Graphical Quibbles...

[Lord Tirian]

Sorry, I kept on forgetting to fix this.

Hey, as you're around right now: I've sort of found out why the sea bases don't have any art: The BuildingLSystem part that keeps land cities from ending up in water also keeps buildings of sea bases out of water (best illustrated if you set a sea base in the world builder on a coast tile). I also found out that one can override that for individual buildings completely (with the tag to ignore water and ignore the contour) - but I didn't get any further.

Since you're more familiar with the LSystem in general (seeing you doing all the ethnic city art, which is great! ) - do you have any idea how to go from there to finally get sea bases with buildings?

Cheers, LT.

 

[GeoModder]

Hey, as you're around right now: I've sort of found out why the sea bases don't have any art: The BuildingLSystem part that keeps land cities from ending up in water also keeps buildings of sea bases out of water (best illustrated if you set a sea base in the world builder on a coast tile). I also found out that one can override that for individual buildings completely (with the tag to ignore water and ignore the contour) - but I didn't get any further.

Since you're more familiar with the LSystem in general (seeing you doing all the ethnic city art, which is great! ) - do you have any idea how to go from there to finally get sea bases with buildings?

Cheers, LT.

If you could show me the xml code which causes that I could try to figure out a way from there. The furthest I found out about visible seabases was how to put city facilities (network nodes, rec commons, biolabs,...) on seaplots, and my first idea several months ago was to create separate art with some cityset buildings/faction around it and have separate xml tags for land facilities and sea facilities. But Maniac didn't want to go this way (can't blame him, it would double the xml and probably .dll work).
So just link me to an xml example of how you found this out so I'm sure we're talking about the same thing, and I'll try to work from there once my vacation starts (a guy needs to do something on those long boring evenings in a foreign country... ).

 

[Maniac]

So, I whipped up a landmark that's not in Planetfall yet - the Garland Crater! It was a small and easy, but also fun model to make - so I just drop it here, hoping somebody will find an use for it.

Awesome! I'll definitely include it. I haven't put it in the 319 compatibility patch yet though, as I need to think a while about what effects the landmark could give - I'd prefer something in addition to the obvious mineral bonus.

My current thought is it could provide an Iridium bonus even before you have the Antimatter technology. Revealing and enabling the Iridium resource there right from game start would require a minor SDK modification though.

That Garland Crater screenshot will also be awesome for marketing.

do you have any idea how to go from there to finally get sea bases with buildings?

Each sea base starts with a Pressure Dome, so one idea I had was to make the Pressure Dome graphic appear on water.

 

[GeoModder]

Each sea base starts with a Pressure Dome, so one idea I had was to make the Pressure Dome graphic appear on water.

That's easy enough.

 

[Lord Tirian]

...I'm sure we're talking about the same thing, and I'll try to work from there once my vacation starts.

Uh, I think we're talking about the same thing - the problem is: The behaviour seems to be implicit, i.e. everything follows it. The "<Attribute Class="Scalar">bNoContour:1</Attribute>" in combination with the "<Attribute Class="Scalar">bNoWaterTest:1</Attribute>" tag seems to place buildings straight on water. From the tags, I figured that the bNoWaterTest avoids checking for water, whereas the bNoContour disables the checking for the terrain contours, i.e. following coastlines, hills and so forth.

But that's as far as I got, I couldn't follow that trail into the DLL so far. On the other hand, I got an idea for a possible "workaround". Once could copy-&-paste several buildings from a city set nif together into a small city (as single nif) and use it as a graphic for an unique building that only and always appears in water bases. Then there would be at least some approximation of a city. This "compiled" nif could then also include some platform or things like that to make it look more in place.

Cheers, LT.

 

[GeoModder]

Uh, I think we're talking about the same thing - the problem is: The behaviour seems to be implicit, i.e. everything follows it. The "<Attribute Class="Scalar">bNoContour:1</Attribute>" in combination with the "<Attribute Class="Scalar">bNoWaterTest:1</Attribute>" tag seems to place buildings straight on water. From the tags, I figured that the bNoWaterTest avoids checking for water, whereas the bNoContour disables the checking for the terrain contours, i.e. following coastlines, hills and so forth.

Okay, I followed your explanation then.

But that's as far as I got, I couldn't follow that trail into the DLL so far. On the other hand, I got an idea for a possible "workaround". Once could copy-&-paste several buildings from a city set nif together into a small city (as single nif) and use it as a graphic for an unique building that only and always appears in water bases. Then there would be at least some approximation of a city. This "compiled" nif could then also include some platform or things like that to make it look more in place.

Yeah, I had the same idea.

