Graphical Quibbles...

[Maniac]

Thanks for the models Lord Tirian!

Any thoughts about that, Maniac? It would free this HothGenerator model for a secret project or a late-tech facility like the singularity inductor or somesuch which can't be expected to be build a lot that late in the game.

I'd rather first ask Lord Tirian if he would be interested in revising the Energy Bank/Hoth Generator some time.

 

[Lord Tirian]

I'd rather first ask Lord Tirian if he would be interested in revising the Energy Bank/Hoth Generator some time.

It's going to be the next thing I'm working on (the other thing that I'm working on is a new Network Node). I'll run with the basic shape from the Hoth Generator, but I think it will need a bit of work to get the polycount down and perhaps there are other things I'll tweak.

Today, I tried the barrel idea - but doesn't look good, it keeps looking like some generic industry tank/silo/whatever - it only works for the nexus because the monolith with the clear classic shapes is a nice contrast and changes the overall feel away from "tank" (and that's the reason why I kept the idea of using the monolith instead of some sci-fi building - for Planetfall, a mix of "tech" with strong clean cut shapes seems to be a good overall look and feel - at least for the human buildings, that's a theme I want to use repeatedly).

@GeoModder: Little question: Planetfall has a waterworked graphic that is also used (occasionally) as a landworked graphic - is it possible to implement different graphics and make the landworked graphic appear on all worked tiles? As far as I know, it should be possible, as vanilla Civ has the different boats and I think - but I'm not sure - also has a landworked graphic that appears, in case there isn't a specifically animated improvement (like the mines etc.). Furthermore, how much can you control that landworked graphic to avoid it clipping into improvements - i.e. can you make a model appear close to the edge of a plot or would one need to make the nif in a fashion to include that offset? I just had a neat little idea what could be a general landworked (and waterworked) model for Planetfall.

Cheers, LT.

 

[GeoModder]

@GeoModder: Little question: Planetfall has a waterworked graphic that is also used (occasionally) as a landworked graphic - is it possible to implement different graphics and make the landworked graphic appear on all worked tiles? As far as I know, it should be possible, as vanilla Civ has the different boats and I think - but I'm not sure - also has a landworked graphic that appears, in case there isn't a specifically animated improvement (like the mines etc.). Furthermore, how much can you control that landworked graphic to avoid it clipping into improvements - i.e. can you make a model appear close to the edge of a plot or would one need to make the nif in a fashion to include that offset? I just had a neat little idea what could be a general landworked (and waterworked) model for Planetfall.

Cheers, LT.

IIRC the Planetfall waterworked graphic showing sometimes on land is a graphic glitch, but I'll check to be sure.
Now on your main question: it is possible to let the landworked graphic appear on both improved and non-improved plots. In the case of improved plots, in most cases you'd need to add the landworked graphic to the nif itself (which means it will show whether the plot has a citizen on it or not), in other cases (farms and cottages in civ4 terms) you can add it through the xml. But it will also show whether or not the plot is worked by a citizen.
When you add it in the nif to the improvement model, you can give it a fixed spot on the improved plot. Just needs a little tinkering with the xy coordinates in NifSkope. But I suppose you already knew that. When you add it in xml, it appears on a random spot on the improved plot. I think that's because the graphic engine gives it a location then. Clipping depends on the size of the object(s). In my experience you're better of with 1x1 and 1x2 profiled models, and don't scale them larger then 0.5 if the model was made on a normal size in whatever model building program you use.

I never tried it, but wonder if improvements like mines could alse be put in a xml system like cottages. Or have extra art in them like the farms do. The latter should be possible I think. That's basically a standard model with extra art attached to it.

EDIT: or did you mean that the landworked graphic should show ONLY when a plot is worked by a citizen, whether or not there's an improvement on it? I think that sort of thing is covered with the animation files.

 

[Lord Tirian]

EDIT: or did you mean that the landworked graphic should show ONLY when a plot is worked by a citizen, whether or not there's an improvement on it? I think that sort of thing is covered with the animation files.

Yeah, meant this - should've been clearer. I just hoped you might know a way without reworking all animations - which is quite cumbersome.

Personally, I like seeing at a glance whether a tile is worked or not - and I had an idea for a pretty universal graphic for that (on land): a tiny 1x1-node sized supply crawler! Would be a nice homage to them and their ability to crawl plots (which was horrible micromanagement!).

Anyway, finished stuff for Planetfall as well:

• A new, slimmer network node, which design I really like!
• A reworked, slimmed down energy bank - captures the old look, added a more interesting texture... and it's only 490 polys heavy. Came out a bit more industrial-looking than I intended - but I liked the orange bits on it too much, because it fits the orange energy icon... fits neatly into a 4x2-node if you use a fScale = 3.0, fInterfaceScale = 0.5; file is attached.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Thanks for the models! Haven't looked at the Energy Bank yet, but the Network Node looks awesome!

