Northern Pike
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The Celtic wastes:
Gr25 - AWD vs 30 civs on 250x250 Archipelago
- Thread starter Greebley
- Start date
Northern Pike
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Greebley
Northern Pike - Just Played
markh - Not Available Until Thursday
ThERat
I.Larkin
So, Rat, if you can play quickly--probably not a problem for you
--feel free to jump in ahead of Mark.
Greebley
Northern Pike - Just Played
markh - Not Available Until Thursday
ThERat
I.Larkin
So, Rat, if you can play quickly--probably not a problem for you
--feel free to jump in ahead of Mark.
Northern Pike
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BTW, the victory-status screen gives 100K as the target for a cultural win. Is this something we need to fix?
ThERat
Deity
Pre-Turn
ok, so the target is to get monarchy and MM as soon as possible
Russia is a good target as they don't have horses and iron yet
MM a bit, we can always slow production at this stage for more commerce I feel
1. 560AD
we have to deal with a huge stack of Celt units next to FoW
kill a total of 3 spears + 8 archers and 1 warrior losing 1 horse against a red spear
clear a spear advancing in the south [13-1]
IT I am impressed at the amount of units that the Clets can muster when they have hardly any cities left
2. 570AD
defeat spear in Augustodorum, same in Entremont
defeat 5 spears / 4 archers at FoW losing a horse yet again [24-2]
IT I wonder how the Celts can advance more units than they have towns
Sumer finishes Leo
3. 580AD
there are now 20 units next to FoW and 9 nearby, mind you, they have 8 cities
work the stack and kill 4 spears and 5 archers, but lose 2 swords and 1 horse
have to leave 11 units alone
almost lose an army but take Augustodorum with 3 catapults [35-5]
IT Celts decide to advance towards empty Aydin and not attack FoW
Germans finish Cops
4. 590AD
defeat 3 archers near Aydin, 4 spears next to FoW, too little though
[43-5]
IT the stream of units just does not end
5. 600AD
hammer the stacks and take out 4 spears, 2 archers and finally get another empty army
there are still 18 units directly visible and our units are too wounded to take out more
take Camulodunum after defeat 2 more spears [51-5]
abandon and replace Augustodorum with Iznik
6. 610AD
too many units, pull army back into Aydin and defeat a warrior
clear 8 units around the area losing a sword, 13 units left around there
defeat 2 spears in Entremont, abandon Camulodonum and replace the city [61-6]
IT Celts lose a warrior against a sword
Germans land a archer/settler pair next to a fog buster sword...city limit is reached, what are they doing?
we get the FP
Germans finish Sistine
7. 620AD
capture Segusio after taking out 2 spears
take out another spear at Entremont, stop attack as there are at least 2 more units inside
get that German settler pair for 2 slaves
reduce the Celic stacks by 7 units, they and we are running out of units in the south [72-6]
8. 630AD
now there is a Carthage settler pair, grab it [73-6]
take out 2 stray spears and generally advance, we need more settlers in position to settle as well
IT lose an exposed sword to an archer [73-7]
9. 640AD
start to attack Curvenorum, take out one spear in Entremont but it can replace one spear a turn
[75-7]
10. 650AD
abandon Segusio and found a replacement
capture Curovernum defeating 2 units, we have a settler to replace it directly
clear 4 units around there, move another settler into position [81-7]
Celts have a mere 4 cities left and we should be able to take them out soon
revolting shouldn't be an issue, happiness will be and cities will starve for sure
currently we are near the unit limit, what are we going to do in monarchy?
