GR6 - Persia II - AW Demigod.

Northern Pike said:
Vxma, thanks for the valuable information. Are the data in the AA (that is, non-SAM) category meant to apply to all units with an AA value, or just flak units?
You are welcome, I do not have a definitive answer, as I do not know for sure. My guess is that it does.

If you ignore the cost (and I would), I would use flak for front lines and some fighters in near by towns, once you have them. I find it a toss up in effectivemess, but fighters can shoot down bombers that do not bomb the city or stack and flaks can only shoot down bombers that attack their tile.

I put flaks with the fighters as bombardment can damage or destroy the planes. It was so much easier before lethal bombardment.
 
T_McC said:
Pillaging around the city before the Bombers are taken care of will only be a temporary solution as we can't spread the armies out to ensure that the tiles couldn't be repaired.

It's not a perfect solution, granted, but it's better than you're implying, because

1. When an AI civ is choking on its unit costs it won't build workers no matter how much it needs them, a point clearly established by Handy, and

2. The AI doesn't seem to understand the principle of providing its workers with escorts, so one army stack in range of several pillaged tiles can prevent repairs to any of them.
 
GR6 - Battening Down the Hatches!

1750 AD (0)
Oh boy, is this going to take a while. Let's go for a sparse report with a bunch of pictures.

The UN has not been started. We have 47% land area and 62% pop. We need something on the order of 520 tiles to reach domination. The Ottomans have 20% land area in 2nd place. 520 tiles is something like 18 cities with judicious placement, or 30 without. Yup, this is going to be a while.

The Celts have 7 Bombers and ~260 defensive units. I suspect that would mean an average of 15 units in each city. :eek: Maybe we need to look for an alternate target. Once we get Bombers of our own we can probably suck up a bunch of the Celt units.

I would almost guess that the Celts lack aluminum as they don't have any units that require the resource. If they actually don't have the stuff, we can only lose by UN vote.

Begin by safely stealing the WM from England. We now know where the Celt Oil is located ... by Richborough, on the opposite side of the continent from our Armies. Need Bombers soon! When we nail it, they cannot import any from another nation. If we can get to Bombers and Tanks, we're home free.

<Return>

1755 AD (1)
Lose a Galleon to a Sub, get bombed a few times. Start a couple of Courthouses in anticipation of stealing Flight. 50 spt = 2-turn Bombers.

It will cost 3222 gold to steal a tech from the Celts. We'll have that in 4 turns.

One more turn of waiting and the we can go after Entremont. Probably on turn 3.

Then have a colossal MP mess as the trade route to the beachhead gets cut off.

1754 AD (2)
It's kind of cute the way the Celts drop units off on one turn and then they retreat on the next.

A few riots nonetheless, and someone dropped off some units somewhere. Oh, and somewhere in there we lost an Army. Methinks the Beachhead is going to be lost next turn.

Dispatch the invasion and set up to attack Entremont next turn. I think the Celts go before the English, so the Beachhead city should be safe. Actually, I just thought of something sneaky ...

1756 AD (3)
The Bridgehead city is lost to the English! I never suspected that a single Cav could beat an Infantry behind Walls, but what do you know? I would have abandoned the city on our turn anyway.

Three rounds of pollution, no landings. Recapture Beachhead and scuttle about 8 MoW in the process. :)

Take a break to play Frisbee.

Abandon Beachhead. We cannot hold it without multiple Infantry armies and some artillery. Once we get Flight and can knock out the Celt Oil we can regain control of the seas. It is pointless to venture out with boats until we can start to thin out the Celt fleet.

Mediocre bombardment and then lose 18 or 19 HP in killing 1 TOW. This is gonna take a while. Hopefully I can trick them into drafting Entremont back below Metro.

1758 AD (4)
The bombing is becoming more intense on the Celt continent. We also get a 2 TOW and 6 Cav landing in ex-Arabia. Dispatch without loss.

Lose 3 ships to subs, unfortunately the game won't let me bombard tiles where I can't see the units.

Bomb and kill 1 more TOW in Entremont. C'mon, you know you want to draft it down! Our entire invasion force might just go up in flames from the Bombers. We can't reach the Oil from here.

Investigate size-1 Batshireet and realize the Garrison is 22 units. I'm not entirely sure how we're going to win this thing, except "Tank Armies".

