Great Library and rage quitting

[Novalia]

i would only build GL if i have an obvious production start (or i'm babylon and researching writing asap anyway).. like others i rarely research writing early enough to try.. if i build it i would never pick something like iron working.. i pick philosophy to sling shot national college.. this really gets your science rocking and sets you up for any victory..

iron working will essentially gimp you.. lets say you really rush iron working via GL.. now you've already forgone valuable buildings to get the GL up asap.. the next thing you build are swordsmen? what about granary shrine water mill or more workers or caravans or settlers or archers.. it would be better (imo) to get the NC up asap and research IW while you catch your city up with what its been missing for the past 20 odd turns..

even better is to skip IW altogether and focus on getting to civil service.. pikes > swordsmen.. plus you get more food.. markets.. horses... then your two techs away from education.

 

[xPrISM]

I used to do the whole GL->Philosophy->NC thing, but found out the higher in difficulty you go the harder it's going to be to get it built. I play on emperor now and I don't even bother trying because it's going to be snatched up. Plus, it forces you to learn how to play without it.

 

[Gustavus Rex]

You don't need GL for SV. Expanding to good city-spots and get them rolling asap is imo way more important.

That beeing said, GL is fun. If you want it above emperor you will need to work hard for it and have some luck.

This is how I do:

Grow city as big as possible as fast as possible. Sometimes It's better to hammer up a granary fast instead of food.

Tech writing first, then mining. Before build start you need at least one worker. the more the merrier... Steal them, buy them. Build farms till mining hits, then start to chop wood and build mines. Tech calendar to be able to get philosophy for free and with NC before rapid expand.

SP, if tradition, go for wonderbonus first.

If liberty, go for hammers, then worker if needed. Settler is better though to snag a good spot. Keep happiness in mind.

If you stumble on a pantheon you can pick 15% +wonderbuilder


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[Doktor Vic Tim]

Remember: Production not put into the Great Library is production put into infrastructure and units. You can also consider using "Would be" GL constructing turns into growth turns. Not even close to optimal, but I guess it's one step towards not being too obsessed with too many wonders.

 

[Asklepios]

Can anyone run me through how you get GL by turn 25?

Getting Pottery takes you to Turn 10, and Writing to turn 22 ish or so... How do you get the GL built so fast?

Even if you play Shoshone and select tech as your first bonus, you have to be luckly enough to get the right science tech and to do so just after you finish Pottery. Even then that leaves only 15 turns to build GL, which even with a Hill start and Salt is pushing it.

 

[Silverman6083]

Can anyone run me through how you get GL by turn 25?

Getting Pottery takes you to Turn 10, and Writing to turn 22 ish or so... How do you get the GL built so fast?

Even if you play Shoshone and select tech as your first bonus, you have to be luckly enough to get the right science tech and to do so just after you finish Pottery. Even then that leaves only 15 turns to build GL, which even with a Hill start and Salt is pushing it.

By pre-chopping forests, then chopping all at once.

 

[kamex]

By pre-chopping forests, then chopping all at once.

I'm assuming this requires free Mining from a ruin then, otherwise thats another 7/8 turns getting that, plus, how can you chop forests all at once unless you have one worker per forest.

 

[Anhellia]

Great Library isn't even that great, you should never even go after it, as AI will most likely beat you to it.

The key to Science Victory is building Unis, Schools and Research Centres in every city, fill the science slots and let the good time rolling.

Early game wonders aren't that great anyway and Oracle is one of the best. Later on Porcelain Tower and Tower of Pizza will help you much more with science victory, more than Great Library ever could. However you don't need any wonder to win science victory, especially on Kings difficulty.

 

[JohnnyKing]

No, losing the GL race doesn't mean you will fail. You are going to be a little behind. If you have a balance with technologies, it won't slow you the littlest.

 

[Chum]

I'm assuming this requires free Mining from a ruin then, otherwise thats another 7/8 turns getting that, plus, how can you chop forests all at once unless you have one worker per forest.

Hah, yeah, it's pretty funny that when you start breaking down the ridiculous claims, they're based upon equally ridiculous circumstances. Yeah, I'm sure it's entirely possible to get a GL on turn 25 when you start with 6 workers in the middle of a forest and just happen to get writing and mining from a ruin.

