SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
Wow, so it does! I missed that
That changes my thinking about these guys, they look a lot better now 
Gotm25-Mongols Pregame Discussion
- Thread starter cracker
- Start date
That changes my thinking about these guys, they look a lot better now As your average gotm newbie and peaceful vanilla civ player I was quite confused by the game anouncement - therefore I dived straight into the dusty manual, the civopedia and most importantly the scenario editor. My focus was on the special units.
Although I read one or two confusing and probably false statements about bombarding stats in this thread, most people seem to agree that "archery barrage ability of A/B/C" refers to a bombardement ability with
A = attack value (=6 except Ordu=4)
B = range (always =1 = adjacent squares)
C = RoF, rate of fire (=1 except Ordu=2).
Korchins have single lethal shots, able to kill via bombardement. A successful bombardement in Civ3 can either kill a city's PP, destroy a building or do exactly *one* damage to a defending unit. So far so good.
But I wondered how the blitz ability (= multiple attacks pt) would affect bombardement, since at least in vanilla civ there is NO such unit. I made a test scenario and gave my civ a starting land unit with ADM(1/30/3), RoF=2 and blitz ability. The result was - at least to me - astonishing: The unit can REDLINE a regular defender (due to RoF=2) THRICE PER TURN (due to M3).
Now, SirPleb...either you didn't know that (what I doubt
), or you didn't read the anouncement carefully - but both the Ordu Archer and the Bagatur Horde will have blitz. This means Ordus cannot attack twice per turn at strength 4, but 
SIX TIMES!
EDIT: Yes you apparently got that by now before I was able to post this post
What raises the question, do we need the other attackers? Sure, as Ordus can hardly finish off any D2+. Both Khorchins and Bagaturs can do that task, depending on the defender bonus. Probably lethal shots at Pike-/Musketmen, and the Horde will roll over any D1 stuff left. The Bagatur Horde Arrows might even prove more effective against Musketmen than Ordu Arrows due to their higher attack rating - I'll have to read the bombing math thread again...
All UUs will have a Zone of Control. Not sure if this can get important, probably depends on how many UUs we can raise at all, and of course what the enemies will build (perhaps even something unique?!)
Still there are some important unanswered questions:
1. Can bombardement result in promotion?
2. Can elite bombardement result in GLs?
3. Will all 4 UUs be GA triggers?
4. What does the Turghaut's "defensive archery" mean? I can only think of a bomb-rating for the ZoC, but without the active bomb-ability. If that's the case, how do we (and cracker!) know which attack value will be taken?! The editor doesn't reveal the slightest hint.
And finally: Am I right in assuming the Mongols traits in the Civ1.29f version will be Militaristic and Expansionist?
Although I read one or two confusing and probably false statements about bombarding stats in this thread, most people seem to agree that "archery barrage ability of A/B/C" refers to a bombardement ability with
A = attack value (=6 except Ordu=4)
B = range (always =1 = adjacent squares)
C = RoF, rate of fire (=1 except Ordu=2).
Korchins have single lethal shots, able to kill via bombardement. A successful bombardement in Civ3 can either kill a city's PP, destroy a building or do exactly *one* damage to a defending unit. So far so good.
But I wondered how the blitz ability (= multiple attacks pt) would affect bombardement, since at least in vanilla civ there is NO such unit. I made a test scenario and gave my civ a starting land unit with ADM(1/30/3), RoF=2 and blitz ability. The result was - at least to me - astonishing: The unit can REDLINE a regular defender (due to RoF=2) THRICE PER TURN (due to M3).
Now, SirPleb...either you didn't know that (what I doubt
), or you didn't read the anouncement carefully - but both the Ordu Archer and the Bagatur Horde will have blitz. This means Ordus cannot attack twice per turn at strength 4, but SIX TIMES!EDIT: Yes you apparently got that by now before I was able to post this post
What raises the question, do we need the other attackers? Sure, as Ordus can hardly finish off any D2+. Both Khorchins and Bagaturs can do that task, depending on the defender bonus. Probably lethal shots at Pike-/Musketmen, and the Horde will roll over any D1 stuff left. The Bagatur Horde Arrows might even prove more effective against Musketmen than Ordu Arrows due to their higher attack rating - I'll have to read the bombing math thread again...
All UUs will have a Zone of Control. Not sure if this can get important, probably depends on how many UUs we can raise at all, and of course what the enemies will build (perhaps even something unique?!)
Still there are some important unanswered questions:
1. Can bombardement result in promotion?
2. Can elite bombardement result in GLs?
3. Will all 4 UUs be GA triggers?
4. What does the Turghaut's "defensive archery" mean? I can only think of a bomb-rating for the ZoC, but without the active bomb-ability. If that's the case, how do we (and cracker!) know which attack value will be taken?! The editor doesn't reveal the slightest hint.
And finally: Am I right in assuming the Mongols traits in the Civ1.29f version will be Militaristic and Expansionist?
1. No
2. No
3. Only the GOTM Gods know this.
4. Bombard range of zero.
PS. Still not getting how the AI is going to manage to kill even one of my units in my stacks of gazillion upgraded Archers with their 3-move lethal bombard...