Russia looks like a nice enemy with no resource but SoZ
Russia would give us another lux as well. I am thinking of building temples
our homeland
ok, so the target is to get monarchy and MM as soon as possible
Russia is a good target as they don't have horses and iron yet
MM a bit, we can always slow production at this stage for more commerce I feel
1. 560AD
we have to deal with a huge stack of Celt units next to FoW
kill a total of 3 spears + 8 archers and 1 warrior losing 1 horse against a red spear
clear a spear advancing in the south [13-1]
IT I am impressed at the amount of units that the Clets can muster when they have hardly any cities left
2. 570AD
defeat spear in Augustodorum, same in Entremont
defeat 5 spears / 4 archers at FoW losing a horse yet again [24-2]
IT I wonder how the Celts can advance more units than they have towns
Sumer finishes Leo
3. 580AD
there are now 20 units next to FoW and 9 nearby, mind you, they have 8 cities
work the stack and kill 4 spears and 5 archers, but lose 2 swords and 1 horse
have to leave 11 units alone
almost lose an army but take Augustodorum with 3 catapults [35-5]
IT Celts decide to advance towards empty Aydin and not attack FoW
Germans finish Cops
4. 590AD
defeat 3 archers near Aydin, 4 spears next to FoW, too little though
[43-5]
IT the stream of units just does not end
5. 600AD
hammer the stacks and take out 4 spears, 2 archers and finally get another empty army
there are still 18 units directly visible and our units are too wounded to take out more
take Camulodunum after defeat 2 more spears [51-5]
abandon and replace Augustodorum with Iznik
6. 610AD
too many units, pull army back into Aydin and defeat a warrior
clear 8 units around the area losing a sword, 13 units left around there
defeat 2 spears in Entremont, abandon Camulodonum and replace the city [61-6]
IT Celts lose a warrior against a sword
Germans land a archer/settler pair next to a fog buster sword...city limit is reached, what are they doing?
we get the FP
Germans finish Sistine
7. 620AD
capture Segusio after taking out 2 spears
take out another spear at Entremont, stop attack as there are at least 2 more units inside
get that German settler pair for 2 slaves
reduce the Celic stacks by 7 units, they and we are running out of units in the south [72-6]
8. 630AD
now there is a Carthage settler pair, grab it [73-6]
take out 2 stray spears and generally advance, we need more settlers in position to settle as well
IT lose an exposed sword to an archer [73-7]
9. 640AD
start to attack Curvenorum, take out one spear in Entremont but it can replace one spear a turn
[75-7]
10. 650AD
abandon Segusio and found a replacement
capture Curovernum defeating 2 units, we have a settler to replace it directly
clear 4 units around there, move another settler into position [81-7]
Celts have a mere 4 cities left and we should be able to take them out soon
revolting shouldn't be an issue, happiness will be and cities will starve for sure
currently we are near the unit limit, what are we going to do in monarchy?
Russia looks like a nice enemy with no resource but SoZ
Russia would give us another lux as well. I am thinking of building temples
our homeland
I think attacking Russia makes sense.
I think temples and even cathedrals in the towns that require the highest lux rate is a good idea in this setup. We will likely get one resource per large island. Cathedrals are expensive in shields but cheaper in terms of cash (3 happy for 2 cash) - if all cities that would normally raise the lux had them, we would likely save something. Cities that are happy enough won't need cathedrals of course (for example, I don't think the capitol will need one).
BTW is Sistine Chapel worldwide or continent wide? Germany has it, so it won't be on our continent.
It sounds like we have a reasonable number of armies too. I see no reason to build the Pentagon until later in the game because we will have to keep clearing an island and move on.
One thing we may want to consider this game is seriously keeping cities when we can. Kept cities flip, but also come with improvements and population to get up an running into science farms much more quickly. I am not sure we will always have the luxury of raze and replace - we need higher research. Our initial bridge head onto the other continent will likely need to raze, but once we are making steady forward progress, I think we should keep all cities. When we kill the civ we get all the cities with aquaducts and increased size and immediate science benefits. Flips are an annoyance, but one we can live with. We are good enough not to lose armies due to flips because we accidentally put one in a city that could flip. I feel the extra science is worth the slower advance necessary for keeping cities. It may even be the key to winning this variant.
I know in the past I have taken out civs and increased science by 100-200 in just 10 turns.
I think temples and even cathedrals in the towns that require the highest lux rate is a good idea in this setup. We will likely get one resource per large island. Cathedrals are expensive in shields but cheaper in terms of cash (3 happy for 2 cash) - if all cities that would normally raise the lux had them, we would likely save something. Cities that are happy enough won't need cathedrals of course (for example, I don't think the capitol will need one).
BTW is Sistine Chapel worldwide or continent wide? Germany has it, so it won't be on our continent.