 

[Zaimejs]

A Good GL rush should be under turn 25, if you can't get it by turn 25 or below you will not get it in a realistic game vs humans. Don't even go for it if you can't get it by 25.

Gotta love those games where some one gets it on turn 23 and 2 other players rage quit, ruining the game. Don't base your game on early wonders people!

How? how could you possibly get it this fast?

It takes 7-10 to research pottery. It takes another 10-15 to research Writing. Then you have the build the thing... even assuming you can steal a worker this early in the game, you won't have any other techs to improve anything.

You can't possibly have any helpful policies by turn 25.

I don't understand how it would be mathematically possible to have the GL built by turn 25... doesn't make any sense to me at all.

 

[Novalia]

Turn 25... He's talking about mp/quick speed.

 

[goodolarchie]

TGL on Deity and even Immortal seems lucrative, especially using it to slingshot straight to National College. The trouble with this mindset is that, as the human player in this game, you start out so severely disadvantaged that a free tech does very little, and has an immense opportunity cost. Petra, Chichen, and Hanging Gardens are far better competitive wonders IMO at higher difficulty because they don't require you to beeline Writing, be militarily vulnerable, or get lucky with ruins.

I've only ever managed to get TGL on Deity with Spain, and that was because King Solomon's mines was 6 tiles from my capital. It didn't really make a tremendous difference by midgame, and that start was going to be in my favor regardless.

My advice is forget TGL, it will only break your heart more and more as you progress in difficulty. Instead focus on the long term of how you can be competitive by midgame and execute your victory condition.

 

[civ54lyfe]

Hanging Gardens are far better competitive wonders IMO at higher difficulty because they don't require you to beeline Writing

does Mathematics not require Writing? also i agree H.Gardens is super. it costs super hammers and sometimes i'll pre-chop 2-3 forests to get ready (i know a lot of you guys would rather improve all workable tiles first, but meh)

 

[Navelgazer]

GL used to be my #1 priority wonder, and now I don't even bother with it, even on lower levels. It's just too highly prioritized by the AI and at a time when hammers are at their most crucial. Plus it makes it take twice as long to get a library. The best use for it is probably sling-shotting to the Oracle, but that just makes it even more of a gamble.

 

[Slotharoo]

Obtaining the Great Library doesn't necessarily mean an instant 'win', although it is extremely nice to have. On emperor and above it's just plain too risky to even attempt building it. I notice that whenever I used to build the GL, I'd always end up loosing out on infrastructure due to the sheer amount of turns it took to produce. In my opinion, worker (or granary, or even settler) + library is a better combination and will place you ahead in science long term. Also, if going for the GL, your tech path would have to be set at Pottery -> Writing. Not going for this wonder equates to more variability and diversity in your strategy, which is a very good thing.

 

[Calouste]

GL used to be my #1 priority wonder, and now I don't even bother with it, even on lower levels. It's just too highly prioritized by the AI and at a time when hammers are at their most crucial. Plus it makes it take twice as long to get a library. The best use for it is probably sling-shotting to the Oracle, but that just makes it even more of a gamble.

You don't have to slingshot to the Oracle, at least at Emperor, where I play, the AI rarely seems to go for it.

 

[Streams]

Just lost the Oracle on t.100 on Emperor. No clue who built it yet. I went with ToA (a gamble on t.70) and Petra (another late gamble), but that's where things starting going awry.

Just got ToA because I'm playing with Ashurbanipal and wanted the UB, so that I didn't go with GL.

 

[Croc104]

I too used to hinge my games on the GL. One of the best pieces of advice I have taken from these forums is not to bother with it.

As others have said, it's damn near impossible to get on Deity anyway and even at lower difficulties, the hammers required are better used on other aspects of growing a mighty empire!

 

[beetle]

Does losing the GL race result in restarts for anyone else? I know I don't play on IMM/Deity like many on here, but to me, not building GL seems like an automatic quit/restart.

Confessing to make you feel better, since everyone is so critical! If I miss the first wonder I am trying to hard build (usually Pyramids, but sometimes Stonehenge, and rarely the Great Lighthouse) I will reload from the turn I started to build the wonder. The lost turns are just too much of a handicap. But, like others on this thread, I have all but given up on the Great Library (Babylon would be one exception).