Great Wonders Elimination Thread

[Civ Chemist]

Mont St. Michel [4] (3+1): Have to defend Mont St. Michel one last time before it goes. I can understand why it is so low as many people don't seem to have a lot of experience with Reliquaries strategies or have tried it a couple of time with not much success. But I stant firm with my belief, that reliquaries is the most reliable strategy of getting fast culture victories. And even if you don't win very quickly you'll have more than enough faith to win soon after unlocking conservation or latest after rock bands. For those who have never tried or failed reliquaries strategies, let me give you a quick explanation of the general strategy: Start with Holy Sites in all your cities (at least first 5-6) and build it's buildings quickly. Choose either Religious Settlement, holy site adjacency or culture pantheon. For your religion pick reliquaries and missionary zeal (this is key as it allows you to easily hunt down enemy religious units to suicide your apostles). Rush temples and start building Mahabodhi (don't need to finish very quickly, as the AI never builds it this early). Even buy a couple of apostles before finishing the wonder if you have the faith. You might get lucky with the Martyr promotion otherwise send them already into enemy territory to chip away their health so they are ready for suicide once you finish Mont St. Michel. Then rush Mont St. Michel (I usually settle a city just for this wonder) and then rush St. Basil's (again usually settle another city just for this wonder). And then just suicide apostles unitl you run out of relics slots. Chop holy sites in new cities and buy shrines and temples for more slots. Support this buy building theater squares in you core cities and then trade districts to get the +25% from trade routes. If you have high campus adjacency build a couple of them, but you can also completely ignore them.

And the key to this whole strategy is Mont St. Michel (a wonder the AI never prioritises this early). I get that it is only helpful for a single victory type, but in my opinion it is that one that has the highest impact (probably with Statue of LIberty for diplomacy) in terms of finishing the game faster. So why is Cristo and Eiffel so much higher, since they also only really affect culture victories and are not even that impactful. If I go reliquaries I never build Eiffel, since I won't even reach it in time before the game is won and I don't remember the last time I had to build Cristo (except for my OCC reliquaries game) before winning the game.

Eiffel Tower [17] (20-3): Sits way to high in my opinion. It has its niche uses outside culture victories (Australia, new Teddy) or earth goddess games, but that should not affect its placement too much. And for culture victories, the big problem is that it comes so late and even worse is located in an akward spot in the tech tree. It also doesn't help that in culture games you are usually not swimming in science. In an appeal game you kind of want to rush Eiffel, but then you are not getting flight, seaside resorts or computers first. And as I said above at least for reliquaries strategies I won't even reach steel before winning the game.

Apadana [12]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [10]
Colosseum [16]
Cristo Redentor [16]
Eiffel Tower [17] (20-3)
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [15]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [24]
Mont St. Michel [4] (3+1)
Oracle [23]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [11]
Potala Palace [13]
Pyramids [24]
Ruhr Valley [9]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [12]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [9]

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Huh. Alhambra wasn't exactly long for this contest, but losing policy slot wonders this early on feels rather strange, given how useful policies are in general. In fact, I'm rather surprised that Terracotta Army outlasted Alhambra.

Totally agree, I guess this is why we do these threads as we all have different views but I regard Alhambra as a top 10 wonder. It's useful in most circumstances but especially when you are not going Domination and therefore likely to have less military policy slots.

Potala Palace [14] 13+1 My focus now turns to another of the extra policy card wonders, Potala comes at a sweet spot just as more useful policy cards become available.

Statue of Liberty [9] 12-3 Only useful for one type of victory and the loyalty bonus is useless in most of the places you will be able to build it.

