GR6 - Persia II - AW Demigod.

Subjectively, I prefer guaranteed results with self-research to the uncertainty of stealing too. But as we move along the IA tech chart, research times will increase while theft costs stay about the same. So I think we have to make the commitment to stealing as our tech strategy now.

Whether we're stealing or researching, Steel next sounds fine to me.
 
it seems we are stuck and progress it too slow. How can we speed this up? I think we should try and lure the units out of their towns by exposing units next to our town on the Celt Island. Hoepfully the AI will send a ton of units there and we can nicely set up attacks on the depleted towns.

we need communism I think. With no money for rushes we can invest heavily in stealing and believe me we would have a ton of it in communism (think about the unit support and decreased corruption).
I'd say IA as soon as possible, then steal all the way to MT and flight
 
Note that I would use the stack guarding the rubber to raze cities. It is probably a good idea to leave one Cavalry army behind, but the rest of the stack can and should be walking into Celt territory to destroy the cities.

It is only by coincidence the stack is near the rubber. It took that long for the artillery to walk there from the town.

Keep to the hills and mountains as much as possible. Otherwise tanks may become an issue.

In other words, the game shouldn't be stagnant IMO. Cav armies backed by 12 artillery can destroy cities. We also need to find the Celt Oil to stop tanks.

I think we need transports and Anti-air. I would go for steel. Once we have transports I would then take out England.

I would buiild the Intell Agency now. Techs will be worth stealing but it takes time to set up. If nothing else, planting a spy will show us the Celtic forces and tell us when the get tanks. Also steals will be worthwhile soon enough.
 
Agreed we should be able to raze Celt cities, if they didn't have Rubber it's no different than fighting Rifles. We are in a race against them getting TOW.

Can we see the Celt oil? I don't think the variant precludes a Cav army running around busting fog. Or, preferably, a handful of Explorers doing the same.

I don't think we can worry about Hoover's. Let's get to Tanks ASAP. It's too late to divert to Communism as I don't think we can afford the Anarchy turns. We aren't losing very many troops so low production isn't hurting us too much. Maybe we switch to all cash/taxmen once we get to Tanks to try to hustle some builds along.

Next Leader for the IA?
 
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/GR6-1700AD.zip

1685 AD
I don't think I have even seen the AI completely blockade a port before. I have to get an opening back to Bridgehead by killing 1 frigate. (43-2)
After killing that frigate I am totally baffled why we still can't get silks to the mainland.

I kill 1 privateer and 3 cavalry. (47-2)

I get to hunt down the Celts whom landed at New Zohak this time. This is a totally different spot then all of the other AI landings in Arabia. I kill the same combination of 2 cavalry, 2 guerillas and 2 riflemen that the Celts have sent before.
(IT) We have hit the army count limit.

A privateer commits suicide against our ship stack. (48-2)


1690 AD
I kill a privateer near Egypt. (49-2)
I kill of some stray garbage near bridgehead. 2 longbows, 1 cavalry, and 1 rifleman are killed. (53-2)


1695 AD
Once again I killed a frigate that I bombed to 1 HP. (50-2)

The Ottomans get serious. I see my first landing with infantry. There are 2 infantry and 2 guerillas by New Zohak. I don't know why that has suddenly become the preferred AI city. I killed the stack with the 2 armies, but both are yellow-lined.


I was going to try to advance the stack into Celtic territory. However, the Celts are again trying to former a rubber city. I killed 3 flak, 1 rifleman, 2 guerillas and a settler. (56-2)
(IT) We lost a frigate from the big naval stack. (56-3)
The bombers are back with a vengeance. The infantry army gets pounded hard.


1700 AD
I killed the frigate that attacked the stack. (57-3)
I killed the following by Bridgehead: 1 longbow and 1 cavalry. (59-3)

I killed 1 cavalry, 2 flak, 4 guerillas and 1 settler. The Celts won't give up trying to build the rubber town. (67-3)

I plant our first spy with the Celts. The rest can wait a few turns to keep cash above $1,000.


==========================

Summary:
Wall Street has been completed, and we have $1,000 for maximum interest. The spy agency has also been completed.