Peanut
A Slightly Nutty Flavour
... what exactly are these strange beings that some obsolete military units can retire to become ? Some options :
1) Perhaps they are just like settlers, but faster moving. Very useful !
2) Perhaps they can be sent off into the wilderness (ie. your neighbour's territory) to pitch their dilapidated yurts, from which they occasionally emerge to pillage surrounding lands. Not unlike Terry Pratchett's geriatric barbarians. Lots of fun !
3) Perhaps they just settle in retirement villages on the edge of your cities, complain about their miniscule army pension and the fact that these newfangled units their sons have joined never visit them, and contribute to general unhappiness.
4) Perhaps they camp on the landing between the first and second floors of your palace and whinge about the housing shortage. Oh ... oops ... that's the step settlers ... a different unit ... sorry.
I can't wait to see these and other mysteries of the Central Asian plains unveiled in a few days time.
1) Perhaps they are just like settlers, but faster moving. Very useful !
2) Perhaps they can be sent off into the wilderness (ie. your neighbour's territory) to pitch their dilapidated yurts, from which they occasionally emerge to pillage surrounding lands. Not unlike Terry Pratchett's geriatric barbarians. Lots of fun !
3) Perhaps they just settle in retirement villages on the edge of your cities, complain about their miniscule army pension and the fact that these newfangled units their sons have joined never visit them, and contribute to general unhappiness.
4) Perhaps they camp on the landing between the first and second floors of your palace and whinge about the housing shortage. Oh ... oops ... that's the step settlers ... a different unit ... sorry.
I can't wait to see these and other mysteries of the Central Asian plains unveiled in a few days time.
@Puppeteer:
You cannot play gotm25 material without the save game, because all rules including unit stats are inside the .sav file.
All you got with the 7MBs by now are the graphics, the sounds, and the new civiliopedia, which does not even contain unit stats and requirements.
In essence, you simply cannot cheat until November 1st
@alexman:
1.2.3.: Thanks!
4.:"Bombard range of Zero"
?
?
?
fine...and that means...how does it work?!?
@Peanut:
LOL (don't let Cohen hear you!
)
No, honestly, I do think the Steppe Settlers will be the Mercy Game Killer for those players who didn't manage to dominate by entering IA (people like me)
You cannot play gotm25 material without the save game, because all rules including unit stats are inside the .sav file.
All you got with the 7MBs by now are the graphics, the sounds, and the new civiliopedia, which does not even contain unit stats and requirements.
In essence, you simply cannot cheat until November 1st
@alexman:
1.2.3.: Thanks!
4.:"Bombard range of Zero"
?
?
?
fine...and that means...how does it work?!?
@Peanut:
LOL (don't let Cohen hear you!
)No, honestly, I do think the Steppe Settlers will be the Mercy Game Killer for those players who didn't manage to dominate by entering IA (people like me)
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
5) Perhaps it turns out that they weren't really Mongols, they were adopted? No, wait, that's the other step settler unit...
Seriously though, once the GOTM Gods stop laughing from all the obvious mistakes and things we're missing in this thread (I'm sure that's Cracker's laugh I'm hearing) I hope they will answer another question or two:
What specifically enables the Steppe Settlers? (A particular tech?) And once they're enabled, can we still build the special units, or are those happy days of mayhem over?
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
I just realized another way the Khorchin may be uniquely valuable.
If we take a city by first raining a gazillion arrows on it, by the time we're ready to take what's left it won't be much Badly wounded defenders, some broken buildings, one citizen, lots of ears to be bagged and sent home, and arrows all over the place. The one citizen part is the problem. If the city had no culture and we destroy the remaining defenders in hand to hand combat, poof, the city will be gone. (Auto-razed.) But what if a Khorchin kills the last defender with a lethal shot? Can we just waltz into an undefended size one city and take it over without killing the remaining population?
I don't remember ever doing this. Does anyone know what happens (auto-raze or capture) if a military unit enters an undefended size one city?
If we take a city by first raining a gazillion arrows on it, by the time we're ready to take what's left it won't be much
Badly wounded defenders, some broken buildings, one citizen, lots of ears to be bagged and sent home, and arrows all over the place. The one citizen part is the problem. If the city had no culture and we destroy the remaining defenders in hand to hand combat, poof, the city will be gone. (Auto-razed.) But what if a Khorchin kills the last defender with a lethal shot? Can we just waltz into an undefended size one city and take it over without killing the remaining population?I don't remember ever doing this. Does anyone know what happens (auto-raze or capture) if a military unit enters an undefended size one city?
As it happens I just did that in SG23. Barbs had raided an Ottoman city down to no defenders, and it was at pop 1. My swordsman walked in and took the city, and it didn't auto-raze. I was a little surprised, but grateful, as we are trying for domination, so that's one less settler to find.
That doesn't sound right, at least in PTW. Whenever you conquer a size-1 city that has less than 10 culture points (for all civs, including previous owners), the city gets auto-razed, even if it had no defenders.