Apadana [12]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [10]
Colosseum [16]
Cristo Redentor [16]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [15]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [24]
Mont St. Michel [4]
Oracle [23]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [11]
Potala Palace [14]
Pyramids [24]
Ruhr Valley [9]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [9]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [9]

 

[CrabHelmet]

Echoing my bafflement as to why the Alhambra has gone, when bigger mediocrities like the Bolshoi Theatre and the Terracotta Army are still around. A multipurpose tool that supports all victory conditions and is slow to be taken by the AI, gone because... people don't seem to think Military Policy cards are useful, incorrectly stating that you'll be using red-card governments in Dom games anyway? Often my Dom victories are as a Merchant Republic just because Monarchy is so mediocre for generating lots of gold, which is the most important thing for Dom Victories once you're over the initial production hump. The Alhambra can cover that - it gives you flexibility. Then there's how useful it can be in supporting getting a defensive army up very quickly at short notice when playing Science or Cultural Victories; it can contribute to them all. I mean, I can't cry over spilt milk I suppose, but I really think people who pushed the Alhambra out so early need to give it a spin in a higher level of difficulty and maybe subject it to a reappraisal. Anyway...

Apadana [12]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [10]
Colosseum [16]
Cristo Redentor [16]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [15]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [24]
Mont St. Michel [5]
Oracle [23]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [11]
Potala Palace [14]
Pyramids [24]
Ruhr Valley [9]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [9]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6]

Anyone downvoting the Mont St. Michel simply hasn't properly examined a Reliquaries Cultural Victory. This is without a doubt the fastest way to win Cultural Victories and while specific is very reliable due to the fact the AI don't care about Mont St. Michel in the slightest. Yes, Yerevan can (sort of) replicate Mont St. Michel, but... Yerevan is the best City-State in the game, and if I encounter it while I can still obtain a Religion, I will immediately switch to aiming for Religious Victory regardless of what I was previously doing (Bologna coming over Yeveran in the City-States thread was one of the worst decisions I've seen, but again, spilt milk). Given that's how good Yerevan is, and Mont St. Michel fills an adjacent enough niche, that should really speak to just how good the Mont St. Michel is.

Yes, it isn't a generalist wonder. It's not the Oracle - you won't build it in literally every game you play. But Civ isn't about being a jack of all trades, especially at the highest difficulty levels, where I'd rather a wonder was niche but spectacularly good in that niche than does a little bit of everything all the time, because usually I know which niche I'm aiming for. Yes 4/5 games I won't go for the Mont St. Michel, but in those I do, it's game-changing and essential to how that strategy works.

Meanwhile, the Terracotta Army... yeah, this thing is aggressively mediocre. The free Promotions is not that useful, because the Terracotta Army is very early in the tech tree and the AI is very keen on it, so I tend not to have the world's largest army when I complete it even if I am pushing for a Domination Victory, just because of how early it is - it's unlocked by Construction for goodness sakes, I don't even have Crossbows yet and my Domination army tends to consist of about 2-3 Swordsmen and 5-6 Archers, with maybe a few mounted units if I really think I need them this early. Given frontline units like Swordsmen are just really hard to preserve as frontline meatshield units (and also melee units become less and less useful as soon as Knights come onto the scene anyway, and for the rest of the game thereon), this is like "you get 5-6 slightly better Archers". Big whoop, much thanks. You would have been better off using the same production to... build more units, because more units > better units (unless the gulf is really huge, which a single Promotion won't do). To draw the contrast here, the Terracotta Army costs the same Production as two Crossbows and a little bit. I'd rather go from 6 Archers to 6 Archers and 2 Crossbows than to 6 promoted Archers.

The real benefit of the free Promotions is for a particularly difficult siege or "one last push" - it's the free heals at a crucial moment when approaching an enemy Capital or big city very early. I have had the occasional game where this made a real difference. However... this is really hard to time properly and a lot of the time I miss it by a few turns either way even with careful planning and my units heal either too early or too late to be helpful. This is much less useful than anything the Alhambra offered.

Finally, the Archaeologist access is pointless, for several reasons. Firstly, the synergy between Cultural Victories and Domination Victories is really poor, except for very early-game conquest. I don't often transition from Domination Victories to Cultural Victories unless I really, really messed up early on and it is a measure of last resort. Second, if you are doing a Cultural Victory, you will have Open Borders with basically everyone anyway to snipe any crucial Archaeology sites. Third, Archaeology is vastly worst than Art Museums, requiring silly amounts of Production by comparison for basically comparable returns, so even if I do transition to Cultural Victories, I don't use Archaeology except as maybe Ethiopia. Fourth, usually I have enough Archaeological sites in my own territory or at sea to occupy my time anyway.