 

[Maniac]

Me three.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Okay, generally, I'm busy with experimenting with unit art and stuff - but in the main thread, there was a mix-up of special abilities and promotions (here). I think his idea of distinguishing them by different icons isn't a bad one, so I tried to whip up an alternative icon - as most special abilities are technical (and also in SMAC), I tried to make it look a bit technical, hence the cool metallic colours. So, I attached two quick attempts on Silksteel and Plasma Shard - what do you think?

Suggested tweaks?

Cheers, LT.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Okay, generally, I'm busy with experimenting with unit art and stuff - but in the main thread, there was a mix-up of special abilities and promotions (here). I think his idea of distinguishing them by different icons isn't a bad one, so I tried to whip up an alternative icon - as most special abilities are technical (and also in SMAC), I tried to make it look a bit technical, hence the cool metallic colours. So, I attached two quick attempts on Silksteel and Plasma Shard - what do you think?

Suggested tweaks?

Cheers, LT.

I like the idea of different colours for promotions and special abilities and I also think the metal colour tone fits nicely

 

[Keeper_GFA]

Okay, generally, I'm busy with experimenting with unit art and stuff - but in the main thread, there was a mix-up of special abilities and promotions (here). I think his idea of distinguishing them by different icons isn't a bad one, so I tried to whip up an alternative icon - as most special abilities are technical (and also in SMAC), I tried to make it look a bit technical, hence the cool metallic colours. So, I attached two quick attempts on Silksteel and Plasma Shard - what do you think?

Suggested tweaks?

Cheers, LT.

The only other problem with ability and promotion icons is that a couple aren't unique yet. I can't recall which off the top of my head, and hopefully separating the ability and promo icon colors like this will help that problem too.

 

[Maniac]

I'm not 100% sure yet, but I intend to simplify the promotion line to a mere Combat I to VI (or Disciplined to Elite). So it would be much less work to give the few Combat promotions a different background than all the special abilities.

Where did you get the icon for Plasma Shard btw? I'd love to have the source file for that.

 

[GeoModder]

I'm not 100% sure yet, but I intend to simplify the promotion line to a mere Combat I to VI (or Disciplined to Elite). So it would be much less work to give the few Combat promotions a different background than all the special abilities.

As it is now, the 'elite' button is also used for the two next promotions in that line (Legendary and Alpha).

 

[Lord Tirian]

I'm not 100% sure yet, but I intend to simplify the promotion line to a mere Combat I to VI (or Disciplined to Elite). So it would be much less work to give the few Combat promotions a different background than all the special abilities.

So... you think of changing the promotion background instead of the special ability background? I think that might cause confusion, because the gold-on-blue promotions are just so familiar from vanilla civ. Even FfH2 sticks to that colouring scheme - for the same reason, I guess.

Of course, one could also go along the FfH2 route and give (similar to the spells) each special ability an actual picture instead of a symbol, but I don't think that's fitting with the symbol-driven SMAC-theme.

Where did you get the icon for Plasma Shard btw? I'd love to have the source file for that.

It's part of this psd-file.

By the way, a minor quibble (since this is a quibble-thread, after all): Unique features (on the map) in FfH2 have that nice big label (just the standard Civ4 label for the map), so you can see their name without hovering over the actual feature - would it be possible to get the same labelling for the unique features in Planetfall?

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Of course, one could also go along the FfH2 route and give (similar to the spells) each special ability an actual picture instead of a symbol, but I don't think that's fitting with the symbol-driven SMAC-theme.

I have nothing against using pictures, but I wouldn't have an idea what picture to use for most special abilities - it may be hard to find a fitting picture for everything. And if you use that theme for one spec ab, one should use it for all spec abs to stay consistent.

It's part of this psd-file.

Crap. I don't have Photoshop.

So... you think of changing the promotion background instead of the special ability background? I think that might cause confusion, because the gold-on-blue promotions are just so familiar from vanilla civ. Even FfH2 sticks to that colouring scheme - for the same reason, I guess.

Some considerations:

If I were to simplify promotions for non-psi units to a simple Combat I to VI, I could also give units the latest promotion automatically upon reaching the required XP. Then no confusion would be possible, and the colour of the promotions wouldn't really matter anyway.

A bigger more 'project management'-orientated reason to choose the implementation which requires the least change: so far no one except GeoModder has contributed to Planetfall for longer than six months or so. While I of course hope you will stick around for a much longer time I should not rely on that hope. If I need another special ability button in seven months, I should be able to make one myself. So unless you could write a guide similar to the tech/fac button creation guide, one which works for a freely available program like GIMP, it is best not to start using another style for special ability buttons.

By the way, a minor quibble (since this is a quibble-thread, after all): Unique features (on the map) in FfH2 have that nice big label (just the standard Civ4 label for the map), so you can see their name without hovering over the actual feature - would it be possible to get the same labelling for the unique features in Planetfall?

I've put it on the to-do list, but I probably won't get to it for a long time.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Crap. I don't have Photoshop.

