Gotm22-Vikings PreGame Discussion

[Smirk]

Originally posted by cgannon64
The Great Lighthouse is going to be worth alot more now also, because it will speed exploration more than usual.

What is the effect of the GL with this ship movement mod? Can a galley move 7, 8 or what? It seems there is no effective difference unless traveling on ocean.

 

[CruddyLeper]

With the Great Lighthouse, a galley has 7 movement points. Now coast costs 3 movement points so without the GL you can only move 2 tiles - with it, you have a point left over. And as we all know, if you have at least one movement point, you can move another tile.

So in coast, 3 moves instead of 2 with the GL!

There's a thread about it somewhere - "Predator Naval movement" or some such. It all gets more complicated when sea and ocean are added to the equation.

 

[cgannon64]

Originally posted by Smirk


What is the effect of the GL with this ship movement mod? Can a galley move 7, 8 or what? It seems there is no effective difference unless traveling on ocean.

Well, it adds one move, so that gives a Galley 7 moves. A Galley with 7 moves can move 2 (remainder 1 if that counts) on coastline and 3 (remainder 1 if that counts) on sea.

So there is a difference. If the remainder doesn't count, then the movement bonus seems to be about the same - 1 extra tile if you travel on sea - as a regular game.

However, the ability to cross to new islands through sea is always good, as well as the ability to trade over sea.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I think the remainder always counts. Veterans please correct me if I'm wrong.

So here's a question for those going for 20K. Would it be best to research Masonry first and go for the pyramids (4 culture/turn, cost 400 shields) or Bronze Working and the Colossus (3 culture/turn, cost 200 shields)?

Would it be worth going for something less than 40 turns on research? Here's my thought, with an archipelego, each civ is probably on its own island, and therefore we won't get to trading until after mapmaking.

With that in mind, would you want to make a bee-line to MM and hope everyone else is also tech hampered?

 

[OneFastWarrior]

I think I will go straight for MM, with a prebuild for either Lighthouse or Library. depending on city placement. I still belive that we need to get contact and destroy the 1st civ we meet. If this is anything like the last archipeligo gotm, then we will need to send fleets of suicide galleys out and hope to meet another civ other than the one close to us. However, Cracker ( and the awesome staff) seem to come up with new twists every month, so how about us, starting off in an area of islands with 2 other civs and then there would be 2 more groups of islands somewhere else with 3 and 2 civs each inhabiting them, the 2 civ island area would be 2 scientific civs. This would lead to either trading with the 2 civs or killing them and getting leaders and strengthening our culture and our size!

just some thoughts(MUST GET IN CRACKERS MIND!!)

 

[Svar]

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy

Would it be worth going for something less than 40 turns on research? Here's my thought, with an archipelego, each civ is probably on its own island, and therefore we won't get to trading until after mapmaking.

With that in mind, would you want to make a bee-line to MM and hope everyone else is also tech hampered?

Everybody else wont be tech hampered so I doubt that we will start on an island all by ourself. My guess is that we will start with two other Civs on a moderate sized continent. I don't see rivers on islands.

If I'm wrong it will be a long time before we get to MM as we will have to research Alphabet and Writing first. At 40 turns per tech that could be 120 turns.

 

[CruddyLeper]

I think Bronze Working for me. Not for the Collosus (it would be nice though) but so I can get to Iron Working soonest.



Don't know about having a civ on our start island or not - but if not, I reckon one will be close enough to view from the coast after a few cultural expansions.

 

[Sailorstick]

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
So here's a question for those going for 20K. Would it be best to research Masonry first and go for the pyramids (4 culture/turn, cost 400 shields) or Bronze Working and the Colossus (3 culture/turn, cost 200 shields)?

I don't think Pyramids would be a good idea on this map. I suspect the continent is not going to be very large and 200 shields for one culture point isn't really worth it.

 

[jeffelammar]

Originally posted by Sailorstick
I don't think Pyramids would be a good idea on this map. I suspect the continent is not going to be very large and 200 shields for one culture point isn't really worth it.

If you are correct and we start on a small island, then I thing the proper wonder order for the sole purpose of getting to 20K would be Colossus or Oracle (I'd only do Oracle if the city isn't on the coast), then use a Prebuild to try to snag the Great Library.

If I go for 20K (I haven't decided yet) then I would seriously consider the Monarchy path with no real intention of going to Republic. I would consider constant war to hopefully keep a steady supply of leaders rolling in. You want a fast enough tech pace early to get the big hitter wonders from the Middle ages in early so they double up by 1500 or so (earlier if you can).

In a Demigod game, I would also think that it will be very important to take down the AI's. Assuming a victory between 1500 and 1850, the AI's could easily try to launch a ship in this timeframe. A modified seek and destroy may become necessary.

 

[JamesL]

This looks to a particularly challenging GOTM. I don't have PTW as I am a MAC user so I have never played as the Vikings. I believe the Berserker is a replacement for the Longbowmen. So does this mean that you can upgrade archers to Berserkers? If so this may mean building up archers for a mass upgrade may be a good plan.

