Great Library on Emperor.

[strijder20]

I started a game as Alexander, and tried to use the GLib free tech on Civil Service. But even with a direct beeline I get beaten by about 5 turns to it.
Am I just unlucky and is there a wonder-spammer out there, or is it very unlikely to get the GLib on Emperor?

 

[Syailendra]

Can you tell exact turn number when this happened? And your time settings.
Imo, early GL is never worth the hammers, if somehow it's neglected by the ai until medeival, i'll build it though.

 

[Casablancas]

You can still get it most of the time, as long as you prioritize it. Even on Emperor. And if you happen to have Ramses in your game you can always unlock the Aristocracy SP

 

[strijder20]

Can you tell exact turn number when this happened? And your time settings.
Imo, early GL is never worth the hammers, if somehow it's neglected by the ai until medeival, i'll build it though.

I was playing on Normal, and it was turn 40.

You can still get it most of the time, as long as you prioritize it. Even on Emperor. And if you happen to have Ramses in your game you can always unlock the Aristocracy SP

It was probably Ramesses - I abandoned that game and started a new one, where I could get it by 2000 BC (turn 50) without getting beaten to it.
Yes, tradition seems to be a good option when you are planning to construct an early wonder.

Why is early GLib not worth it? There is not much to build anyway, aside from other wonders, workers and settlers, and if you go Lib you get a free unit of the latter two. I also like the free Library and the small beaker boost a lot.

 

[black213]

I find myself getting it all the time on Emperor as long as I beeline to it and start building it ASAP.

 

[Syailendra]

Oh yeah, turns 40 at emperor is unusual for the ai to build GL. Maybe it got calendar or writing from hut, probably it is egypt. I've always found that rushbuy library and nc following it will give you more beakers mathematicaly, it's because early tech are low in beakers. After medieval, the free tech is more expensive and build time is shorter, then GL have some worth.

 

[strijder20]

Oh yeah, turns 40 at emperor is unusual for the ai to build GL. Maybe it got calendar or writing from hut, probably it is egypt. I've always found that rushbuy library and nc following it will give you more beakers mathematicaly, it's because early tech are low in beakers. After medieval, the free tech is more expensive and build time is shorter, then GL have some worth.

Oh, but I usually take CS/Theo, and those are technically not classical/earlyl anymore. What techs do you take, then? Education?

 

[Optional]

You can get the Great Library on every level, but the higher you go up, the more luck you need. On Immortal and Deity you're dependent on the AI not beelining to it straight, on Immortal I know from experience the AI can get it in the 30-ish turns, you just have to hope they're not that quick.
Philosophy will often turn out to be the best tech you can get for free on the highest levels. But if you don't build the Great Library you will also often see that the AI gets it as late as turn 80 - 100. You never know this beforehand. The only thing you can keep an eye on is when the AI gets Writing, but you'll probably not know all civs on the map yet.

Emperor would always give a more than decent chance, though.

I personally play Immortal and it's bit 50-50 whether I'll go for the Great Library or not. If my production is average I won't try.
There are sacrifices to be made, it hurts your expansion, empire strength, and depending on your resources also your production and happiness. For example, you have stone, and perhaps marble, but you don't want to research Masonry, because then you'd certainly miss out on Civil Service or whatever as your free tech.
The Great Library is nice, but the sacrifices or often overlooked.

 

[Syailendra]

Hmmm... From GL? I don't have it that often, but i guess, i'll take civalry or even gunpowder. Education is also good, but i think i'll research it manually with ease if i already have nc standing at my capital.
Just go and try both way, and try to look at how many beakers you've gained at turns 70 (calculate total beakers from all founded tech). For me i've found that nc start is stronger.

 

[DevilHell]

I don't know if you are doing this, but building order to beeline GL should be Scout-Granary, and of course, having hills in your borders, if you don't have good production, the effort is useless, even if you get it, the sacrifices, that Optional listed, are not worth it.

 

[The Pilgrim]

if you don't have good production, the effort is useless, even if you get it, the sacrifices, that Optional listed, are not worth it.

This.

strijder20, you were unlucky. Indeed turn 40 for emperor is unusually early. But although you can get it pretty comfortably on this level most of the time, it's shouldn't be an automatic pick. If there are good city spots around - build settlers and grab them. If you spawned close to aggressive neighbor - build units. There are almost always better things to do. That kind of commitment has to be justified.
That being said, if you do go for early wonder anyways, try to check out AI capitals and see whether they're building it or not, whether they have marble or not, keep and eye on their SP choices and on date they discover writing etc. If you have Egypt as opponent, you'll either lose the race or get hate for beating him to it. You cannot spy on all AI, obviously. Still your chances increase with each one that is ruled out.

 

[notadummy]

don't worry, I once had it go on turn 40 at KING difficulty O.o
remember to chop those forests after you beeline writing -> mining
personally, at higher lvls, its best to avoid the GL and focus on other wonders like the HS and PT

 

[Tabarnak]

You can get the Great Library on every level, but the higher you go up, the more luck you need. On Immortal and Deity you're dependent on the AI not beelining to it straight, on Immortal I know from experience the AI can get it in the 30-ish turns, you just have to hope they're not that quick.
Philosophy will often turn out to be the best tech you can get for free on the highest levels. But if you don't build the Great Library you will also often see that the AI gets it as late as turn 80 - 100. You never know this beforehand. The only thing you can keep an eye on is when the AI gets Writing, but you'll probably not know all civs on the map yet.

Emperor would always give a more than decent chance, though.

I personally play Immortal and it's bit 50-50 whether I'll go for the Great Library or not. If my production is average I won't try.
There are sacrifices to be made, it hurts your expansion, empire strength, and depending on your resources also your production and happiness. For example, you have stone, and perhaps marble, but you don't want to research Masonry, because then you'd certainly miss out on Civil Service or whatever as your free tech.
The Great Library is nice, but the sacrifices or often overlooked.

Good advice.

You can also expand a few more cities before starting the GL. With a granary, you can work 2 mines and a few extra tiles. If you have some forests around, this can be pretty powerful for the long run. Get 2-3 more cities ASAP then hard build libraries everywhere while you finish the GL in your capital. Sell extra ressources to rush buy some workers to accelerate things everywhere. Then you can start on NC at a decent turn.

 

[Resonance]

An indicator for the AI's likeliness to finish GL before you possibly can is the literacy stat in demographics. It stays at 0% until one gets writing. This is true for players and the AI alike. You do not need to meet other Civs for this display. If you check every turn, you will know the precise moment when an AI gets writing, and how many Civs have it already.

 

[chazzycat]

Yeah emperor is kind of the highest level where you can get it regularly. Immortal is a total crapshoot, it can go between 30 and 100. Deity is quite difficult to get it period.

Also agree with Optional re the costs. For the most part I'd rather have a few cities up, more military, have all my techs to improve the land, etc. Honestly can't remember the last time I went for it, unless starting with marble and popping writing from a ruin.