Gr4 - AW Demigod, Standard Continents

[Greebley]

Greebley
TheRat
Barbslinger - Tell us when you can play...
Bezhukov - Just Played
Handy900 - Up
Bed_head7 - On Deck.


I would move the Westmost Pink dot on the coast one square SW. That way it is within 3 of River's Bend. Its always nice to have 2 towns that can donate their defender to a coastal town. In the current setup that one town is only supported by one city.

 

[Bezhukov]

I'd also like to move that hill city one tile north - with all the extra food, would like to reserve the opportunity to mine that hill. Given the surrounding geography, should be relatively easy to defend even without being on a hill.

 

[ThERat]

I would move the Westmost Pink dot on the coast one square SW

good point

I'd also like to move that hill city one tile north

if we talk about the same pink dot, you got to be careful since it would mean some 4tiles spacing

anyway I would us rather start to expand towards Russia and the choke, we can fill back later on. send out a curragh for some exploration as well

 

[handy900]

Greebley - I see I'm up in 2 SG's tonight. I'll play this first tonight and the AWD game after this one.

 

[Bezhukov]

"you got to be careful since it would mean some 4tiles spacing"

Yeah, but that's what I meant about the geography. With the way the land bends right there, a unit or two could be stationed on that hill to create a mini-choke, and to cover both cities in range at once. I think that spot north of the hill reaches 3 food bonuses (counting sugar) with expansion.

"anyway I would us rather start to expand towards Russia and the choke, we can fill back later on."

I was thinking this too initially, but given the potential productivity of our backfill sites and the risk of becoming overextended (Russia still has 7 cities, Persia 5), might make more sense to get our defensible lands developed first. Sure would like to get those wines, though.

 

[handy900]

Pre Turn
After the MP warriors complete we need some barracks.
I can see an Iron icon peeking out of a mountain tile in the fog 4 tiles E of Rostov.

IBT
Lose a jag
Den - Temple – 3 turn pony
West – MP warrior - barracks
See a Persian archer approach from the North

Turn 1 1475
Slave runs for home.
Archers healing on the hill under spear cover.

IBT
River Bend – MP – walls
Cow – MP - barracks

Turn 2 1450
Elite spear offs red lined archer.
Three Russian archers head toward Sugar.
There are now 2 Persian archers N of our borders.

Turn 3 1425

IBT
Russians ask for peace.
Now 5 Russian and 4 Persian archers head for our lands.
Den – Horse – spear
Fields – Settler – spear
Rivers Bend – walls – spear
Sugar – spear – spear
All the new units want to be paid, so slider drops and Alpha now due in 4.
All the cities exposed to Persia have walls and at two spears except the capital.
Den gets switched from horse to spear to get a 2 turn spears done. I like to have 2 spears behind walls instead of only1.

Turn 4 1400
We can build & shuffle units to cover the new settler if he moves to the southern dot map on the river, or hold him and place him in the core. I’ll save him until spear cover is built and settle another core. We need to get our capital off the front lines.

IBT
Russians turn around for 1 turn since I moved our archers onto flat land near their home. I’ll cover them with a spear next turn.

Turn 5 1375
Settler moves to blue dot next to the horses.
The slave is there also in case we have to sacrifice him to rush walls.
Persians are headed to the Capital, or perhaps Fields of Wheat S of the capital, which is lightly defended with no walls.
Pony slays a lone Persian archer and retreats.
Spear situation looks okay, so Den is switched from spear to pony.

IBT
Alpha – Math
West – barracks – spear

Turn 6 1350
Found Glue Factory next to the horses and start building walls. The archers are next door, so if we rush walls they won’t be done in time for the battle. I’m working forest to get the walls in 5, be sure to switch to food after the walls are done.
Math currently due in 13 @ 0gpt with 10 in the bank.
Shuffle tiles to get spears on the IBT in Wheat and River. Lots of MM opportunities.
MM moves math out a turn since we are working forest with no roads.

