Grumpy Old Men AWP Hub

[Greebley]

I think fighting in your own territory doesn't give any WW, the WW we currently have (2 unhappy faces) are from the war against Inca.
I agree, let's take them out and then open the choke. We can of course also start a razing campaign against France then, since we can easily reach them from our shores.

I was trying to say the same thing. Kill the Incans to get rid of WW.

On techs, I would like to get RR, Rifling and Mil Trad. I think destroyers need oil which always seems to take a while to get to, so I don't think we can get them quickly. I don't have the tree memorized yet though.

 

[T_McC]

Got it and will start playing tonight.

 

[Bezhukov]

Jails require Constitution, which also opens up Representation gov civ, which is nice with Mercantilism. Nationalism is required along that route, which would let you draft from Cologne.

If you've got any horse archers left over, they remain useful surprisingly late, as they get a bonus against cats, which the AI will keep sending you for centuries yet.

 

[knupp715]

I was trying to say the same thing. Kill the Incans to get rid of WW.

On techs, I would like to get RR, Rifling and Mil Trad. I think destroyers need oil which always seems to take a while to get to, so I don't think we can get them quickly. I don't have the tree memorized yet though.

I agree with the tech plan. Destroyers are a ways away, as you stated. You can't build wells to harvest the oil to build destroyers until Combustion.

I think that we should have a pair of ironclads, every 4-6 tiles from eachother in the ocean because they are extremly slow (2 movement). But if we don't keep them near our territory (which IMO we shouldn't) and keep them about 5-10 tiles away from our cultural border we will be able to see any incoming ships a few turns before they can land units in our territory.

An alternitive to the opening of the choke after the Incans are finished plan, is to open one side of the choke for say 5-10 turns, until you see a lot of AI units coming, and then only let a few in or none at all, and close the choke up. This way, the AI will be building lots of units during this time instead of infrastructure, but when the units get there, they will retreat when the choke closes. We could do this every 20-30 turns or so.

 

[T_McC]

1600 AD (0)
Swap around a bunch of specialists and we're now making +11 gpt with Steam still due in 11.

Really doesn't look like we're going to smote the Incans anytime soon, we don't seem to have very many troops in their area. We also shouldn't be leaving Vilcabamba so empty since enemy Galleys can come up the coast to attack it.

1605 AD (1)
No combat. Shuffle troops preparing to assault Vilcas. Will happen on this round, although we'll have to knock research off to upgrade a couple of units.

1610 AD (2)
Kill an Incan Knight with a Cannon.

We get a Great Merchant. He wants to discover 60% of Economics, which would generate a replacement Merchant. May be worthwhile for denial to the AI, but it can wait.

1615 AD (3)
Gang's all here in Leipzig, and Confucianism spreads there as well. Research off for a turn to upgrade our City Raider Pikes.

1620 AD (4)
Kill another Incan Knight.

1625 AD (5)
Win vs. an Incan Caravel.

1630 AD (6)
Defeat another Incan Knight, and move towards Vilcas. It will burn (and be re-founded) in 3 turns.

1635 AD (7)
Leipzig had completed its theater a couple of turns ago, and now pops its borders. So we've got a 20% boost there.

1640 AD (8)
Win one and lose one in the water, the loss coming with a 30% edge. As a result, abandon the Clams outside Duisberg. We'll have to wait for Ironclads to secure this spot since we couldn't maintain a forward defense by Vilcabamba.

Bombardment at Vilcas goes well, but I'll wait until next turn to get better odds and a chance for a Cannon attack.

1645 AD (9)
Lose the Drill II Cannon in the process (WTH? Drill promotions on a Cannon?) but burn Vilcas to the ground. We'll re-found next turn.

1650 AD (10)
Found Nuremberg and spread Confucianism there.

Final Notes:
The picture indicates that the next Incan city is going to take a while. Troops have been bleeding out of our core towards the Incan front, but I think we should consider building a couple of Galleys now that we have a port so close to our core. I doubt the units in Machu will attack Nuremberg, but we have a City Garrison III Grenadier due to arrive there next turn.