I got two partial armies over from Egypt. Additional cavalry need to be added to the to get them into the fray.


One really good thing about Bridgehead has been the number of AI landing by it. The troops then stare at the armies and walk away. This is keeping the number of landings down that could hurt us.


I expect Northern Pike to have an extremely blood turn. He will be able to open up Bridge to attack once this stack arrives.
LAK-855.jpg


10 infantry plus the 1 already there should be able to hold of any AI attacks. I build walls, and barracks in the city. All the cavalry will fill up the 2 incomplete armies by Bridgehead. The last army is NPs choice of infantry or cavalry. I would prefer cavalry, as there would be enough armies to destroy all the stray cities near Bridgehead. After that they can join with the stack on the Celtic border and rip the Celts apart. Even though it will be very bloody, I really wish I had NPs turn.


We need to get some artillery to Arabia with the infantry starting to show up. I wouldn't mind a couple of infantry to give us the option to defend. I have a stray galleon trying to move down the coast to be able to shuttle something over.


Signed up:
Greebley
LKendter
Northern Pike (currently playing)
T_McC (on deck)
ThERat
 
Got it. Thanks for the thorough set-up. :goodjob:
 
1700 (0): LK has left me a little alertness test :D--six Celtic units near Bampur and an English cav in Egypt. We destroy them all (7-0).

I MM a fair amount, transferring some of the capital's wasted production (it's at 64 spt) to Sardis, helping Ghulaman (which is a serious city now) at the expense of the nerd camps ;) around it, and merging seven native workers into core towns below their potential.

It's too late to fix this now, since we're about to abandon self-research, but we've left some of our core cities without universities, although we get them at half-price.

Disaster strikes our reinforcement fleet, as two submarines stealth-attack it and sink two galleons transporting eight inf (7-2). I'm going to have to abort the whole mission, since the galleons would have to spend another interturn at sea and only one could be expected to reach Bridgehead. What's really regrettable about this is that now we'll be too weak around Bridgehead to open up the way to the city for luring purposes, unless circumstances are ideal.


1705 (1): We defeat six Celtic and four Ottoman (two inf and two Sips) units landed next to New Zohak in Arabia, but we have to make some pretty dubious attacks to do it, and we're lucky to lose only an Immortal (17-3). LK is right--we're far too weak in Arabia.

Our exploring frigate discovers a southern island held by the English and Mongols.

Our fleet flees back to Kandahar.

One of our frigates defeats the attack of a Mongol frigate (18-3).


1710 (2): We ship four artillery to Arabia.


1715 (3): More reinforcements arrive in Arabia.

We lose two empty galleons, one to a submarine and one to a Celtic battleship (18-5). Naval movement has become just about impossible.

I suppose the rest of you have noticed this before, but one frigate makes a useless escort for one galleon, since the program decides that the galleon should defend so that the frigate can use defensive bombardment.


1720 (4): Research down to 0%, Steel still due this IT with most of our scientists turned into taxmen. We're now at 527 gpt.

We wipe out four Ottoman units landed near Fustat (22-5).

We plant spies with the unimportant Egyptians and Mongols, while failing to plant them with the Ottomans and English.


1725 (5): I found five minor cities so that Arbela can build another army.

With the transition to a no-research economy complete, we're at 599 gpt.

We're finally able to move our strike force next to Eboracum. Since there aren't many enemy units around Bridgehead I take the risk of combining this with a luring move there.

A very disappointing interturn. First, the sequence of play hurts us, as the Ottomans react to the open path we've left to Bridgehead before the Celts do, and block it, so that the Celts don't move anything out of their cities. Then, at the last possible moment, a TOW inf appears in Eboracum. With both these factors operating against us, the attack looks impossible, especially as Eboracum is a size 13 hill town (though it was size 12 when I chose to advance on it--more wretched timing :mad: ).

Our exploring frigate, after being repeatedly ignored by Men-o-War for whatever reason, is finally sunk by one (22-6).


1730 (6): We eliminate a Celtic stack of six landed near Fustat (28-6). How long until their landings start to include TOW?