IBT
Lose 1 vet spear at the Glue factory, but another promotes.
Den – pony – pony
Wheat – spear – spear
River – Persian archer moved onto the wrong tile, which means our spear was delayed.

Turn 7 1325
Elite jag removed archer
Elite jag offs archer
Horse deletes archer
Vet jag erases a regular archer.
No more Persians, but also no leaders for the Aztecs.
We are #1 in pop, GNP and goods.
The action at St Pete went poorly. We had a stack of three archers and two spears. The first archer lost without making a dent in the regular spear. The second archer lost but took off 1 hp. When a healed spear appears the remaining archer and spear decided to just pillage as allowed and look around a bit since that assault was doomed to failure. Maybe if we park the stack next to successive Russian towns we can get Cathy to whip them.

IBT
As I take a bite of pasta the Elite spear as the Glue factory morphs into a leader.

Perhaps there is iron in our future after all. Now I wish I hadn’t burned those 2 archers in the St Pete campaign.
River – spear – archer.
Mayans complete the Pyramids. They are going to be strong in this game.

Turn 8 1300
The two spears & archer near St Pete begin to return home. We’ll need these spears to cover our army as it goes on a killing spree.
Leader goes to the Den and is loaded with the 2 horses there. The third horse is due in 2 turns.
I guess we want a horse army over archers. Archers are cheaper, but OTOH they don’t retreat either. A Horse can pick off 2 stray Russian archers & still move under the spears as it travels to the next destination. It’s a good homeland mobile defense force after pikes come in. We shouldn’t be attacking unless the army is fully healed, so retreat ability in not that big a deal.
Fields get switched to settler. The newly mined tiles will pump out spear cover more quickly, and our archer army is going to place Russia on the defensive, so we should be able to settle another city, maybe S of Wheat on the river. We need more cities for the unit support.
Swap some tiles to get Barracks in 1 in Cow.
Horse army sets off to shake down some barbs for cash.

IBT
Den – archer – archer
Sugar - archer – spear
Cow barracks – spear
Barb horsemen appear
Inca build the oracle
Maya build MoM
Hittites build SoZ
Spear beats archer @ Glue.

Turn 9 1275
Get 25 gold, pop the hut and kill all barbs N of River.
Jav will remain as a lookout on hill N of River so workers can safely improve tiles @ River. Barb horsemen killing workers is a major sin.

Turn 10 1250
Load the third horse in the army.
MM some – see the notes.

Note:
If we want the Glib we should switch the settler build in Fields of wheat to the Palace and mine those mountains and hills. Or start the pre build after the settler.
West of Wheat had to hire a scientist in 1250. You can built settler after the spear is done, or switch the spear to settler now.
I slowed growth in Den so it grows in 3 and gets a horse in three. Then you can get a 1-turn worker and go back to building horses.
Walls in Glue factory are due in 1, then let it work a food tile to grow.
Math in 8 –3gpt with 31 in the bank.

 

[handy900]

1250 bc

 

[Greebley]

Good work Handy. We are looking strong. I agree a military campaign vs the Russians with the army seems in order. Remember to defend it since it is only defense 1. If it loses 1/2 its hit points it could be attacked. I would also like to see us continue to grow if we can.

Neither Russsia, Persia, or Ourselves have iron yet. I am hoping there is some on our continent.

I think we do need the GLib. I would Switch Fields of Wheat to a Palace and West of Wheat could build the settler.

 

[handy900]

Neither Russsia, Persia, or Ourselves have iron yet. I am hoping there is some on our continent.

I saw what looked like an Iron icon peeking out of a mountain tile in the fog 4 tiles E of Rostov.

I think we do need the GLib. I would Switch Fields of Wheat to a Palace and West of Wheat could build the settler.

100% agree.

Remember to defend it [army] since it is only defense 1.