I think in vanilla Civ3 it was sufficient to have 1 culture point for not getting razed, but I can't remember for sure.
I think in vanilla Civ3 it was sufficient to have 1 culture point for not getting razed, but I can't remember for sure.
Justus II
General Staff
This could be very key, as the rampaging hordes, with their moves of 3, will be able to outpace our settlers anyway, and we certainly don't want someone else coming in and taking our new land. This tactic can be used to capture key cities intact, at least until our msyterious Steppe Settlers appear to fill in the gaps.
Edit: Or Not, if Alexman's right, he posted while I was typing. It could still be useful, to take out key defenders, but you would have to start while the population was still a little higher (5-6 maybe, so at least you are past the defensive bonus). Kill off any wounded Muskets, then use brute force to finish off the last few.
The possibilities for using the combined arms of these different UUs is awesome. My only fear at this point is that we must be facing some kind of supercharged opponents, as I know this cannot be the cakewalk that it sounds like.
captain chaos
Chieftain
Hi,
I am not familiar with Demi-God level. I assume this is harder than diety level? Is there a description for this somewhere?
I realize that by asking this question I should not be playing at this difficulty level. Still I may get better someday.
I am not familiar with Demi-God level. I assume this is harder than diety level? Is there a description for this somewhere?
I realize that by asking this question I should not be playing at this difficulty level. Still I may get better someday.
rabies
Happy Dad
I've walked into size 1 cities with no defenders and had them razed before.
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
Darn. I just made a PTW scenario with some towns prebuilt, to test autorazing of undefended size one towns. They autorazed when I walked into them. 
zagnut
Monarch
Demi-God is a new level between Emperor and Deity. It will be implemented in the new Conquests game which is supposed to be out in November. However, cracker has already taken advantage of it for us.
Welcome to GOTM. Anyone can play here. Start out on the Conquest level and you will be surprised at how much success you can have.
captain chaos
Chieftain
Thanks Zagnut
I played gotm24 on conquest and found it hard . I played 6-2 Persia on conquest and found it easy.
I will probably play the Mongols on conquest.
Peanut
A Slightly Nutty Flavour
Originally posted by SirPleb
Darn. I just made a PTW scenario with some towns prebuilt, to test autorazing of undefended size one towns. They autorazed when I walked into them.
SirPleb : Did you let them build up to their first cultural expansion first (ie. culture 10+) ? Could that make any difference ?
and how about ...
6) Steppe settlers, being retired military units, automatically build walled retirement settlements and deduct from treasury the cost of a hospital, temple and a golf course. Their settlements start out very cultured as a result of their world travels, but sadly they are quite incapable of population growth no matter how hard they try. They generate lots of income from their carefully hoarded war booty, and their entertainers are cheap as they can recycle their material from a century earlier. They don't do a lot of new scientific research, but look on the bright side - they will offer you enormous amounts of gratuitious advice on how you should be running your wars, as well as reminding you just how tough life used to be when they were young.
von Riesling
Chieftain
How about:
Steppe settlers can build a city that can not grow beyond it's initial size of 9 tiles, but it can be moved, ala the yurt? It could migrate to follow the herds, if you will, and attach to any local bonuses that it may find (but perhaps also wear them out sooner). Alternately, a city that, being horse based, doesn't require roads to take full advantage of the tiles in it's ZOC? All tiles would work as of fully roaded. Of course, this would lose value in the IA, when railroads are all the rage... Your thoughts on my thoughts would be appreciated.
Also, a thought on "Asian Melee" or whatever it's being called, even if this is the wrong venue: You could play your choice of civ (from a given list, as re-introduced in the past few GOTM's), all competing with the same goal (or perhaps even diffferent VC's)!
Pax Annihilatum!
Steppe settlers can build a city that can not grow beyond it's initial size of 9 tiles, but it can be moved, ala the yurt? It could migrate to follow the herds, if you will, and attach to any local bonuses that it may find (but perhaps also wear them out sooner). Alternately, a city that, being horse based, doesn't require roads to take full advantage of the tiles in it's ZOC? All tiles would work as of fully roaded. Of course, this would lose value in the IA, when railroads are all the rage... Your thoughts on my thoughts would be appreciated.
Also, a thought on "Asian Melee" or whatever it's being called, even if this is the wrong venue: You could play your choice of civ (from a given list, as re-introduced in the past few GOTM's), all competing with the same goal (or perhaps even diffferent VC's)!
Pax Annihilatum!
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2001
- Messages
- 30,077
Just thinking about how the actual rules work, becuase even cracker has to obey them (most of the time ).
I would therefore suggest that the steepes settlers are units that the unique units (and only the unique units) can be upgraded to. Essentially, it is just a means of "upgrading" a unit to a settler.
).I would therefore suggest that the steepes settlers are units that the unique units (and only the unique units) can be upgraded to. Essentially, it is just a means of "upgrading" a unit to a settler.
Sims2789
Fool me once...
why is it that the Mongol UU's are weaker than the units they replace?
Similar threads
- Sticky
