Great Spys

[jlindy]

O.K. This subject has most likely been beat to death , but as I just started playing BtS in earnest so I'll ask... What's the best use for a great spy? I've got one I'm not quite sure what to do with.

 

[Silence101]

Personally, I like to build the (spy building - forgot the name...) with my first great spy. Usually I'll settle any remaining great spies in that same city (usually my capital) to build an quasi-espionage / science city. Settled great spies provide some nice research too... great for supplementing my science city.

I've heard of people using great spies on another civ to get loads EP's toward them and steal techs. I've never done this, but it sounds like a solid plan as well... I guess it just depends on what your overall strategy is.

 

[Sagery]

In the long run, the best idea is to build the Scotland Yard with one. Still, it's pretty fun to use it on another civ, especially early on in the game. You can see their information, and they won't be able to catch up with you for a long while, if ever.

 

[oPlaiD]

If you get one very early in the game, like from building the Great Wall, bombing it on someone is pretty amazing since you can steal 5-6 techs from them, usually.

If you settled it, you'd probably get a pretty huge bonus, too, since there isn't a way for any other civ to increase their espionage production that early in the game other than through that, and you'd have a constant flow of points against everyone.

 

[TheFreshMaker]

Most of the time, I just settle the first one for the Building(Can't remember name). Sometimes, I'll sneak him into another city and steal a couple techs.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

I use them for a golden age.

 

[Refar]

For occasional spying Settling (Sometimes Infiltration, if a really good target at hand). If pop one late game, golden age.

For heavy spy games (i.g. stealing instead of self-teching) Scotland Yard, Scotland Yard, Scotland Yard, ...

 

[vicawoo]

In the long run, settling them is better than bombing.

 

[Munch]

I'm surprised that most people build Scotland Yard with their first Great Spy. In the early game you are only generating 4 per turn (pre-Courthouses/Jails etc) without using the slider, and doubling this with Scotland Yard is only a +4 bonus. Settling the spy gives you +12 and some too, so I think this is by far the best choice of the two in the early game. If you get your first Great Spy later on though, when you are already generating more than 12 in one city, then it would be better to build Scotland Yard there, but you miss out on those free

I haven't tried infiltrating an enemy yet, so can't comment on how useful that is.

 

[Refar]

If Running a Spy Oriented Economy every GSpy should make a SY. Because by not building a Scotland Yard longterm you will loose 22 from the buildings only. Much more if you run the slider/specialists (which you do). In A EE you will have 9 (Plalace/Courthouse/Spy) in your capital by the time you pop the early GS from great wall... 3 More are just 20% slider... So even if you loose some very short term by not settling, it's worth it. And about you basically don't care.

If you are not running a EE, settling is a good option, because of the immediate boost you gain, and because SY will become strong at a much later point in the game. However you will most likely not pop many Great Spys...

 

[Munch]

If Running a Spy Oriented Economy every GSpy should make a SY. Because by not building a Scotland Yard longterm you will loose 22 from the buildings only. Much more if you run the slider/specialists (which you do). In A EE you will have 9 (Plalace/Courthouse/Spy) in your capital by the time you pop the early GS from great wall... 3 More are just 20% slider... So even if you loose some very short term by not settling, it's worth it. And about you basically don't care.

If you are not running a EE, settling is a good option, because of the immediate boost you gain, and because SY will become strong at a much later point in the game. However you will most likely not pop many Great Spys...

I see. I haven't played an espionage-heavy game to date, and was looking to try it out. Any recommendations or tips? Obviously a Phi leader would be ideal, but is there anything else to consider when choosing a leader or map type?

I've only ever really utilised espionage in the mid-late stages of the game when I can turn up the slider and see a serious boost to my output (with many courthouses/jails etc); I've used this only against one or maybe two AIs who I envisage a war with, in order that I can see their research, perhaps their cities, and be prepared for taking down their city defenses when war comes. What are the general strategies when trying a spy specialist heavy game, e.g. is it worth constantly pestering the AIs with small-cost missions or waiting for big ones like steal tech or city revolt? Would you neglect military to an extent to focus on spy units and channeling into ?

That's a lot of questions, and probably the wrong thread!

 

[Minmaster]

i usually infiltrate my neighbors and steal a bunch of techs and/or declare war on them and use the points to revolt the cities so i don't need artillery.

 

[Refar]

I see. I haven't played an espionage-heavy game to date, and was looking to try it out. Any recommendations or tips? Obviously a Phi leader would be ideal, but is there anything else to consider when choosing a leader or map type?

I've only ever really utilised espionage in the mid-late stages of the game when I can turn up the slider and see a serious boost to my output (with many courthouses/jails etc); I've used this only against one or maybe two AIs who I envisage a war with, in order that I can see their research, perhaps their cities, and be prepared for taking down their city defenses when war comes. What are the general strategies when trying a spy specialist heavy game, e.g. is it worth constantly pestering the AIs with small-cost missions or waiting for big ones like steal tech or city revolt? Would you neglect military to an extent to focus on spy units and channeling into ?

That's a lot of questions, and probably the wrong thread!

Oh the thread is about espionage... somehow... but rhather than answering everything myself... http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=252489 < a more or less recent walkthrough... there are also someSuccession Games focusing on espionage...

 

[pxpdoo]

Quick question, while we're on the subject;
Past two (2) games (including one on lower difficulty, just to test it out) I've been actively driving espionage against everyone, but by the time I win I STILL have not seen either the "Spies cannot enter our borders" Passive effect, OR the "Kill Spy" Mission available to spies stationed in my cities THE TURN BEFORE an espionage mission was pulled in that exact city.
My ratio has been as high as 2,000 v. 12,000, not wasting points pulling missions (besides the occasional Counterespionage)...
Any thoughts?

 

[Refar]

I never heard of "Spies Cannot enter Our Boarders" or "Kill Spy" missions

You can run a counter espionage mission, giving you a better interception chance for 10 turns...

 

[Silbeg]

I guess I typically (now) go the route of settling my first GS, and #2 become Scotland Yard. With just those two, my capital (typically where this is happening) goes from 4 to 32, probably the biggest gain I am going to get for a long time.

If I were to get more Great Spies, I would also settle them in the same city as my Scotland Yard. That has only happened infrequently, but 2 Great Spies plus SY, plus capital (and probably courthouse) would grant (4 + 24 + 4) * 2 = 64 (assuming my arithmetic is correct).

But, I really haven't analyzed the use of infiltrating for gathering techs... guess I am too often thinking I am going to be in the lead for techs (I tend to play Monarch these days... but that is a recent occurrence).

That's my 2cents!

 

[pxpdoo]

Refar;

I'm certain I've read about these, and almost certain that it was in the physical manual that came with BtS... Part of why I was excited about espionage lol
I'll dig out the manual this evening and double-check.

 

[eewallace]

When one of my close neighbors is a tech leader, I like to use a great spy to infiltrate, followed by a herd of regular spies to steal techs. When that isn't possible, I usually use great spies for a golden age.

 

[Minmaster]

I never heard of "Spies Cannot enter Our Boarders" or "Kill Spy" missions

yeah seriously, i have never seen these. are we playing the same game, lol?

 

[pxpdoo]

Beyond the Sword Game Manual, Page 17:

<Mission> (Top of page)
"Kill Spy: Kills all spies within your spy's visibility. Can only be performed within your own borders."

<Passive Missions> (Bottom of page)
"Spies Cannot Enter Our Borders: Spies from the Civilization against which you have gathered sufficient points cannot enter your borders."

Anyone ever use these?