This (and other mediocrities like the Bolshoi Theatre) should have gone a long time ago. I respect the opinion that the Temple of Artemis and Ruhr Valley are overrated, and probably agree somewhat with both, but they're undeniably top 15 Wonders and the silly back and forth over them is letting the bottom of the voting completely unravel with Wonders going out in a very odd order as people are focusing too much on the top. I don't know how I'm supposed to write the summary of results when the results are so contrary to my experience of play.

 

[Josephias]

-3) Statue of Liberty (9 >> 6) Statue of Liberty is not that useless. It has is uses, and indeed turns out quite handy... when you need a beachhead to conquer a different continent and you find it built by the AI in a city that is rightly positioned for a conquest disembark . Therefore not a wonder you need to build yourself, unless you want to shave off some turns in Diplo Victory. Indeed, it is probably the +4DV points what has keept it (deservedly) in the list up to now. But is that enough to keep it much more?.

+1) Ruhr Valley (9 >> 10) As commented earlier, experience may vary as it is a wonder which needs specific locations to shine. Of course, not as obvious as Petra, Halicarnassus or the like, but if you are not able to mine most of the city surroundings, of course the benefit may be not worth. Yet the need for good placement is still not a major defining factor (even if it may be when we reach top 15). Ruhr needs to stay a bit more.

Apadana [12]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [10]
Colosseum [16]
Cristo Redentor [16]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [15]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [24]
Mont St. Michel [5]
Oracle [23]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [11]
Potala Palace [14]
Pyramids [24]
Ruhr Valley [10]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [6]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6]

 

[Leucarum]

Mont St Michel is only particularly useful for a religious route and even then not essential... The Coloseum is worth throwing another upvote at. Getting it can set up a compact empire beautifully and you often have a long window of opportunity as the AI doesn't push for it super hard.

Apadana [12]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [10]
Colosseum [17]
Cristo Redentor [16]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [15]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [24]
Mont St. Michel [2]
Oracle [23]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [11]
Potala Palace [14]
Pyramids [24]
Ruhr Valley [10]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [6]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6]

 

[bengalryan9]

Apadana [12]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [10]
Colosseum [17]
Cristo Redentor [16]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [12] (15-3) I like this one... when I play a religious game. Outside of that it does very little, and even when playing a religious game it's not crippling to miss out on.
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [24]
Mont St. Michel [2]
Oracle [23]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [12] (11+1) This one isn't near as hard to build as some are making it out to be. It tends to stick around for a long time too in my experience.
Potala Palace [14]
Pyramids [24]
Ruhr Valley [10]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [6]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6]

 

[Francel]

After reading some of ya'lls commentary, it occurred to me that if any wonder is going to be dinged for being strong with only one victory condition, then every wonder should be dinged for being strong in only one victory condition. Thus, with Statue of Liberty being low, it makes sense that wonders like Cristo and Eiffel Tower should also be lower. Therefore, I revised my earlier tier list to move those culture victory wonders out of my A Tier. Here is my new internal running tier list:

S Tier
1) Kilwa Kisiwani
2) Oracle
3) Mausoleum at Halicarnassus
4) Pyramids
5) Temple of Artemis

A
6) Forbidden City
7) Big Ben
8) Colosseum
9) Petra
10) Potala Palace

Apadana [12]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [10]
Colosseum [17]
Cristo Redentor [13] (16-3) - I believe this was the second wonder I upvoted. I do love reliquaries, after all. However, I don't see this wonder having any substantial value outside of culture victory. Therefore, in accordance with the reasoning presented above, it should be lower.
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [12]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [24]
Mont St. Michel [2]
Oracle [23]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [12]
Potala Palace [14]
Pyramids [24]
Ruhr Valley [10]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [7] (6+1) - It wins 20% of the diplomatic victory. That is substantial. For the sake of parity, it deserves an upvote. It should certainly outlast Mahabodi Temple, per my previous reasoning.
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6]

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Mausoleum [25] (24+1) Double charges for Great Engineers - what’s not to love? Plus, meme yields.