The AI have no idea what to do about the fortresses. No units even approached during my round. The AI is also very fond of exploring with boats that don't have units on them, so once we do have Ironclads it will be a turkey shoot on the high seas. It shouldn't be that difficult to get to 4-move Ironclads, although it would be easier if we could put Blitz on a boat.

I kept nixing the Ironworks in Berlin because I think we want West Point there. Then we can have 10-XP boats as well.

I let Cologne grow out a bit since we didn't have an urgent need for troops. Maybe once the current unit completes we can whip a Drydock there and build boats?

I would think Rifles next is good, but Military Tradition is a ways off. We may be in for a rude awakening soon unless the AI is suffering badly from WW. Our research is getting to be rather slow and if the AI would work together they may catch us in tech. Of course, once we whack Machu Picchu we may be able to roll the Incans and thus be twice as large as any of the other AI, so ...

The Merchant is fortified awaiting our next non-Merchant GP, which should be due in about 25 turns.

 

[Greebley]

1600 AD (0)
I would think Rifles next is good, but Military Tradition is a ways off. We may be in for a rude awakening soon unless the AI is suffering badly from WW. Our research is getting to be rather slow and if the AI would work together they may catch us in tech. Of course, once we whack Machu Picchu we may be able to roll the Incans and thus be twice as large as any of the other AI, so ...

My gut feeling is that the AI is behind us in tech and won't catch up any time soon. I haven't seen very advanced units from them. The french city we took out on my previous turn had nothing exciting guarding it for example. I have been able to stay ahead of the AI in research even in a non-AW setting at Prince, so it is not unreasonable that we will stay ahead here.

Maybe we should send a boat over and check out an AI city. Is the AI up to gunpowder yet? If they are, those troops hadn't reached the check point when I closed it up.

Once we have Ironclads, lets send some out to see what troops we do see. That will give us a better idea.

Grabbing the Incan lands will slow our science a bit, but will ultimately increase it. We also get much more production. Lets not pillage their lands so we have ready-made towns to help with this.

 

[Bezhukov]

lurker comment:

"Once we have Ironclads, lets send some out to see what troops we do see."

Unhealthy civs are also smaller civs are also dumber civs. Though caravels can't pillage, clads sure can.

 

[ThERat]

Roster
ThERat
Greebley
T_McC
knupp715 - up

 

[knupp715]

Got the save, will play tonight.

 

[knupp715]

I'm gonna have to ask for a skip, sorry guys. Would have posted sooner, but something came up yesterday and I don't think I will have enough time to pull off a turnset tonight and I don't want to slow the game down. Sorry again.

 

[ThERat]

ok, I will take it tonight then.
Hope with ironclads, we will rule the sea once again.

 

[Sirian]

Physics -> Uranium -> Destroyers

 

[ThERat]

Physics -> Uranium -> Destroyers

you mean we do not need oil for destroyers?
Anyway, the issue is, that we have so many techs that would benefit us. Communism, fascism, constitution etc etc...

 

[LKendter]

you mean we do not need oil for destroyers?
Anyway, the issue is, that we have so many techs that would benefit us. Communism, fascism, constitution etc etc...

lurker's comment: You need oil *or* Uranium for destroyers.

 

[T_McC]

Yes, we'll have uranium before we can dig an oil well, so our Destroyers will be nuke-ular.

But I don't think we can research Physics yet anyway. We don't have Scientific Method or Astronomy yet.

 

[Bezhukov]

lurker comment:

An oil well can be seen with Sci Meth, and dug with Combustion, neither of which require killing your good old Colossus, so my bet is on oil before uranium. Although your war-whiners will probably convince you to find a dictator to quell them before either.