It sounds like we have a reasonable number of armies too. I see no reason to build the Pentagon until later in the game because we will have to keep clearing an island and move on.
One thing we may want to consider this game is seriously keeping cities when we can. Kept cities flip, but also come with improvements and population to get up an running into science farms much more quickly. I am not sure we will always have the luxury of raze and replace - we need higher research. Our initial bridge head onto the other continent will likely need to raze, but once we are making steady forward progress, I think we should keep all cities. When we kill the civ we get all the cities with aquaducts and increased size and immediate science benefits. Flips are an annoyance, but one we can live with. We are good enough not to lose armies due to flips because we accidentally put one in a city that could flip. I feel the extra science is worth the slower advance necessary for keeping cities. It may even be the key to winning this variant.
I know in the past I have taken out civs and increased science by 100-200 in just 10 turns.
One final thing, I don't think the 100K will be a problem on Archipelago because the AI is so poor at invading other continents. Lets live with it for now and see if we can handle it. My guess is that it won't be that much of a concern. If it becomes one we can deal with it then.
I think somewhat corrupt towns will want them. Noncorrupt towns won't need them as we get enough Lux via the slider. Totally corrupt towns won't need them because they have scientists. Marginal towns could choose between temples/cathedrals and running several scientists.
You are probably right that wholesale building of temples isn't too useful unless we want the added culture (can be nice if we are keeping cities) as you can raise lux by a gold for the same effect (since temples cost a buck each). I would say we only build them when a town is limiting lowering the Lux rate.
You are probably right that wholesale building of temples isn't too useful unless we want the added culture (can be nice if we are keeping cities) as you can raise lux by a gold for the same effect (since temples cost a buck each). I would say we only build them when a town is limiting lowering the Lux rate.
Northern Pike
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I agree that we'll want temples in some towns, and I like the idea of keeping captured cities whenever practical.
Northern Pike
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markh - Up
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I.Larkin - On Deck
lurker's comment: Its worldwide, Bash is continental
Thanks puwen,
That does make it potentially attractive - a cathedral would be worth 6 happiness at the cost of 2 gold.
I am assuming we would get it when we took out Germany when we might be still limited to two lux. So temple+Cathedral+MP = +10 or lux rate of 0 with one or two luxuries. It would definitely increase our science rate at the cost of a lot of shields to the cathedral and temple.
At least something to consider especially if there is a pause while we need techs (e.g. Astronomy or Nav) before going after a new civ
That does make it potentially attractive - a cathedral would be worth 6 happiness at the cost of 2 gold.
I am assuming we would get it when we took out Germany when we might be still limited to two lux. So temple+Cathedral+MP = +10 or lux rate of 0 with one or two luxuries. It would definitely increase our science rate at the cost of a lot of shields to the cathedral and temple.
At least something to consider especially if there is a pause while we need techs (e.g. Astronomy or Nav) before going after a new civ
ThERat
Deity
Russia would give us a second pre astro lux with ivory as they are so close. However, we must find a suitable landing spot as they will have tons of units and will smash any landing easily. maybe drop some units far away to distract and the main party elsewhere?
That said, temples and cathedrals seem attractive here.
That said, temples and cathedrals seem attractive here.
Northern Pike
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The rough terrain in Russia may give us the opportunity to land a decoy unit where it can't be attacked in one turn. It's too bad that the AI has taken to sinking our curraghs, or we'd know more about the shape of the Russian island.
IBT : the AI just moves troops
1) 660AD : first and second take down two spears in Entremont
fourth smacks an archer in the South
esword kills a spear near Fields of Wheat
IBT : sword defends against an archer at Eboracum
The Hittites unload a settler spear combo near Siva
2) 670AD : fourth takes down another archer in the South
need two swords to kill a spear near Kirkl...
lose an esword on the Hittite combo
IBT : not much
3) 680AD : first and second kill 3 spears in Entremont and raze the city
IBT : lose a settler to German sword, where did that one come from ?