1760 AD (5)
A dozen units land on our shores. Safely steal Flight from the Celts.

The Celts only have 9 units defending Entremont, but they also have a Civil Defense that our Artillery isn't hitting even though I thought that was supposed to be the first thing to go.

Kill the dozen units that landed. Now back to Entremont ... kill 3 TOW, leaving a full health Cav army and the Infantry army to defend the stack. The Fortress on the mountain will probably finish just as I'm ready to leave.

Start a number of Airports and a few Fighters and Bombers. Want vet Fighters for sure, and vet Bombers wouldn't hurt.

1762 AD (6)
Dispatch another Celt landing. Really pondering how we are going to win this.


.... Continued ....

With the "plan", we don't have as much need to steal techs right now. So upgrade four Galleons to Transports. The trip can be made in 2 turns, and I think we can lay-over in a spot that is out of reach of the southern Celt Bombers. I'm not sure the fleet will sail on my turns, but I can assemble it. I will aim for 4 Transports, a pair with 4 Flak each and a pair with defensive units. We already have the settler on the mainland.

Then upgrade a fifth Transport. This one will go west to snag the Celt Oil.

The Celts only have three Subs, so something will have to get through if we don't get attacked by Bombers.

Next turn I will try to starve Entremont.

Arbela is on an Airport as a pre-build for another Army. We could lose another one here soon.

1764 AD (7)
It's starting to look grim for our Infantry Army. Even in a Fortress on a Mountain the Bombers aren't missing much.

At least one of the Celt Subs is chasing Mongol ships. This just might work.

Kill off a couple of landings. The Ottomans land next to the undefended city in ex-Arabia, the Celts land next to Tureng.

Remove about 6 food from Entremont.

The Western Fleet should have a 2 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser escort. The Eastern Fleet looks to have 3 Destroyers and whatever Frigates you choose to put out there. Frigates might make good sub bait.

1766 AD (8)
Lose the 1-member Cav Army attacking a Sipahi that was escorting an Ottoman settler. :rolleyes: Oh well, we were at our limit anyway so swap Arbela from Airport to Army. I kind of figured we'd lose one, just not this way.

Suicide missions, food deprivation completed around Entremont. Maybe it will starve now.

GR6_InCelt.JPG


Entremont should starve in 3 turns, so the next player might get a shot at doing something interesting. Unfortunately, they still have money so the troop count will go up. On the good side, no Aluminum. :)

1768 AD (9)
Destroyer finds a Celt Sub. Bring in the Artillery to red-line and then let 'em have it with the "Ash Cans of Doom!". Nuts. They still have 3 Subs in the water.

Use our first Bomber to sink an injured Celt Destroyer. They have 4 more of those. The Celts are doing a beautiful (or lucky) job of not having their boat stacks end up in range of our Artillery. I guess we need more Bombers to defend our shores.

Good bombardment round at Entremont, but we're not in a hurry. I'll wait until the Metro defensive bonus is gone. So up to the next guy. We actually aren't in any danger of losing an Army there, we have too many armies for a sufficiently injured one to end up on top.

Now the Celts are trying to sneak in a city by the Silks. This could be problematic as we aren't yet ready to launch.

There are Bombers based in Tabriz, so we'll need to cover the Transports with multiple Destroyers.

1770 AD (10)
The Celts land 17 units by Tareng. Good we have so much Artillery already over there.

While killing a landing in ex-Arabia, finally pop an MGL on this round. Unused, probably best put towards an Airport over there. Or maybe not, we can build an Airfield on territory we control.

Kill the group of 17 that landed at a loss of 1 Cavalry.

Final Notes:
The fleet could launch on this turn. I leave it up to the next player whether it goes now, or whether we wait another turn. Big logistics picture to follow.

The Leader is also unmoved. We can go one over our army limit if we so choose, but that requires getting this guy out of ex-Arabia. We have the units to fill a Cav army on the island, but we only two steals from Tanks so it might be better to wait. It would be easier to fill an empty army on our home island.

We could safely steal another tech in 2 turns, but we probably need to conserve some cash to rush stuff at the Beachhead. If we don't intend to open the path to it we may only need a Harbor as we can build an Airstrip on the tile next to it. (Assuming we re-found on the rubble). And Barracks are always useful.

I suspect we are at the final tipping point. The Celts have < 20 turns to build the UN before we have a Bomber SOD. Once we the SOD, they will no longer be able to invade our territory and we can ruin any and all cities in front of us.