Apadana [9] (12-3) Purely because it’s the hardest to build of the wonders remaining. The bonus itself is strong, but you have to put it your capital, and it has to be adjacent to the city centre, and the AI loves to build it. Miss it more often than not.

Apadana [9] (12-3)
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [10]
Colosseum [17]
Cristo Redentor [13]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [12]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [25] (24+1)
Mont St. Michel [2]
Oracle [23]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [12]
Potala Palace [14]
Pyramids [24]
Ruhr Valley [10]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [7]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6]

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Apadana [9]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [10]
Colosseum [14] (17-3) I dislike this one and I'm not gonna change my mind. It's a good wonder, but the opportunity cost is horrendous. The AI likes to build this a whole lot more than the Mausoleum, and when it does I might just have set myself back a lot by wasting a district slot. The Entertainment Complex is just bad to be stuck with, a distric that I don't want to build, ever.. and especially not early on. Very overrated, even if youtubers claim that it's S tier (lol). Always managed to live fine without it.
Cristo Redentor [13]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [12]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26] (25+1) I second @Drivingrevilo on that one, by far the wonder I'm gunning most for in my games, heck, even when I'm playing cultural. Meme yields are fun, and they rather decent too. Biggest plus is that it's almost never contested, and you want the harbour anyway.
Mont St. Michel [2]
Oracle [23]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [12]
Potala Palace [14]
Pyramids [24]
Ruhr Valley [10]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [7]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6]

 

[kaspergm]

Apadana [9]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [10]
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [13]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [12]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Mont St. Michel [0] (2-3) ELIMINATED - Time to go for this, should have gone before Alhambra, but ok. Has it's niche use, but that's it.
Oracle [23]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [12]
Potala Palace [14]
Pyramids [24]
Ruhr Valley [11] (10+1) - Seems a bit low imo. Sure it's expensive, but production is still king, and this lets you convert production now to production later, or you can use one of the wonder engineers to get this done quickly and speed up future production.
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [7]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6]

EDIT > Just want to comment for those who argue for Mont St. Michel and reliquary strategy: I acknowledge fully that this is not a strategy I have pursued, but my general game strategy is not "win fastest" - if it was, I would probably just go all-out domination. I realize this makes us judge the wonders on somewhat different premises, but as an overall empire-builder player, I find this wonder very limited in its use. However I also agree what someone commented above, that a wonder like Eiffel Tower does seem unusually high in its score.

 

[MrTans]

Pyramids - Just a consistently good wonder to aim for across most games. Rarely seem to have any trouble building it as the AI doesn't often prioritise it in my experience.

Bolshoi Theatre - Not the worst bonuses in the world, but fairly mediocre for this stage in the elimination process. The two free civics are nice, but may not be as useful as you're hoping for if they're not the ones you want discovering upon completion. I rate Oxford University ever so slightly higher in the free tech/civic battle

Apadana [9]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [7]
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [13]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [12]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [23]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [12]
Potala Palace [14]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [11]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [7]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6]

 

[JJOne]

Apadana [9]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [8] (7+1) Two free civics are great. And you can guide your civic research in order to get something expensive/interesting from it.
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [13]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [12]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [23]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [12]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [11]
St. Basil's Cathedral [12] (15-3) Buffs only one city, and sort-of buffs a niche CV strategy.
Statue of Liberty [7]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6]

 

[Jewelrunna]

Apadana [9]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [8]
Colosseum [15] (14 + 1)
Cristo Redentor [13]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [12]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [23]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [12]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [11]
St. Basil's Cathedral [12]
Statue of Liberty [7]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [3] (6 - 3)