One question about the scale though: is that as tested in Planetfall, and are those the values put in the ArtDefines?

The reason I ask: in the CityLSystem the Network Node is currently defined as 1.5. So I wonder if that was why you said the scale should be 1.5, or if I should also put 1.5 in the Artdefines, meaning the actual intended scale for the model is 1.5*1.5 = 2.25.

Same with Energy Bank. That one has a 0.5 scale in the CityLSystem.

 

[Lord Tirian]

One question about the scale though: is that as tested in Planetfall, and are those the values put in the ArtDefines?

Oh, I never test things with the CityLSystem, I always quickly add them as generic buildings (because if I like a model enough and it's entirely by me, I'd like to release it in the main forums - generic scales are more useful then). My scales are always assuming that you put them directly into the ArtDefines-file without further modification afterwards (i.e. assuming a scale of 1.0 in the CityLSystem) - so yeah, you have to adjust them a bit - I suggest modifying the entry in the CityLSystem, because the Datalinks model scale (fInterfaceScale) is also applied after fScale - meaning you would need to modify that one as well, if you change the fScale).

Cheers, LT.

 

[GeoModder]

Thanks for the models! Haven't looked at the Energy Bank yet, but the Network Node looks awesome!

One question about the scale though: is that as tested in Planetfall, and are those the values put in the ArtDefines?

The reason I ask: in the CityLSystem the Network Node is currently defined as 1.5. So I wonder if that was why you said the scale should be 1.5, or if I should also put 1.5 in the Artdefines, meaning the actual intended scale for the model is 1.5*1.5 = 2.25.

Same with Energy Bank. That one has a 0.5 scale in the CityLSystem.

There's a reason I put scale 1.0 in Civ4ArtDefines on buildingclasses which will be used by multiple factions and multiple graphics, meaning that I need to make entries in Civ4CityLSystem too several times.
For starters, Datalinks shows the model linked in Civ4ArtDefines, and the interfacescale is easier to have a grip on if a standard scale is used.
Also, in Civ4CityLSystem the scale of the other graphics from the same buildingclass are directly derived from the value in Civ4ArtDefines. Again, easier to have a feel on how much a graphic's size has to be increased or decreased according to the base value.

Love the new graphics, LT.

 

[GeoModder]

Personally, I like seeing at a glance whether a tile is worked or not - and I had an idea for a pretty universal graphic for that (on land): a tiny 1x1-node sized supply crawler! Would be a nice homage to them and their ability to crawl plots (which was horrible micromanagement!).

Now that I think of it, in Planetfall when a landunit moves over territorial waters the game depicts a transport foil unit underneath the landunit.
Maniac, is this something you coded/xml'd or is it an automatic side-effect of land units moving over waterplots?
If the former, perhaps it can be coded that this supply crawler shows up when a plot is worked?

 

[Maniac]

I recycled the siege tower animation for that.
What Lord Tirian wants, is only possible by changing improvement animations.

 

[GeoModder]

I recycled the siege tower animation for that.

How'd you manage to let it change from being added to an attacking land unit to a unit walking over sea? If you've done it in xml, in what file(s)?

Just asking because I wanted to let a landingcraft graphic accompany a marine unit when it attacks from the sea in another mod.

 

[Maniac]

Alas, it requires SDK. Should be easy though. But I guess you don't want a modified DLL?

Also, then the siege tower animation won't show anymore. That siege tower animation is kinda a unique thing. I can change when the existing one shows up, but I can't add new animations myself.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Ah, new patch - and happy to see the naval improvements!

But here I go... there's some graphics quibbling: Why don't you use the awesome Sea Archer as carrier model? Instead of the Final Frontier model... a futuristic carrier would fit better than a spaceship, IMHO.

Furthermore: Had you any luck using the background I supplied earlier to create special ability-promo buttons? Because they could still need a bit of an overhaul (as there are a couple of duplicate special ability/promo buttons) - and once you're able to do the style for yourself I could start working on them.

Cheers, LT.

 

[GeoModder]

Alas, it requires SDK. Should be easy though. But I guess you don't want a modified DLL?

Also, then the siege tower animation won't show anymore. That siege tower animation is kinda a unique thing. I can change when the existing one shows up, but I can't add new animations myself.

Mmm... there is an xml file (CIV4FormationInfos) where the attached position of the great general and the siege tower on a unit formation is written down. Would adding a position there be of help?
Since the siege engine isn't used anymore after the melee era's, would it be possible to link it to the siege tower in the first era's, but to the marine unit in the later era's?
On the modified .dll thing, I have a BtS 3.19 version which allows the use of another unit graphic in every era of the vanilla game (7 era's thus). I plan to work with that one once the building graphics part of my mod is done. If that siege animation can be split over 2 graphics in different era's of the game, would you be willing to compile the code in that .dll?