The Western Fleet has to spend 3 turns at sea, and I don't think it can launch on this turn. We also probably want more units in that stack. Be careful about pulling stuff out of our mainland cities, we have MP problems.
 
:scan: :scan:
Looking for the save...
 
Now the logistics:

There are Bombers based in the red circles and we'd like to make it to the blue dot. We disembark from Kandahar. The Celts have Carriers, but none of their planes are based on them.

The yellow dot can be reached by all members of the eastern fleet, but it is within range of the bombers from both southern cities. With the stack we're sending nothing should be vulnerable to the lethal bombard due to the sheer volume of units. The open yellow circles are locations for Frigates to serve as sub screens. Anything between this and the shore should be seen by the Destroyers (take a circuitous route to the yellow dot with at least 1 of the Destroyers, and use one to cover the stack of transports 1 move at a time.) This strategy can be defeated, but only if the AI gets really lucky with the troop order. (Lethal bomb on the proper Frigate, then a Sub happens to be on the right square to target our transports.)

On the 2nd turn the fleet heads along the pink vector, stopping once to drop off units and then moving 1 more tile to close off access to the city.

The Celts can screw this up a bit by the units in the blue-ish circle. They can beat us to a spot to found. No big deal, maybe we get lucky and they re-base their bombers to the new city so when we whack it they go poof. They do not have an SOD accompanying the settler, only a single TOW. Destroyers can bomb the new city and the existing Cav army can burn it.

Because we have to move the existing Cav army we should bring a 2nd Army along on the Transports. The blue circles on our continent are the armies I detailed for the assignment. The Cav army conspicuously did not participate in dispatching the 17 Celt invaders on the last turn so it would be full health upon landing.

You have 8 Flak to send along, plus the two armies, plus whatever spare troops you can scrounge up. I am not concerned with the Celt surface fleet as they seem to be primarily tied up in escort duty. Subs are a concern, but the Celts would have to have a sub in a really unlucky spot to get us.
 
In the west: (and you thought the other picture was big. :p )

The red circle is the only Celt Oil. That looks like 3 full turns from Antioch. We have ships in port with partial movement, so I don't think we could go this turn even if we wanted to. There is an Infantry army already standing by the city, and one of our nearby cities can do an Explorer/turn. But I think we want enough additional troops to require a 2nd transport. Two Explorers to snip the oil on the 1st turn after landing, 4 slaves to walk along with the army and build a Fortress/Barricade once the Army sits on the oil. If we filled up a 2nd transport and brought 2 native workers and 4 slaves, I think we could build the Fortress and Barricade in 1 turn each.
 
got it, this sounds pretty exciting now. I think i will launch the fleet before the 1st IT.
 
an update for all lurkers of the first 5 turns, playing still

Pre-Turn
MM a bit, trying to optimize some shields, get Sidon to 50spt
go through every town, all looks pretty good, assign a few tiles differently
send out all transports with 8 flak, 1 inf army, 1 cav army, some spare inf
the fleet is quite a sight, cross my fingers for the IT
gr51770.jpg

IT Bad news, Mongols and Celts sign peace, I hope they stay mobilized
then the pounding starts, 6 bombers pound our inf army near Entremont, 2 bomber attack our transports covered by
3 destroyer and 1 of them is shot down. And the frigatte shield works as 2 of them are sunk by subs
but our transports are unharmed :dance:
Celts start Hoover, that means they are no longer mobilized :confused:

1. 1772AD
bomb both subs to 2hp and sink them
kill that pesky settler pair so that we can found the city unharmed
pound and easily take apart a Celt stack of 6
bring leader back home safely
pound Entremont and count 7 ToW's, use 2 armies to kill 4 of them
that's enough for now

IT get a scary warrior landing :lol:
great, all their bombers concentrate on taking out our Entremont inf army instead of taking on the beachhead
Celt shift Hoover to another town from Entremont, guess we killed too many units there

2. 1774AD
build beachhead 2, fill it with 4 flaks, send over fighters as well, build an airfield, fill with 4 flak
the armies serve to block off access, also using flak to cover
contemplate about our 4 bombers, decide to shift them over as well, all or nothing now
gr51774.jpg