4) 690AD : fourth takes down anarcher on the way SW
fifth smashes the German sword
found New Edrine
Curragh in the West sports some light purple borders
IBT : Monarchy -> revolt
5) 700AD : just moving troops
IBT : Sumeria greets us and gets dowed
Greeks start Magellan
6) 710AD : 4th kills a spear in Verulamium
lose a sword on a spear in the open
another one
take down a spear and 2 archers at Iznik
crush 5 spears, losing 2 horses in Eboracum and raze the city
overrun another spear in the open
found Lake City
ehorse dies attacking an archer
esword finishes the job
IBT : 4 swords die on defence against archer, we take down only one archer
Alexander pops up and gets a declaratioon of war
7) 720AD : kill a spear
take down an archer
3 mores spears disappear
IBT : are these Celtic on Steroids, another kills a fortified sword clean
8) 730AD : kill 3 spears in Ratea Cori... and raze the city
WTF, 4th goes yellow killing a spear in Verulamium
take down an archer in the open
smack a spear and archer near Iznik
the Celts lose another archer and spear
IBT : I cannot believe it, a yellow Celtic archer kills another healthy sword
9) 740AD : found Hill Town
Kill that damn Celtic archer and get An MGL at least
as there will be no fights soon I do not form an army, so we can consider to rush the Pentagon with the MGL
The remaining Celtic city will be razed by armies.
IBT : ugh, forgot to check cities, two cities riot
We become a Monarchy
10) 750AD : 4th kills 2 spears and razes Verulamium, we crushed the first AI
We are short one settler, I did not consider this when razing the last Celtic city. Sorry.
1) 660AD : first and second take down two spears in Entremont
fourth smacks an archer in the South
esword kills a spear near Fields of Wheat
IBT : sword defends against an archer at Eboracum
The Hittites unload a settler spear combo near Siva
2) 670AD : fourth takes down another archer in the South
need two swords to kill a spear near Kirkl...
lose an esword on the Hittite combo
IBT : not much
3) 680AD : first and second kill 3 spears in Entremont and raze the city
IBT : lose a settler to German sword, where did that one come from ?
4) 690AD : fourth takes down anarcher on the way SW
fifth smashes the German sword
found New Edrine
Curragh in the West sports some light purple borders
IBT : Monarchy -> revolt
5) 700AD : just moving troops
IBT : Sumeria greets us and gets dowed
Greeks start Magellan
6) 710AD : 4th kills a spear in Verulamium
lose a sword on a spear in the open
another one
take down a spear and 2 archers at Iznik
crush 5 spears, losing 2 horses in Eboracum and raze the city
overrun another spear in the open
found Lake City
ehorse dies attacking an archer
esword finishes the job
IBT : 4 swords die on defence against archer, we take down only one archer
Alexander pops up and gets a declaratioon of war
7) 720AD : kill a spear
take down an archer
3 mores spears disappear
IBT : are these Celtic on Steroids, another kills a fortified sword clean
8) 730AD : kill 3 spears in Ratea Cori... and raze the city
WTF, 4th goes yellow killing a spear in Verulamium
take down an archer in the open
smack a spear and archer near Iznik
the Celts lose another archer and spear
IBT : I cannot believe it, a yellow Celtic archer kills another healthy sword
9) 740AD : found Hill Town
Kill that damn Celtic archer and get An MGL at least
as there will be no fights soon I do not form an army, so we can consider to rush the Pentagon with the MGL
The remaining Celtic city will be razed by armies.
IBT : ugh, forgot to check cities, two cities riot
We become a Monarchy
10) 750AD : 4th kills 2 spears and razes Verulamium, we crushed the first AI
We are short one settler, I did not consider this when razing the last Celtic city. Sorry.
Northern Pike
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Saving the Leader to allow discussion was a good idea, but I think we can use him for another empty army. The Pentagon can wait, first because we don't want unshippable four-unit armies yet, and second because we'll probably have opportunities to build it with later Leaders when we don't have enough cities for further armies anyway.
Northern Pike
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markh
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Northern Pike
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Edrine, Izmit, and New Iznik have lost a huge amount of population--due to starvation during anarchy, I assume. We can't wait for such important towns to replace the population by natural growth, so all three should be worker-merged up to size seven immediately. Then we can replace the merged workers with new ones from Istanbul and Bursa, if it seems necessary; it may not, given that more Celtic slaves will be reaching our core and unit costs are a problem.
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