 culture)
Cathedral: 310 bc (2352 culture)
Leo's workshop: 500 ad (1250 culture)
University: 650 ad (2320 culture)
Bach's Cathedral: 900 ad (2760 culture)
Theory of Evolution:1130 (936 culture)
United Nations: 1350 (1120 culture)
Seti: 1500 (750 culture )
Internet: 1700 (840 culture)
Research Lab: 1705 (418 culture)

This is just barely over 20K by 2050. It has no ancient wonders, and Leo and bachs as the only middle age wonders. I think if I miss most of the ancient and middle age wonders, I will go for shakespeares theatre. At 8 culture that can get you 3500-4000 depending when you get it.
Click to expand...

You have forgotten the small wonders and you would be better off building all these in the city with the forbidden palace instead of the palace.
 
@Greebley: good to see a tool, I'll definitely look at it. But getting there before 2050AD is only the beginning. Stopping the AI to build their spaceships *is* the hard part. The higher the difficulty level the harder that'll be obviously. Does anyone know what bonusses the AI gets on demi-god?
 
Originally posted by zagnut
The conventional wisdom seems to be that we will be on a small continent or large island. Perhaps with a couple of other civs, but maybe alone. The Open Class will be playing above Emperor, which means that we won't be able to research much before the AI. It's great to plan to build 2 or 3 Wonders, but that usually is not possibly at this level. I think we have to assume that we will be behind for quiet some time in this game. That will especially be the case if we are alone on an island where we can't buy techs from other civs until we research Map Making or are fortuitously "discovered" by another civ.
Click to expand...

I wimped out and went and bought PTW yesterday (btw what are all the files I need to install to make it GOTM compatible?). Tried a few viking games at Emperor (ok it is a notch below what we will be playing but still). You are right. Very hard to grab those two three wonders, stupid Iroqs managed to build three wonders in Salamanca, stunning.

But in the end I managed to sneak three in (TGL, LightH and Hanging). So it is definetly doable. As quickly as one can get another city up at a good location, your 2k city and start culturing!

TGL is probably the most important ancient culture generating wonder. So I'd try to go for that, not only for the tech catchup effect it will grant me (most likely) but for the sheer culture value.

Originally posted by scubagtr
OK, so if I miss the Great Lib and the Oracle then everyone dies and I will attempt to swarm the world with my mighty Bezerkers.:die:
Click to expand...

Not necessarily but the odds are higher :)
 
My gut feeling is that we will have neighbors on our island. Otherwise, as others have mentioned, the early wonders will be practically impossible since GL's won't be possible until after map making. Maybe the colossus- it's one early wonder I sometimes get on Deity, and this demigod level is a *little* easier. SirPleb, or somebody, could you provide us with some beaker counts for the tech tree for this unusual difficulty level? That'd be GREAT!
 
I have decided I will learn much more from this game if I play it on conquest level, even if that means I can't submit. Without the results from GOTM21(open) I don't know if I was in the top 50% but it was a win! For GOTM20 I was outside the top 50% by a small amount and that was submitted as a loss, so I'm probably not supposed to play on conquest anymore :cry:

I have been playing a few practice games on emperor and got my butt kicked each time.... never seemed to find a river or any lux in time! On the plus side I got my second ever civ3 win playing as the vikings on regent... diplomatic but it still counts!

I think I'm going to need my free spearman...
 
I won a 20k culture victory on accident once while playing on warlord in my early games. Other than that, I've come close, but never made it. Not that I was trying...I would notice my culture was up around 18k (usually in my second city, because then I can prebuild and fall back on Palace or FP if I lose out and can't cascade) when I won via some other means.

I will almost definately lose this game, but I will give it a serious shot. If all else fails, perhaps I can win some other way.

The problem is, my worst area of play is in Ancient Times. Even on Monarch and Regent, I end up a little behind entering the Middle Ages.

Once I get to Industrial and Modern, I catch up quickly and usually rapidly take a points lead and then embark upon my wars.

Lately I have taken to playing the beginnings of games over and over trying to figure out what I am doing wrong. I rarely finish them because I can tell at a certain point I will win (or lose), but I am still not satisfied with my beginning game strategies. This will be a serious test of everything I have learned so far.