We trample two Sips and an English cav around Bridgehead, restoring our blockade there (31-6).

Finally, some good luck on the IT. The Mongols declare war on the Celts [pimp], and Celtic units pour out of their cities, producing a Sid-like stack of 140 on the Celtic-Mongol border.


1735 (7): I pay to look into Eboracum. The garrison consists of four TOW, three flak, an artillery, a fighter, and a worker.

The Celts are at 60% science, 40% cash, with three luxuries (dyes, incense, and gems). Eboracum is connected to one oil, two coal, two saltpetre, three iron, and three horses. The Celts are mobilized, unless they're in their GA, which seems absurd.

Even with the garrison (presumably) reduced, this is a questionable attack...but it's as good as we're going to get with our cav armies against the Celts now, I suppose. Our twelve artillery do well, redlining two TOW and yellowlining two. Our first cav army attacks the town, loses an admirably consistent 18 rounds in a row, and saves itself by retreating. But after this the RNG turns in our favour, and we eliminate the garrison without any further close calls (38-6). We capture an artillery and a worker, and raze the town for another six workers.

We crush a Celtic stack of six near New Zohak (44-6). No TOW in the landings yet.

We liquidate an Ottoman stack of three landed near Tureng Tepe (47-6).


1740 (8): We kill a single Ottoman guerilla landed in Egypt (48-6).

We expunge an Ottoman stack of four near New Zohak (52-6).

We successfully plant spies with the English and the Ottomans. England's army is very weak, so one factor in our favour is that we only have two serious opponents left.

The Celts have finished off the Mongols (on the continent), so their units start trickling back to their cities.


1745 (9): We ride down an English cav landed near New Bampur in Egypt (53-6).

Our armies heal, sort of--but healing in enemy territory while being bombed is a slow business.


1750 (10): We steal Combustion from the Celts (careful steal, 2416 gold).

Our strike force continues to heal, now in a fortress built by Celtic slaves. :lol:

We gun down a Mongol LB landed next to New Bampur in Egypt (54-6).

Well, I wish I'd achieved more, but after submarines and then TOW inf appeared at exactly the wrong time this was never going to be a round of sweeping conquests.

Six elite victories didn't produce a Great Leader this round.
 
I consider this a completed turn (apart from the actions suggested below), but because there weren't any serious landings and our strike force is still healing, almost all our units still have their movement. So you can do quite a lot before you press Enter, if you're so inclined.

If you're going to leave our army stack where it is to heal, which is what I would recommend, the slaves in the stack should definitely start building a barricade. We should finish artillery-pillaging the surrounding tiles, too.

Our army stack in the Celtic lands may be able to keep razing Celtic cities, but between its long healing periods and the one-tile-a-turn pace dictated by its artillery, it isn't likely to account for more than one a round. But now that we have Combustion and can build cruisers and destroyers, we should be able to resume sending reinforcements to Bridgehead before long, and restore some momentum to our offensive that way.

We have an infantry army on the famous rubber tile, now within a barricade, and the Celts haven't been bothering it at all.

Landings haven't been any problem recently, but that could change if the Celts start sending TOW inf, or if anything serious is attempted against Egypt, where we're weak with no safe means of reinforcement until we get a modern navy built.

Two things we should keep in mind as we plan strategy are that the Celts are apparently mobilized, and the English are extremely feeble (24 riflemen, a cav, a spearman, and no other ground combat units).

We can afford a careful steal against the Celts just about every four turns.

Our infrastructure position is very good now. Our strong cities all either have coal plants or will soon complete them, so we don't need Hoover.

We have an empty army in Persepolis.
 
Northern Pike said:
1700 (0): LK has left me a little alertness test :D--six Celtic units near Bampur and an English cav in Egypt. We destroy them all (7-0).
Well that was embarrassing. :blush:


Northern Pike said:
Disaster strikes our reinforcement fleet, as two submarines stealth-attack it and sink two galleons transporting eight inf (7-2).
I agree with the word disaster. My whole turn was to setup the ability to open up bridgehead and get those other 2 armies filled.

