Graphical Quibbles...

[WarKirby]

Thanks, that's the bit I'm really happy about!

You are aware there's a button to enable or disable the map grid, yes?

I hope you didn't put gridlines into the actual terrain textures. That would be a horrible idea.

Well, the old fungicide colour was made to stand out, I think it would be way too intense for bigger areas.

I think it wouldn't. Looks neat to me. The monsoon jungle needs a more turqoise-ish color anyhow, the current green jungle looks too terran and doesn't fit.

Yeah, I was going for the old SMAC standard look, brightness-wise. Plus, nowadays I'm on an LCD screen, these are brighter than the old monitors... including the ones, I played SMAC on, this may look even darker on non-LCDs. On the other hand, I thought I might get away with it, as FfH also has pretty dark terrain compared to the standard terrain!

I'd agree with maniac that it seems a bit dark, too.


Would be nice if you posted a couple of images comparing the same scene side by side, with the old and new textures.

 

[Lord Tirian]

I hope you didn't put gridlines into the actual terrain textures. That would be a horrible idea.

- you're kidding me, right? Who would do something that horrible!?

Just thought that the grid, despite being more of an utility than a "pretty", deserves some love too! All terrain graphics, AFAIK, just slap the grid on their textures like it's for people who don't like pretty graphics.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Some more (negative ) feedback.

I agree that with the current graphics rocky rainy and rocky moist can sometimes be hard to distinguish. However:
1) I do like how that terrain looks very much, with both the grey and brown rocks.
2) You removed the brown rocks. Now I'm finding it hard to distinguish between the flat and rocky versions of the same raininess levels.
So I don't know, considering this, perhaps some (not all) of the brown rocks of rocky rainy terrain could be removed, so that the green shows more (thus making it better distinguishable from moist), yet at the same time keeping it distinguishable from flat rainy

The hill texture contrasts enough with rainy terrain, but now I'm finding it harder to spot hills at a glance on arid and to a lesser degree moist terrain.

I'll include the polar textures in the next patch.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Okay, I took the feedback into account and tried to tone down the changes and go more for subtle changes and some colour-corrections - see the attached screenshots for the current state (this time, it's a before-after with the normal Planetfall terrain). How does it look now?

EDIT: Just for fun - I attached another screenshot showing how it looks with original SMAC textures, just put into the Civ4 format and tiled without further editing etc.!

Cheers, LT.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

Except for the jungle, your changes are too subtle for me. But maybe I'm crazy cuz I like the last one the best.

 

[WarKirby]

the new jungle looks different and certainly better, but not really right. The original monsoon jungle was a very dark green, looked like forest really. This seems more orange tinted

 

[WarKirby]

I still think you should try using the fungicide graphic for jungle, even jsut to show us how it would look.,

 

[GeoModder]

Lord Tirian, did do anything with the river textures?
On my screen, the riverbanks look quite pixelized as the Planetfall terrain is on the moment.

 

[Lord Tirian]

the new jungle looks different and certainly better, but not really right. The original monsoon jungle was a very dark green, looked like forest really. This seems more orange tinted

I still think you should try using the fungicide graphic for jungle, even jsut to show us how it would look.,

Will do so - by the way, what do you think is a better inspiration for a colour palette - the actual in-game graphics or the various artworks? My terrain tweaks are tending a lot towards the colours from the various loading screens, where the green is rather a more yellowish green, whereas the in-game greens are rather dark, deep greens and the entire land seems to be more reddish-muddy.

Lord Tirian, did do anything with the river textures?
On my screen, the riverbanks look quite pixelized as the Planetfall terrain is on the moment.

That's actually something I want to work on, but I want to get the terrain right first (even if I end up keeping a lot like it is, I just think experimenting is worth it, even if you just confirm the status quo is perfect ). Then I wanted to go through the rest to match it (for example I intend to make new graphics for the resources, like grenade fruits, fungal gin etc.).

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Okay, I took the feedback into account and tried to tone down the changes and go more for subtle changes and some colour-corrections - see the attached screenshots for the current state (this time, it's a before-after with the normal Planetfall terrain). How does it look now?

Personally I don't see the need to change the brightness of arid and moist at all. I prefer your Rainy terrain, but Rocky looks too similar to Flat IMO, so as a consequence neither texture can be used.

By the way, the current Peak texture still shows in the middle of a plateau of 'ridges'. Would you know how to change that texture so that the middle of a 3x3 plot group doesn't show the peak texture overlay, similar to how the highland texture works?

 

[Lord Tirian]

I still think you should try using the fungicide graphic for jungle, even jsut to show us how it would look.,

My problem with it was the bluish tint... I attached a screenshot (no. 1) with a reduced tint, more like a deep green, I'll do another test with the fungicide texture a little bit later.

Personally I don't see the need to change the brightness of arid and moist at all. I prefer your Rainy terrain, but Rocky looks too similar to Flat IMO, so as a consequence neither texture can be used.

Actually, the main change was increasing the saturation of the colours a bit, making them less grey-ish - I did that because I did the same for the rainy terrain, I wanted it to match in colour intensity - it just looked a bit odd to me without that correction. And I have to say, I think that rocky rainy and flat rainy do look distinct enough to be distinguished - see the second screenshot, I'll however try to make the rocks a bit more visible - I just don't want to introduce a lot of brown to the rocky rainy terrain, because that makes it too similar to the rocky moist terrain again.

By the way, the current Peak texture still shows in the middle of a plateau of 'ridges'. Would you know how to change that texture so that the middle of a 3x3 plot group doesn't show the peak texture overlay, similar to how the highland texture works?