Very important point. There are 2 spears on a hill due east of the Glue Factory that can meet up with the army and provide cover. Don't get impatient with the army. Only attack if the army is green. Remember, armies can heal in enemy territory. If it take 3 or 5 tunrs to raze a city, so be it. :hammer;

 

[bed_head7]

1225 BC (1) - Send the army to Yaroslavl' and take out a spear.

IT - Three archers outside Glue Factory, two attack and one spear lost.

1200 BC (2) - Army razes Yaroslavl'. Pick up two slaves.

1175 BC (3) - Jaguar's Den grows, and the options are raise lux or hire a taxman, so I hire a taxman.

1125 BC (5) - Raze St. Petersburg.

1025 BC (9) - Found Horsies on a Hill, making us a step closer to the wines. Kill a couple Persian archers.

1000 BC (10) - Take out a couple of Persian spearmen. Raze Vladivostok. Having an army this early sure is nice.

Notes - Move the jag in Glue Factory back to Fields of Wheat for MP duty, and bring the spearman back over. I made the switch this turn in order to keep order in FoW, as there were no units around Glue Factory. I haven't done much AW, so I am not sure what sort of balance we want to strick between crippling the opponent/expanding/protecting what we have. My instinct would be to cripple opponent/expand, but I opted to play a bit more carefully here, and after the fact it feels too careful. So let me know. Only one city built, and no settlers in production, just feels weird.

There are some undefended slaves roading towards the wine. I want to get that hooked up to help with our happiness issues. So far, no problems with that, as there is a spear there moving along as permanent defense and other units around to step in.

I also forgot to mention that we learned Math, and started Writing due in six or seven turns.

 

[ThERat]

good progress

hope you are right, handy! we need iron. as for the army, as long as we fith spears, a green army could attack, its so fast to retreat, so keep those cover spears within distance, that should do the trick.

are we not thinking of sending a curragh or galley for some recon trip.


EDIT: greebley, read the instructions again, so it's ok to send out the army more than 5 tiles if we do not pillage and bypass cities, but merely raze?

 

[handy900]

Keep pressing and razing with the army and it's spear escorts.

Jaguar Den pulls 10 shields, so when it grows to the point it must hire a specialist you can then build a 1 turn worker. The Den will still pull 10 shileds the next turn for 3 turn ponies since the specialist is the citizen that became the worker. A 10 shield city is very handy. Watch the Den's food box, nd when it gets full, peel off another worker.

When our other cities grow beyond what the MP can handle, build a settler to knock the pop back down. We get 4 free unit support for each city, so we need to be building settlers all the time at this phase of the game. We still have core cities spots to settle toward Persia. Make sure you bring at least 2 spears to each new city that will be on the front lines. If the city is in a very hot battle zone, you can bring a slave or worker, join him to the city and then rush the walls.

The army will raze cities much faster than we can settle, but that's okay. It cripples the AI. The AI will build settlers for the empty land, and you can collect slaves when you have the opportunity. Don't fret if the AI settles a city in land you recently razed, it will be easy to raze again since the garrison will be small. Keep the pressure on with that army.

greebley, read the instructions again, so it's ok to send out the army more than 5 tiles if we do not pillage and bypass cities, but merely raze?

99.9% sure that's a yes.

Be careful not to underbuild spears. We need them for defense on the front lines until we can get our cat count up. We are building cats somewhere now that we have math - right?

 

[Greebley]

greebley, read the instructions again, so it's ok to send out the army more than 5 tiles if we do not pillage and bypass cities, but merely raze?

This is correct. There is no limit on razing cities in terms of distance.

It looks like I am up too. I got it.

 

[bed_head7]

There is one cat in progress. I suppose it should be more. I built mostly horsemen and only a couple of spearmen, and I totally forgot about peeling a worker off Jaguar Den even though you recommended it, handy. It is also hard to build a settler in a city that is doing a good number for horsemen like 8spt, but next time around I will do that.

 

[Greebley]

I think it was a very good turn. Concentrating on military is a good choice too in this situation. We are on a major offensive vs Russia and it would nice to go for some of Persia as well.