Terracotta Army [3] (6 - 3): This is a tough downvote for me to make, because Terracotta to me is a very fun wonder to build. However, I can't deny that it's the worst wonder here, and should've gone before Alhambra (seriously, how did we eliminate Alhambra already?...). People downplay the free promotions, but it's actually pretty potent if you have a large army that already has a few promotions. But that's only part of the problem with Terracotta, that you need some promotions already to get the most out of it. On top of that, you need a large army to get the most out of Terracotta, which leads us to problem two. Terracotta comes out at roughly the same time when you're going to be spamming units, which creates a dilemma: do you rush Terracotta to only get a few promotions on your units, or do you produce a lot of units beforehand to get the most out of it, but risk missing out on it as a result of delaying it? This wonder can be really powerful, but the optimal timing of it is very delicate, which makes it hard to use properly. Oh, and the archaeologist thing is kind of a meme; it's sort of good, but you don't really need it if you're playing a peaceful culture game. On top of that, you need to spend an early district on an encampment to build it, which you're not very inclined to do in a: culture game.

Colosseum [15] (14 + 1): Why is this still outside of the top five? It blatantly should be there. It will increase your culture by roughly 20-30% at the point in which you build it, and you'll never have to worry about amenities ever again. I think some people don't really play for amenities in this thread, which is why some people don't understand how powerful having high amenities in a lot of your cities is. This wonder's amazing. Build it. Vote for it. Love it.

 

[xaiviax]

Almost Always

Apadana [9]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [8]
Colosseum [15]
Cristo Redentor [13]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [9] (12-3) Do I almost always want and need more religious units in all of my games? No. Do I ever want Meme Victory points in the Classical Era? No. In addition, the inherent cost of this wonder is increased by its placement on woods.
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [23]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [12]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [26] (25+1) Do I amost always want and need more builder charges in all of my games? Yes. Do they assist all my strategies, goals, and selected victory type? Yes.
Ruhr Valley [11]
St. Basil's Cathedral [12]
Statue of Liberty [7]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [3]

 

[pjotroos]

Apadana [9]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [8]
Colosseum [12] (15-3) The production cost of this should always include Entertainment Complex and Arena costs, as well as the district slot, as you'd never be building early EC otherwise. And I've lost it after already plopping down the useless district (far) more than once. It gets bee-lined even on Emperor. Yes, the effect is very nice if you manage to drop it in the middle of a massive ring of cities, but the effect is awful if you manage to lose it to another civ.
Cristo Redentor [13]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [9]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [24] (23+1) Don't think I've up-voted Oracle yet. Dropping it down in a city with Pingala can yield some spectacular results, and the AI tends to leave it until later, so it's normally a safe one to build.
Oxford University [11]
Petra [12]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [26]
Ruhr Valley [11]
St. Basil's Cathedral [12]
Statue of Liberty [7]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [3]

 

[lotrmith]

Colosseum - This is getting old. I stand by my earlier statement that if the effect read "+12 culture, +12 amenities" all the naysayers would be singing a different tune. Seriously, Zanzibar gives only the +12 amenities without the Culture and it finished #4 ranked City State overall. You'd do anything you could to obtain and maintain suzereinity of Zanzibar. Yet chopping an Entertainment District and an Arena is too much to ask to get the Colosseum, which gives additional culture on top of the amenities, at a time which both are still fairly scarce. Is it because the Amenities and Culture don't show up for pretty yields on the map? Are amenities not well understood? Is Culture undervalued? At least downvote things that are objectively worse yet standing tied or higher like Artemis or Basil.

I just finished a Deity game with competitors like China and Maori and Gorgo. I specifically avoided Colosseum. It finally went on T110. To Georgia. So, no to the "beeline" arguments too. You remember when you lose it but not when you get it or when you don't even try and it goes all game without being built.

Ruhr - This costs too much for too little return. It's a trap. How long does it take to pay back what it took to build? Too long.

Edit: for consideration- let's say that, without Ruhr but from the time you start it, finish it, and the game ends, your one city's non-Ruhr average production is 100 hammers. Ruhr raises this by 20. But it took 1240 to build. Hence it takes **62 turns** to pay itself back.