Northern Pike said:
But now that we have Combustion and can build cruisers and destroyers, we should be able to resume sending reinforcements to Bridgehead before long, and restore some momentum to our offensive that way.
I have to agree this is the #1 goal. We really need to be able to reinforce the islands, including the main one.
 
well played NP. That was a rude awakening to get hit by subs. It's good to see the AI fighting each other, I don't want another UN loss.
We need to get flight soon so we can easily tranfer units around and finally get at them. Once we have tanks with more arty, we should be able to get at them properly.
are we going after entremont next?

by the way, can't we steal the world map so that we finally know where the Celt oil is?
 
ThERat said:
by the way, can't we steal the world map so that we finally know where the Celt oil is?

An excellent idea. This option is so rarely important that I tend not to consider it.

Entremont is a tough call. As the capital, it may contain too many units for our strike force to deal with even when luring has succeeded and it's down to its minimum garrison. Theoretically our cav armies can make twenty attacks a turn, but against a TOW/flak mix such as we saw in Eboracum the realistic maximum is more like ten. We shouldn't be reluctant to spend the money to look into Entremont, so we can make an informed decision.
 
Greebley said:
Why didn't we fortify the Frigates? They have an extra movement and can fortify so they ARE attacked first. Our galleons shouldn't be in any danger if we do that. Or am I missing something here?

Submarines can choose their target from a stack, and they choose galleons (even if empty) over frigates. Three of the four galleons lost in my round were sunk this way. How a battleship attacked a frigate/galleon pair and took out the galleon I find harder to understand--as best I recall, only the frigate was fortified--but that happened too.
 
Sorry for butting in, but I was wondering about the idea that the calv armies are good for 20 attacks or maybe 10? I see 5 of them in the one mobile stack and 2 fronting the one town. So I am guessing you are looking at 3x7 and calling it 20. Then dropping it to 10 if ToW's?

I would not want to count on getting more than 1 attack Vs a Tow in a metro. You only have 13 arties in that stack, so many of the defenders will be at full strength, if they have as few as 8 defenders. Depending on the rolls go, unless you expect to find fewer units than 8 in a given city. The towns are probably going to have fewer, but the capitol will have at least 20.

Rifles, I can see getting 2 attacks, sometimes, so am I missing something? Again sorry to butt in, just hoping to learn something new.
 
No problem--I'm glad to answer. I'm only counting the five cav armies in the mobile stack. In Conquests units in armies get an extra movement point and can use all their movement points to attack, so that's twenty attacks right there--theoretically. I'm then cutting that to ten on the assumption that we'd be attacking a roughly even mix of TOW and flak units, such as we saw in Eboracum. You're right that this stack couldn't expect to attack ten TOW with success.
 
Thanks, I understand the extra move, but I forgot its 4 attacks for calvs, was thinking of knights with only 3. Not sure why I lost my mind on that point. I guess I was thinking, wow how can I attack even twice against those units, unless they are all down to one hitpoit. Three HP Tows scare my calvs in metros. :D

Since you you were kind enough to clear my head on that one, let me see if I can get an understanding of the 780 shields issue. I did not follow that 480 make up part at all.

That is a significant issue in that spot and I was lost. I was thinking that at 240 shields, a 20 (net) shield city needs 12 turns to make a factory, So it gains 10 shield after it is done and hence need 24 turns to break even. The only think I see has a "make up" is that you could have build 3 units for those shields.

Those units would have cost maint which is an offset, but to me if you can get by without those extra units, you are soon (24 turns) going to be start be better off the factories. If you needed those units to avoid a lost of a city, that is another issue altogether. Not sure how to factor that in before the fact.

So what am I missing this time, probably another Doh moment.
 
You're really saying the same thing as Bed Head did in his analysis of the break-even point; you're just expressing it differently. In your example, the BEP is reached 36 turns after the factory is begun, or 24 turns after it's completed. Approaching it Bed Head's way, 720 shields divided by 20 spt = 36 turns to the BEP--the same as your answer.

This analysis understates the real value of factories, though, because it leaves out the fact that a factory is the gateway to a further and cheaper 50% increase in base production, whether through a coal plant or Hoover.
 
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