 

[rabies]

JamesL: You can upgrade bowmn directly to Berskers...at the cost of 100 gold each...unless you manage to build Leonardo's. Building a sizeable force of archers 20+ to upgrade to Berserks will be very costly indeed....and the gold maybe needed for techs if we are all alone on an island.

 

[Puzzlinon]

Watch the treasury if you choose to stock up on archers; Berserkers are very expensive. (70 shields, vs 40 for longbows.)

Might make the Workshop worth expending a leader on.

(edit: x-post; what he said)

 

[scubagtr]

I plan on building the GL for the 6 culture points and the other GL for better speed with my boats loaded with Bezerkers. Hopefully, I will get a lot of GLs to help build my GLs. Man am I confused

 

[DaviddesJ]

Originally posted by cracker
The first spoiler discussion will require you to have a very defined map visibility plus contact with specific neighbors and technolgy to complete the Ancient AGe.

Requiring all contacts for Spoiler #1 worked really well in GOTM21. Much better than previous GOTM spoilers, in that there wasn't the constant flow of leaked information about suicide galleys that would be very useful to people who had perhaps just reached the spoiler conditions but hadn't contacted everyone yet. Kudos for solving this problem, and I hope a similar system will apply to future GOTMs.

 

[Peanut]

Cracker, the GOTM team and other experts out there ...

Two questions from a Puzzled Peanut :

Q.1) "Demigod" being between Emperor and Diety - am I right in assuming that we get a 25% barbarian fighting bonus ? Also, that the AI civs get 70% build bonus, 6 starting defensive units, and 3 starting offensive units ? What is the (Emperor - Diety) mid-point for the starting AI workers and settlers ? Do they get one real worker and one bureaucrat (ie. he works hard but there is little value-add), giving 1.5 effective workers ? Do the AIs get one settler and one "half-settler" who can only settle a shanty town or fringe settlement that can breed but not actually build anything useful ?

Q.2) Just imagine ... my longboat, carrying my elite berserks Erik Peanutaxe and Lars Peanutcleaver, rowing silently up to an enemy coastal town. Suddenly they attack, howling in their bloodrage and leaping straight from the boat to the streets of the town! Erik Peanutaxe, the first to the shore, splits the first feeble pikeman defender clean in two, then retires back to the boat ! Odin (god of the fickle RNG), gazing one-eyed from Valhalla, cheers mightily and invokes a reward for the brave Erik ! Amidst a puff of purple smoke and a mighty clap of thunder, Bjorn Peanutsson the legendary Viking leader returns from Valhalla to lend aid to the Viking people !

An embarrassed silence ensues. "Well, sit on my helmet and swivel !" booms Lars finally. "Where did YOU come from ?". The three look suspiciously at each other. The boat has only two seats - currently occupied by Erik and Lars. So ... Where will the great Bjorn sit ? Is he unceremoniously dumped on the shore outside the town ? Does he flounder in the water beside the boat ? Will he be thrown a life preserver ring, getting towed back to Trondheim while the pursuing squids reach out and tickle him from behind in a most unpleasant manner ? Will Erik or Lars have to get out and walk home ?

In other words - if a berserk attacks from a fully loaded galley, wins and triggers a leader, where does the leader go if the attacked city or tile has more than one defender and the elite unit retires to the (still full) galley ?

Who can help to unpuzzle this somewhat puzzled Peanut ?

 

[DaviddesJ]

Squids in GOTM21/Predator had 6 movement points, the same as galleys. I assume that will be true in GOTM22 as well, although it would be prudent to check in the Civilopedia.

I never saw very many squids in GOTM21, although there were a few. I think also they start in "sentry" mode, so they don't start roaming around until someone (either human or AI) builds galleys and starts moving around to wake them up. There never seem to be any new ones generated once the original supply is exhausted (but this can take a while since they will just sleep if no one ever comes near them).

 

[CruddyLeper]

Originally posted by Peanut


So ... Where will the great Bjorn sit ?

I presume he takes a seat in one of the empty galleys you brought along to help transport all the captured slaves back to your empire... Using solo galleys with those squid about is a risky business, although hopefully by that stage it won't be suicidal.

To be honest, I don't know for sure. One thing I will definitely NOT be doing is putting Berzerks into an Army...

Because armies can't do amphib assaults, even if the units they contain can. I learned this the hard way.

 

[Zwingli]

Originally posted by Peanut
if a berserk attacks from a fully loaded galley, wins and triggers a leader, where does the leader go if the attacked city or tile has more than one defender and the elite unit retires to the (still full) galley ?

The leader will float in the water unharmed until an empty galley comes by to pick him up. I don't know if the leader would be vulnearable to squids or enemies, but this was the basis of a "Screenshot of the Day".

 

[Puzzlinon]

Great leaders really can walk on water.

 

[da_greatest]

More like floating than walking.

I'm going to go for the 20k culture. I'm going on a vacation this month, so if I find a good city site I'm going to do an OCC. I want to play the other tourney game so hopefully I can finish this one quickly.