 

[Maniac]

But here I go... there's some graphics quibbling: Why don't you use the awesome Sea Archer as carrier model? Instead of the Final Frontier model... a futuristic carrier would fit better than a spaceship, IMHO.

Because the Sea Archer doesn't look futuristic to me. I don't know anything about carriers, but it looks like a contemporary one.

The justification why carriers aren't available as soon as factions have built up their industry (at Industrial Automation or Doctrine; Initiative for instance), is that advances in submarine warfare have turned large aircraft carriers into sitting ducks. As people think is already the case today should a big power war ever break out.

The reason why Carriers become feasible again with Mass Drivers, is that with that technology aircraft can be succesfully launched while needing a much smaller launching lane/tube/deck/whatever. So smaller carrier ships can be used which could more easily avoid submarines.

The EE2 submarine graphic currently used for submarine carriers, I can imagine to use mass drivers to launch craft. It has those groves/tubes in the model.

The Sea Archer just has an ordinary flight deck. Seems like a huge ship that doesn't use mass drivers.

The Final Frontier has this hangar in the back. I guess one could imagine there's a mass driver there which can launch aircraft.

I know the model is far from perfect. I was thinking perhaps it could pass if its lowered on the Z-axis, so it actually is in the water instead of floating just above it?

Furthermore: Had you any luck using the background I supplied earlier to create special ability-promo buttons? Because they could still need a bit of an overhaul (as there are a couple of duplicate special ability/promo buttons) - and once you're able to do the style for yourself I could start working on them.

Err, I haven't tried.
But I guess it shouldn't be that hard. From the looks of it, you don't use any lighting effects or something like the marble texture, as described in the button guide?
So go ahead as you see fit I'd say.

 

[Maniac]

Mmm... there is an xml file (CIV4FormationInfos) where the attached position of the great general and the siege tower on a unit formation is written down. Would adding a position there be of help?
Since the siege engine isn't used anymore after the melee era's, would it be possible to link it to the siege tower in the first era's, but to the marine unit in the later era's?

No point in going into explanations about the SDK I guess, so I'll just say a short "no".

On the modified .dll thing, I have a BtS 3.19 version which allows the use of another unit graphic in every era of the vanilla game (7 era's thus). I plan to work with that one once the building graphics part of my mod is done. If that siege animation can be split over 2 graphics in different era's of the game, would you be willing to compile the code in that .dll?

Yes, but the graphic can't be split. The siege tower animation uses ART_DEF_UNIT_SIEGE_TOWER, which I modified for Planetfall, but that art_def is referenced nowhere in the SDK. So it must be hardcoded in the executable. So we're stuck with that one artdefine. Okay, that was the somewhat longer version of "no".

 

[GeoModder]

I see. Well, thanks for explaining.
I have such a nagging improvement too which is hardcoded: the watermill. Whatever I try, there's no way I can let it switch graphics according to era's or artstyles.

 

[Maniac]

Lord Tirian, a graphical question.

GeoModder suggested the Extraction Facility (BtS Art\structures\improvements\ExtractionFacility) could be used as the sea borehole improvement (or any other naval building really). However for some reason that graphic is simply invisible for me both in the SceneViewer and in-game. And being selfish I don't want to use graphics I can't see in the game. Do you have any idea what the problem could be? (my computer doesn't use shadernifs for the record) Do you know if this could be fixed somehow?

 

[Pfeffersack]

I installed the new patch h) and browsed as usually the Datalinks for the new stuff and when I came to the Energy Nexus page I received this python error instead of a new graphic:

 

[Lord Tirian]

Do you know if this could be fixed somehow?

Huh, that's a rather peculiar problem... quick questions: Do you play with animations? Does it show up for you in the Final Frontier mod? That might give me some pointers towards the "why"...

I installed the new patch h) and browsed as usually the Datalinks for the new stuff and when I came to the Energy Nexus page I received this python error instead of a new graphic:

Crap. Mea culpa. The only one I didn't test in-game, because I didn't touch the scale, so this had to happen. Not sure why it happened, but I think I messed up an export setting (was playing around with them lately). I've attached a version that works for me in-game - just the nif-file, because the rest is fine. Sorry for that, should've tested it in-game before.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Huh, that's a rather peculiar problem... quick questions: Do you play with animations? Does it show up for you in the Final Frontier mod? That might give me some pointers towards the "why"...

It's invisible both with Animations On and Off. The improvement is always invisible in-game, such as in Final Frontier.
I have the same problems with Asteroids by the way.