 

[ThERat]

save

Pre-Turn
check the tech path, we could also use Mil trad and need nationalism anyway sooner or later
decide to whip cannon in Cologne, we should whip some clads there once we have coal
send a knight into Hamburg to make it happy again

IT a knight atacks Nuremburg and dies {1-0], there are surely lots of enemy boats around
time we get clads

1. 1652AD
fairly eventless turn. shifting units closer to the front

2. 1654AD
steam is in, decide to go for rifling in 11
we do have a coal source at Hamburg
Colgone produced a work boat for Leipzig starts a clad that is whipped
whip court in Duisburg

IT we defeat another caravel at berlin on defense [2-0]

3. 1656AD
clad at Cologne starts to clear a big stack of naval units beating a caravel

IT grenadier defeats knight on defense [3-0]

4. 1658AD
Berlin churns out 1st ironclad that is promoted to extra movement and sent south
sink 2 galleys with ironclad and a caravel that hides underneath the clad
start moving a stack towards Ica

IT defeat a caravel that attacks a caravel covering some net [6-0]

5. 1660AD
stakc is next to Isa that is defended by only 2 units, Cologne clad defeats another galley [7-0]

IT defeat galley with a galley on defense [8-0]

6. 1662AD
Hamburg now has a bank
defeat 2 xbows in front of Nuremburg
sink yet another galley near Cologne, that area is almost free of naval units now

bomb Ica's defenses and take city defeating 2 units without losses
whip next clad in Cologne for the southern defenses [13-0]

7. 1664AD
thanks to Ica, WW now at 4 faces
start plan 'empty Machu Picchu' taking away our caravel hoping the AI will then send out the galleys to be picked by clads

8. 1666AD
defeat caravel and galley [15-0]
we have 2 more clads, one covers the choke near Stuttgart, the other defends the west

9. 1668AD
Machu Picchu plan does not seem to work, guess we have to take it out with a strong force
get a clad to the choke in the east so that our north is safe

defeat 2 caravels [17-0]

10. 1670AD
2 more caravels die at the hands of our clads [19-0]
all the forests in our core are milled, next player should advance towards machu Pichu and then start taking out
Incas, we do not need that many clads for the time being, Bremen and Cologne can do that
the rest should go for military units.
Rifling is due in 2 turns with a deficit

 

[ThERat]

Roster
ThERat
Greebley - up
T_McC
knupp715

we should get RR but the research time is pretty long, maybe we get nationalism first? I hope we can start a real offense soon, I didn't want to attack with a trickle due to WW. We better overwhelm the enemy with our forces and quickly take them out. Once we control the southern seas, we should be able to handle landings as well.

 

[T_McC]

The only difficulty with capturing Ica is that we've given the Egyptians a soft target and may have to defend landings there. Unless a couple of our Ironclads are already down there, in which case the Egyptian army will die on boats.

I figure once Rifling is in we should drop 2-3 Rifles in the forest outside of Machu Picchu. That should get the Incans to attack (and lose) pretty heavily. I think Rifles can even be promoted to Woodsman II, but I'm not sure. The AI seems to have places where units get "stuck" and just accumulate. Putting the city under threat should un-stick the units.

I guess we should be looking for better civics, so Nationalism sounds good. Alternatively we could run Scientific Method-Communism to get into State Property. Not sure which order is better since we've got some WW to deal with. At this stage there is almost no point to building either our FP or Versailles since neither helps with # of cities maintenance.

How soon do we get our next GP? We should be able to trip a GA with the next one, unless it's an Engineer and we want a free wonder.

 

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it.

Moving 10 squares to reach the front and defend cities would really help, IMO, but other techs also sound worthwhile. Not sure on what I would choose as it depends on how long things take to research.

I don't think I want to go for WW reducing techs yet as they will come in about the time that the Incans are destroyed, so we will really need them for the next war.

Nationalism/Mil Trad or RR will probably be my first choices. Cavalry would also be nice.