I will look into building settlers. We need them, but I also would like to keep our initiative with the Military.

 

[handy900]

I think it was a very good turn.

Me too. Razing Russian cities will allow us to grab the wines our armies crave and put the hurt on Persia before they put it on us.

I totally forgot about peeling a worker off Jaguar Den

Not a big deal. We all get better when we offer constructive ideas to each other.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Things look pretty good. I do switch another bigger town to Catapults.

Early: Army Heals and then heads toward Moscow. Build a second force of Horsemen for the other Russian towns. MM Fields of Wheat to get the palace quicker.
It also occurs to me that if I can get the palace to be worth 400 shields then I don't have to slow down to get Literature. Switch to settlers for some towns.

Mid: Attack on Moscow succeeds with no Losses We capture it. Attack on Rostov autodestroys the city.

We get the FP message.

Late: Horsemen that attacked Rostov are healing and waiting for the Army.

Notes:
I have MM'ed Literature to be in 6 turns at the cost of the growth of our little towns. Palace builds in 7. After we place the next town check to see if the palace jumps to 400 shields. In which case we have more time and you can put the scientists back to work.

I built enough towns that we not paying any unit cost. We are up to 12 (including Moscow) and will build one more. I will mark where I would put it on the map. When we get wines we can reduce Lux and may be able to get Lit in 6 turns by raising science and firing the scientists.

We should have wines soon

Does anyone know for sure at what size our palace is 400 shields. I think it is 13 or 14. If 13 doesn't work we can try to capture Yakusk.

Russia is pretty much dead. She has 3 towns total with Yakusk (size 2) as the capitol. That means the other two are size 1 and 2 also and no town will have any buildings.

I saw ZERO Persian troops. I strongly suspect we share the continent with a 3rd AI with Persia and the other AI being at war.

Switch Towns building regular spearman to walls or something. I forgot to set some towns I settled and captured

 

[ThERat]

look at the starting positions of Persepolis and moskow and it's no wonder they are doing so badly.

Got it, will also try and get a dingy out to explore a little, we need more Ai's in war mode now that we can 'control' the main Island

 

[Greebley]

I was thinking of delaying contact. IF we get the GLib it doesn't matter how technically advanced the AI gets. When we meet them we get the techs.

I also think "war mode" has very little effect on an AI if they are doing the attacking. In PTW, there was a noticable slowdown. I am not at all sure that is true anymore. They just burn the normal units they would build anyway.

Now if we were attacking them there is a very visible effect.

 

[handy900]

Excellent progress!

Good builds in corrupt cities are cats and workers. You don't need a barracks to build cats.

Also - don't mine corrupt cities - irrigate them. As an agricultural civ a size 6 city irrigated supports 3 scientists with grass irrigated.

I also think "war mode" has very little effect on an AI if they are doing the attacking. In PTW, there was a noticable slowdown. I am not at all sure that is true anymore. They just burn the normal units they would build anyway.

I'm not so sure. I like the thought of flushing archer after archer in a regular stream versus seeing a huge stack that the AI has accumulated over a long period. It also seems like the people you have not met have a huge empire since they have been building settlers instead of archers. This is just an opinion from observation, and my opinion could be skewed from PTW and be totally wrong. I think my AW style also affects my opinion. I tend to try to get people in wars early, build lots of cats & spears, get an attack army and then start grinding the AI down with an artillery/army steamroller. Also, war mode is more important in a wonderless game where you know you'll be behind in techs and have to flush a lot of shields to slow those guys down. For those who care, I'm testing the "get them in war mode early" concept on Sid using a regular size island map here. But that's islands, which play a lot differently.


With that said, in this game we may want to delay meeting another civ if we can until we rid oursilves of the two we have met.

Very good news for us in this game. Given this is AWDG, we are on the offensive very early before we have any artillery which is a very good thing. We also have great homelands and the right civ to take advantage of it.