Look at the third screenshot - would that go into the right direction? It's rough edit now, I'd need to make the lines more natural, less straight, of course.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Lord Tirian]

As comparison, the jungle with the fungicide-coloured trees. Also on the screenshot, my experiments with the peak blending to get better plateaus (the colour is just a test, the tiling is important) - I have to hunt down some stray bits, but I think it will work.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Actually, the main change was increasing the saturation of the colours a bit, making them less grey-ish - I did that because I did the same for the rainy terrain, I wanted it to match in colour intensity - it just looked a bit odd to me without that correction.

Cool. Let's go with these textures.

And I have to say, I think that rocky rainy and flat rainy do look distinct enough to be distinguished - see the second screenshot, I'll however try to make the rocks a bit more visible - I just don't want to introduce a lot of brown to the rocky rainy terrain, because that makes it too similar to the rocky moist terrain again.

Thanks!

Also on the screenshot, my experiments with the peak blending to get better plateaus (the colour is just a test, the tiling is important) - I have to hunt down some stray bits, but I think it will work.

Looks great re blending. For the record, besides the colour, what I liked about the old Peak texture was the fact that it had some transparency on the sides and not only the top, showing off the underlying terrain.

 

[WarKirby]

As comparison, the jungle with the fungicide-coloured trees. Also on the screenshot, my experiments with the peak blending to get better plateaus (the colour is just a test, the tiling is important) - I have to hunt down some stray bits, but I think it will work.

Cheers, LT.

I love the lighter sides of ridges there. Makes it a lot easier to tell ridges apart from highlands, which is good. But It's still hard to tell highlands apart from flat. Anything you dould do to make them more distinct, like increasing the elevation differences in highlands?

re: Jungle, I'm kind of divided. But I think I like the bluish one more. It just looks kind of right, next to the pink fungus. The green one is nice, and closer to the original monsoon jungle, but it just kind of seems too terran alongside the fungus.

The dark jungle, kind of looks like earth being invaded by fungus, but I think the bluish one is more of a true alien look.

I'd be happy with either though, both are a massive improvement over the current jungle.

Also, please rename it "Monsoon Jungle". It'll annoy me forever otherwise

 

[WarKirby]

Are there any buildings needing (non-animated) art? I'm in the mood to do something static where I don't have to fuss around with rigging

 

[Maniac]

But It's still hard to tell highlands apart from flat.

Have you always felt this way, or only with Lord Tirian's highland texture?

Anything you dould do to make them more distinct, like increasing the elevation differences in highlands?

If by elevation differences you mean the heightmaps, the heightmaps of highlands have been intentionally flattened to emphasize the idea that highlands can be plateaus rather than hilly terrain with significant height differences on a small area.

Are there any buildings needing (non-animated) art? I'm in the mood to do something static where I don't have to fuss around with rigging

There's a graphics task list here. There's some buildings mentioned in the "fix or redo older models" section. Base facility art is pretty much all done though. What's really still lacking is cityset art for the Believers and for future use the SMAX factions.

 

[Lord Tirian]

The dark jungle, kind of looks like earth being invaded by fungus, but I think the bluish one is more of a true alien look.

By the way, the turquoise jungle starts to grow on me. If I'd go for a darker one, I'd go for the bluish one, perhaps with some extra tweaks. But then, I still sort of like the one with the yellow-tinted green from the initial ideas I had for the terrain.

If by elevation differences you mean the heightmaps, the heightmaps of highlands have been intentionally flattened to emphasize the idea that highlands can be plateaus rather than hilly terrain with significant height differences on a small area.

It's also possible to raise the entire height of them a bit (for the ridges as well), keeping their structure, just moving them to a higher level - drawback: the slopes will suffer a little bit more distortions.

In any case, attached a screenshot to show how it looks right now, main things I want opinions on: The rocky rainy terrain next to the flat rainy terrain - I made the rocks more prominent, better now? Furthermore, feedback on the ridges?

By the way, personally, I would've liked ridge slopes to be greyish and highlands to be brownish (because I associate ridges a bit with high mountains as well, a bit like on the university diplomacy landscape, whereas highlands are only exposing less granite, more dirt and stuff, like shores) - but I have to say the current set-up works better visibility-wise.

Cheers, LT.

 

[WarKirby]

what happened to the white-cliffed ridges? they seem to be gone in that picture. I was loving those.

 

[WarKirby]

Have you always felt this way, or only with Lord Tirian's highland texture?

Always. This has always seemed like a problem. What I really should have said is that this doesn't do anything to help that problem, though doesn't appear to make it worse either.

Highlands just look... too flat. Increasing their overall elevation could help a little, but all it would really accomplish is making them flat at a higher altitude. I think what the really need is more variance. Higher highs, and lower lows. Also possibly, a little bit of roughness in the texture to distinguish them from smooth looking flatlands.

 

[Maniac]

It's also possible to raise the entire height of them a bit (for the ridges as well), keeping their structure, just moving them to a higher level - drawback: the slopes will suffer a little bit more distortions.

I would advise against raising terrain height, especially for Ridges. Problem is that to select a unit you don't need to click on the unit graphic as shown, but on where the unit graphic would be if it was placed at zero height. This can lead to situations where you need to click on the plot to the south of the plot the unit is actually standing on. The higher you make terrain, the more likely this becomes a problem.

In any case, attached a screenshot to show how it looks right now, main things I want opinions on: The rocky rainy terrain next to the flat rainy terrain - I made the rocks more prominent, better now? Furthermore, feedback on the ridges?

Looks great to me. Would love to have the files. One small question: where do these spots come from? (see attachment)

Highlands just look... too flat. Increasing their overall elevation could help a little, but all it would really accomplish is making them flat at a higher altitude. I think what the really need is more variance. Higher highs, and lower lows. Also possibly, a little bit of roughness in the texture to distinguish them from smooth looking flatlands.

Problem is that would make them look like Rocky Hills rather than Highlands.