Siege of Entremont, bombardment reveals only 3 ToW's, after bombing them to 1hp each, mobile sam shows up
attack, manage to take out 2 rifles, 2 mobile sams, 2 Tow's have only wounded armies.
2 healthy armies left to protect the stack, there are only 2 units left, pull out healthy Cav army and kill Tow

a 2hp rifle left, decide to risk now or never and :band:

gr51774b.jpg

cav army runs onto a mountain, but will be killed for sure
by bombers in the IT
carefully steal a tech from Celts, one more to tanks

IT 4 bombers attack beachhead armies, none shot down, the Cav army is gone

3. 1776AD
what's next, start pulling SOD towards Alesia (Hoover build), all cav armies heavily wounded, Inf army full healed
4 bombers attack Segusa, 1 shot down, 1 deletes rax, the other 2 wound a fighter and bomber
decide to send over the inf army to occupy the oil
lower lux to 0% since we have 5th lux online again

IT 6 bomber attack, none shot down, we hand build another army

4. 1778AD
SOD takes a rest to heal a little before continuing
take out a few units overseas on our Islands, inf army one turn from landing
1 bombers is shot down but we kill 1 bomber ourselves

IT only 3 bombers attack and 1 is shot down, maybe they are starting to relocate bombers due to our inf army

5. 1780AD
decide to fill another inf army and send over as well to help cover in case bombers left over
check Tabriz for 14g, they have 2 bombers, time to take them out, lose another bomber, check again 5 bomber total left
land inf army
gr51780.jpg

while taking out English cavs get another leader
since this is far from our homeland, rush a factory with it
 
Lurker's comment:

Wouldn't it be better to build an airfied next to the beachhead city? That way your own planes wouldn't be shot down when they attack the city. (Edit: nevermind I didn't read your post carefully enough.)

Excellent game by the way! I've learnt a lot from reading this. Good luck!
 
Lots to read since I last checked in. Sounds liken the plan is going well for us. One more steal to tanks and the modern Era. We are scientific and get a Freebie tech too.

I was a bit worried there that the restrictions on our movement/pillaging might kill us, but it sounds like we are overcoming the difficulties with good planning. :goodjob:
 
take them out

continued
decide it's time to send some more arty over, ship 2 transports full of them

IT 1 bomber attacks transport with arty, newly landed inf isn't even touched
sub take out empty transport that just dropped inf army
16 untis land on Islands

6. 1782AD
barely manage to take out 14 units (10 in one landing), two 1hp Tow left
investigate Tabriz, 1 bomber left, manage to take out fighter + bomber, now Celts have 4 of them left
investigate Batshireet. at least 1 bomber
spot both subs, wound 1 to 2hp attack 2nd sub and manage to take it out, they have only 1 left atm
land 12 arty and pull towards Batshireet, cover with army and flak
SoD now in front of Alesia
inf army covers oil, finally steal carefully and succeed, MT is ours :dance:
switch some builds to tanks

IT get 1 bombardment of advancing Cav army without any consequences, 1hp ToW's attack our pike defending the town and
one actually loses to them :lol:

7. 1784AD
mine a tile at Persepolis, it starves 1 per turn, but is at 50spt, we can do that for quite a while before irrigating again
Celts have 7 bombers again. fill army with 1 tank and send it over to beachhead
lose 3 bombers killing 1 of theirs and 1 fighter, destroyers manage to kill a fighter in port
in order to decide on tactics, investigate Alesia, no more building a wonder
gr51784.jpg

well, 7 defenders only, start pounding it and the sourrounding, let armies heal 1 more turn

IT 4 bombers go after our SoD

8. 1786AD
1 tank army lands with more arty
manage to take out another bomber but lose one
the problem is that Batsireet is filled with countless units, maybe 40-50, how to take that out before advancing?
pounding of Alesia not really sucessful, 3 moer tanks airlifted, pull a suicide stunt of an explorer trying the empty towns

IT wow, Ottoman pull out a lot of units, but explorer get caught, hope it worked a little

9. 230AD
since this won't work, decide to drop tank army at Rutupiae, since we are allowed to drop at beaches
pull back arty and units and load 2 armies to be dropped at another spot
landing spots occupied, many units around, hope this will work
this is a deadlock situation now
lose a bomber but manage to take out 2 bombers, 1 fighter and 1 destroyer in Tabriz, manage to sink 1 sub
turn attention to Segusio, to let Alesia drop in pop first
8 units in there, kill 4 but pull armies back

IT we are lucky and the transports don't get attacked, sub stops short of 1 tile. bombers still try luck at inf army

and then it comes :eek:


Celts start UN in Lugundum
gr51790.jpg


10. 250AD
we have 13 turns left to take out this city, but it is placed, pretty central and we are not allowed to bypass cities.
we can use our money to buy time and sabotage production later on
decide to drop armies as close as possible to Lugundum
manage to take out last celt sub. they still have 5 bombers left. we lost almost all bombers anyway




now for the big battleplan
currently 2 armies at Nemausus (Cav + Tank army), take it out 1st
then move towards Cataractonium and finally Lugundum
meanwhile SoD is moving towards Glevum to take that out and join 2 other armies
there is an army ready in 2 to be filled with tanks on mainland. transports and escorts are ready
fill with as many units as possible (we will have 3 transports) and no danger since all subs are defeated
that army group to land at Augustodorum. On top of the oil are 2 armies, 1 could join via sea
all should reach Lugundum on time, as said buy time with sabotage, we currently have 2953g and make 639g per turn

gr51790b.jpg


next player please do some MM, I didn't really check this turn
and the explorer at the oil can pillage as well this turn
 
I got it.

With tank armies I think we have a decent chance of taking out the city. Hard to be sure without looking at the save.

I am guessing that we need atomic theory and electronics for the free Modern tech? Forgot about those in my previous post...

Greebley - Up
LK - On Deck
Northern Pike
T McC
ThERat - Just Played.
 
Couple of things to note:

The Celts have no Uranium, so definitely no nukes for them. Since they can't get oil and can already build TOWs, maybe we could use the Infantry army on the rubber for better purposes? If it's really needed, it's an option.

I kind of thought Rat would have a fun round. Thirteen turns to burn the UN is no problem. Only thing to be careful of is that the Celts might be able to forward-cascade a Hoover build to UN.
 
Quite a round. :goodjob:

Greebley, how do the bypassing rules apply in this situation? My interpretation would be that our long-established army stack got as far as the ruins of Entremont legitimately, and so would be entitled to advance on Lugdunum taking nothing but Monguntiacum on the way--and even that might be optional, since Mont. is a replacement foundation almost on the site of a city we've already dealt with, a situation I wouldn't imagine you had in mind when you devised the bypassing rules.

I would also assume that the route Nemausus --> Glevum --> (possibly) Monguntiacum --> Lugdunum would be valid for our newly landed armies, so that we could avoid attacking Cataractonium altogether. But it's your call, so let us know.
 
yes, T_McC, it was initially one of the most amazing turnsets I ever played. Had to think a lot and strategize, it's really fun.
I also think we can prevent that built, the only issue is that we should start our own prebuild else we keep on chasing one UN build after another, I totally forgot about that.

Greebleys handicap really gives us a hard time here. I think we should disband those 2 immortal armies we have, really obsolete and to be replaced by tank armies
 
T_McC said:
The Celts have no Uranium, so definitely no nukes for them. Since they can't get oil and can already build TOWs, maybe we could use the Infantry army on the rubber for better purposes? If it's really needed, it's an option.

The Celts could give us a lot of trouble with marines. We can't let them have rubber.

The Ottoman rubber tile southeast of Alesia is now the only one we don't occupy or control. I know we have a lot of other things to deal with, but we should think about grabbing it.

The explorer on the rubber tile should be awakened to join our main army stack. This is important, since that stack is out of explorers.

BTW, Rat's save shows up as absurdly large--2.66 MB. Is there anything sinister about this? :confused:
 
yes, you are right...about the huge size, what is this???? didn't even realize..let me check

edit: checked the save, moved the explorers and saved again, now back to normal size. should be ok now
 
by the way, we could steal now already, although immediately, we should try and get amphibious warfare to eliminate the Egyptians, that would be one vote less for Celts. I assume Mongols won't vote for them.
So, Celts then have only England and Ottoman as their hope.
 
ThERat said:
now back to normal size. should be ok now

Thanks for sorting that out.

Regarding a steal of AW, I like the idea, but our spy with the Celts is so valuable in letting us look into their cities that I don't think we should risk him in anything other than safe steals.
 
I did have the replacement case in mind with the rules. If you want to go back the way you came and a civ puts in a new city, then you need to take it out.

If you have already bypassed the rebuilt city, you can continue onward.

That said, I think the chain:

Nemausus --> Glevum --> Monguntiacum --> Lugdum would be fine.
 
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