I pulled it out the file and attached it as a PNG file - that keeps the transparency and makes re-use easy-peasy, I hope.

Then no confusion would be possible, and the colour of the promotions wouldn't really matter anyway.

Ah, I see. Though I have to say I'd miss the ability to further customise units through promotions, especially after the last promo of the line is received - but let's keep this thread about the graphics.

So unless you could write a guide similar to the tech/fac button creation guide, one which works for a freely available program like GIMP, it is best not to start using another style for special ability buttons.

Hmmm... I could produce a photoshop template that could be used pretty easily, but I'm not experienced with GIMP. However, the template for this particular style is *very* similar to the standard promotion button - if you can create Civ4-style promotion buttons, I could supply you with the background and give you the colour values for the raised part - that should result in near identical buttons.

I've put it on the to-do list, but I probably won't get to it for a long time.

Okay, nice to hear... do you take bribes?

If so, here is one (joking, labels are very minor, focus on important issues): I adapted Deliverator's spice resource (with his permission, of course) and created a trench feature.

It has some issues - the edge looks harder than the old trench, but I cannot change that without getting a lot of flickering between the tiles. It can sometimes look a bit cut-off close to land, but I cannot change that without moving it closer to the surface, in which case submarines/carriers completely vanish below the texture if they fortify.

Apart from that, it looks very similar to the current trenches, though a little bit darker. If you use it on a transition between shelf and ocean, put it on the ocean tile, not on the shelf tile, it usually looks better that way.

Included the XML-code and a button as well.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

I pulled it out the file and attached it as a PNG file - that keeps the transparency and makes re-use easy-peasy, I hope.

Thanks!

Ah, I see. Though I have to say I'd miss the ability to further customise units through promotions, especially after the last promo of the line is received

The problem is more or less I don't have enough cool ideas to make both an interesting list of promotions AND special abilities for each unit. But as said, I'm not sure yet what to do. One possibility is to let special abilities enable certain promotions. Eg Barrage I would be a special ability. Barrage II & III would be promotions, further increasing the effect of the special ability.

Hmmm... I could produce a photoshop template that could be used pretty easily, but I'm not experienced with GIMP. However, the template for this particular style is *very* similar to the standard promotion button - if you can create Civ4-style promotion buttons, I could supply you with the background and give you the colour values for the raised part - that should result in near identical buttons.

Thanks - I could give it a try.

I adapted Deliverator's spice resource (with his permission, of course) and created a trench feature.

Apart from that, it looks very similar to the current trenches, though a little bit darker. If you use it on a transition between shelf and ocean, put it on the ocean tile, not on the shelf tile, it usually looks better that way.

Ah, I'm afraid the trench feature is meant to be used on Coast terrain. I'll see how it looks.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Thanks - I could give it a try.

Okay, I've attached the background I've used (in PNG, because it's lossless). The RGB value for the colour of the raised part is 150 (red) 173 (green) 214 (blue). Apart from that, it's basically the same as the Vanilla promotion button the light/dark part are layer effects in PS, but I guess GIMP has something similar, producing the bevelled look in a similar fashion.

Ah, I'm afraid the trench feature is meant to be used on Coast terrain. I'll see how it looks.

If it doesn't work out, give me a response (preferably with screenshots and arrows), I may still be able to fiddle around with it, depending on what exactly you need.

And oh, I was looking through the request list - about the Psi Gate building: I can add a glow to that... but I always imagined a Gate to be, well ,more gate-shaped - more like a ground-based version of the bulk matter transmitter. Not like the "ascent to transcendence" building... so, do you just want a glow added, otherwise I would like to try my hand at an actual gate.

Cheers, LT.

 

[GeoModder]

And oh, I was looking through the request list - about the Psi Gate building: I can add a glow to that... but I always imagined a Gate to be, well ,more gate-shaped - more like a ground-based version of the bulk matter transmitter. Not like the "ascent to transcendence" building... so, do you just want a glow added, otherwise I would like to try my hand at an actual gate.

I'd say go ahead with it. After all, both the Dimensional Gate and the Psi Gate use the same graphic now. It won't hurt to have an extra graphic so both look different.

 

[Maniac]

I think a Gate would work for the Dimensional Gate, but for the Psi Gate it would look too technical. The Psi Gate is using Psi after all, not some advanced physics.

For the record, in the past we have stumbled upon some building which, with some modifications, would work perfectly for a Dimensional Gate. It was from EE2 IIRC. Unfortunately I can't find it back. GeoModder, do you still have it or know where to find it somewhere?

Edit: It's the gate of the Herc Factory in this post:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7462057&postcount=45

 

[The_J]

What about the barracks here?
The look like a gate, and not technical.
Again, maybe not the most fitting, but also not bad imho.