Apadana [9]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [8]
Colosseum [13]
Cristo Redentor [13]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [9]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [24]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [12]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [26]
Ruhr Valley [8]
St. Basil's Cathedral [12]
Statue of Liberty [7]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [3]

 

[JhGf_123]

It's a trap

Ruhr Valley: it’s a trap! says Ackbar; but from my perspective the Jedi are evil. I dunno, I’m drunk and this is like one of my favourite wonders, i always build it, something something production is great, leave my Ruhr alone, I hate sand.

Potato Salad: if Alhambra went I dont see a reason to keep Potato, and astornomy is not exactly a technology you’ll ever rush IS IT

Apadana [9]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [8]
Colosseum [13]
Cristo Redentor [13]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [9]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [24]
Oxford University [11]
Petra [12]
Potala Palace [12] (15-3)
Pyramids [26]
Ruhr Valley [9] (8+1)
St. Basil's Cathedral [12]
Statue of Liberty [7]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [3]

 

[enKage]

I strongly believe after last patches, when AI don't rush Apadana, Oxford and Chisto Redentor are next to go. CR I downvoted last time, time for Oxford.

About 20 science per turn late game (10-15 at the time you build it) is too little, techs translated to 3-5 eurekas is too few to stay. I would always choose some wonders already eliminated over it, especially Sankore giving more science earlier, Orszaghaz giving massive gold, A-SRS giving massive science late game or even Maracana, which can be beelined and rushed via Eiffel and give nice science only by rising ammenities to ecstatic.
Oxford -3

Big Ben +1
This boy shouldn't be below 20 with Forbidden City at 23.
Eco slot is fantastic, gold is good, while hyperfantastic if going pre-200t SV. Big Ben is less rushed by AI than Forbidden Palace and is usually easier to place. Of course wildcard is better than eco, but you will use wild slot for yellow card anyway

Apadana [9]
Big Ben [20]
Bolshoi Theatre [8]
Colosseum [13]
Cristo Redentor [13]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [9]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [24]
Oxford University [8]
Petra [12]
Potala Palace [12]
Pyramids [26]
Ruhr Valley [9]
St. Basil's Cathedral [12]
Statue of Liberty [7]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [3]

 

[JesseS]

Mahabodhi Temple [9-3=6] Mahabodhi is only helpful for religious victories and, even then, is far from essential. Ultimately, the 2 apostles Mahabodhi provides cost ~800 faith, so a 5 city Jebel Bakar will break even with this after about 50 turns, with the added benefit of having more flexibility around how that faith is spent. I rarely feel the need to rush to evangelize a religion for beliefs. Needing to be placed on a woods tile isn't great either, as it increases its effective cost by 1 chop.

Colosseum [13+1=14] Yes, the Colosseum has a larger opportunity cost than most wonders and it really sucks if you lose it after building an entertainment complex. +12 or 14 culture and amenities in the late classical era is powerful enough that it's still worth a shot, especially given that the AI doesn't prioritize it nearly as highly as of the last couple patches.

Apadana [9]
Big Ben [20]
Bolshoi Theatre [8]
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [13]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [6]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [24]
Oxford University [8]
Petra [12]
Potala Palace [12]
Pyramids [26]
Ruhr Valley [9]
St. Basil's Cathedral [12]
Statue of Liberty [7]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [3]

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

Apadana [9]
Big Ben [21] (20+1) A wonder so good they actually had to nerf it. It doesn't provide as much gold anymore, but 50% isn't anything to sneeze at. But at least it still offers a free economic policy slot; the best kind of policy cards. I can always find something relevant to slot there.
Bolshoi Theatre [8]
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [13]
Eiffel Tower [17]
Forbidden City [23]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [6]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [24]
Oxford University [8]
Petra [12]
Potala Palace [12]
Pyramids [26]
Ruhr Valley [9]
St. Basil's Cathedral [12]
Statue of Liberty [7]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [3-3=ELIMINATED] I think it's time has come. You can only leverage it if you have a big army (so, usually domination games), but even then if I'm going Dom, I'd rather be building more units for reinforcements and replacements. Plus I find promotions not too hard to get once you get out there and fight. This wonder seems like it's trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.