There is one thing to my advantage (I hope): My favorite maps are the island variety. Not being a great warmonger, usually it means I won't have to fight wars on more than one front in the early turns, and I usually excel. However, I am not a great naval strategist, and I usually use my galleys only to find other civs, and maybe get just one or two cities on other islands. Then I wait for airports and make war.

I doubt that will work this game. I am going to go for it early though, and not play cautiously as I have the past two games. If I lose because of it, so be it. Hopefully there will be lessons to learn from it.

Ghostwind
 
What it means is that there is a difference between the movement of your ships from coast (3 movement points/tile) to sea (2 MP/tile) to ocean (1 MP/tile). It is in the game announcement and is discussed earlier in this thread.
 
In GOTM 19 I finished 198 out of 245. In GOTM 20 (playing conquest) I finished 95 out of 185, barely in the top half.

Does this mean I can't play the Vikings GOTM 22 in conquest?
 
@ltccone -
I believe you must play open. My understanding of conquest is for the lower 50% of the standings.

Hopefully Cracker will speak up and verify this. ;)

Also, Cracker are we going to get the answer of what you defined as demi-god. I would like to know exactly what I am fighting.
 
Originally posted by LKendter
Also, Cracker are we going to get the answer of what you defined as demi-god. I would like to know exactly what I am fighting.
Click to expand...

We can just assume that it is a semi-deity level. Harder than Emperor level but not as tough as Deity level.
 
Plans for GOTM 22

I'm thinking about a reduced sized empire. Just big enough to require a FP. Possibly a double ring of 6-8 cities each, with the palace in 1 core and the FP in the other. Build most of the wonders in the FP city. Try for CB->Myst->Poly->Monarchy research path. That'll give me a shot at Oracle & HG. Try to trade early for BW and build Colossus if a port city site is available. I'm hoping to finish early in the month and have time to the mid-month game (tournament game 5-4). I haven't seen any information on the Civ, size or victory conditions yet. Are they out yet?

:beer:
 
My guesses at the DemiGod Level:

  • Cost Factor: 70%
  • Content Citizens: 1
  • Human research rate: 146%
  • Attack against barbs: 25%
  • AI-AI trading: 155
  • AI Max Anarchy: 2-3
  • Defensive Units: 6
  • Offensive Units: 3
  • Settlers: 1 extra?
  • Workers: 2-3 ?

This was just the average of Emperor and Deity.

Hotrod
 
First I was scared about demi-god/predator level and 20k goal. My only 20k wins have been on OCCs in Monarch and below. After thinking a bit, I think I'm going to try it, at least that's something different. My strategy is to dominate the world and wait until 20k win. If that does not seem to happen, I'll just settle for domination/conquest.

I would also like to try world war strategy to slow down tech pace. I have used it in last two games I have played (emperor/deity). First emperor game was easy as usual, but in deity everyone teamed against me. First I signed MAs against selected targets, but when one of my allies broke the treaty, and demanded outrageous fees for further alliance. I did not accept and after that it was downfall.

Anyway, my questions are:
1) Are there differences between different civs in how trustful they are? Or is it just some RNG unluck? Atleast I have noticed that Germans seem to be willing to fight anyone (due to high aggression level?) and Japans tend to backstab.
2) What factors affect how viable and willingful others are to MAs? Starting a war first and then requesting MA makes a big difference, at least. How do others value your military size/power graph/etc?
 
Another 20K calculator (my apologies Greebley ;) )

I wrote an Excel worksheet to help me with 20K related calculations and pojections when I went for this goal in GOTM17.

I thought this month some people (those who like to do things by the numbers :) ) might find it helpful. So I've tidied it up a tad and posted it in the utilities section on this thread.
 
Originally posted by Jove
SirPleb, or somebody, could you provide us with some beaker counts for the tech tree for this unusual difficulty level?
Click to expand...
Sorry, I'm not positive how to do the beaker counts. I tend to play research rate by gut feel (for map size's science rate) and refine that based on tech base costs and my actual speed as things get rolling. Maybe someone else knows the beaker counts and can post them?
 
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