Guess the New Civs

[Louis XXIV]

They're all Insular Celtic languages. As long as they stay on that tree, I'm happy.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Technically, Boudicca would have spoken a Brythonic rather than Gaelic language, and Welsh would be the most widely spoken modern example of those. (Interestingly, Pictish may well also be an example of Brythonic Celtic language, with Gaelic being established in Scotland once the Scots came over from Ireland).

But since Boudicca's kingdom as seen in her leader screen would appear to draw more from the Scottish glens than the frankly horizontiginous fens of her native East Anglia, I wouldn't be surprised if she spoke Irish or Scots Gaelic.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who has noticed that Boudicca's Celts seem to be distinctly Scottish-flavoured. As much as I like Scotland and Scottish culture, it's not something I'm particularly happy about. I'd be more than happy for them to have a Scottish-flavoured Celtic Civ but if that's what they want, Boudicca is not the right choice.

OK, I understand that creating a Pan-Celtic Civ is always going to be an anachronism as there was no united Celtic 'nation' in the way we like to think of Civs being, but it really does seem that, the choice of Boudicca aside, every other element of the representation of the Celts in the game is going to be Scottish. Given that, as stated, Boudicca would have spoken a Brythonic rather than a Goidelic language, Welsh would be a much better choice than Scottish Gaelic. There are more Welsh speakers than Scottish Gaelic speakers around anyway.

Having Boudicca speak Scottish or Irish Gaelic would be as unthinkable as having Ramesses speaking Arabic... oh wait a second...

 

[Louis XXIV]

Technically, the Picts were not Scots, so that's not Scottish. Second, the Celts also have decidedly non-Scottish cities like Cardiff and Dublin. Finally, I suspect that part of their traits will involve druidism (likely the UA, which grants faith related to forests), which is not typically associated with predominantly with the Scots. While her background seems more Scottish, it also seems continental (it looks like a Dun in the background).

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I actually think, it would mend fences if they swapped Edinburgh with Cardiff, so Cardiff (which I believe is Welsh) would then become Celtic Capital. I believe Cardiff is 3rd or 4th on the list.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Technically, the Picts were not Scots, so that's not Scottish.

They weren't Scottish in the Gaelic sense, but they were most dominant in the region we now think of as Scotland. They're certainly more identifiable with Scotland than any of the other Celtic nations.

Second, the Celts also have decidedly non-Scottish cities like Cardiff and Dublin.

This is true, but having Edinburgh as the capital firmly places the emphasis on Scotland and Scottish culture.

Finally, I suspect that part of their traits will involve druidism (likely the UA, which grants faith related to forests), which is not typically associated with predominantly with the Scots. While her background seems more Scottish, it also seems continental (it looks like a Dun in the background).

I can only hope you're right...

 

[Louis XXIV]

Let's wait and see.

 

[Uberfrog]

While her background seems more Scottish, it also seems continental (it looks like a Dun in the background).

Just as a note of clarification: I don't think it's true to suggest that a dun would be specific to continental Celts. The word was used even by insular Celts, as exemplified by the number of Scottish towns and cities (Dundee, Dunfermline,...) whose names derive from it, not to mention latinisations like Camulodunum.

I personally hadn't heard them called duns until Civ IV, but forts and hill-forts of the kind are common all over Celtic Europe, including the British Isles. There are a good number a stone's throw from where I live.

Obviously, we don't have the full city list or even the second unique component, but so far it does seem like Firaxis have taken a more insular amalgamation of cultures to represent the Celts. Which is fair enough, in my view. As you say, even if Boudicca was to speak Gaelic, it'd be a damn sight closer than Ramesses and his Arabic.

 

[fuzzatron717]

I just thought of a civ for the 9th slot bulgaria cause the bulgarian empire always rivaled byzantium. before the kiev rus. and they should add troy as a city state militaristic add troy.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Technically, Boudicca would have spoken a Brythonic rather than Gaelic language, and Welsh would be the most widely spoken modern example of those. (Interestingly, Pictish may well also be an example of Brythonic Celtic language, with Gaelic being established in Scotland once the Scots came over from Ireland).

But since Boudicca's kingdom as seen in her leader screen would appear to draw more from the Scottish glens than the frankly horizontiginous fens of her native East Anglia, I wouldn't be surprised if she spoke Irish or Scots Gaelic.

It seems increasingly unlikely that Celtic in the islands had divided until the post-Roman period. Meaning, essentially, that Boudica spoke the same language as Irish or Scottish Celts. In fact, as Welsh is highly innovative (transformed through intense contact with Latin 100 to 400), Scottish Gaelic may be closer to the language Boudica spoke than Welsh.

Just as a note of clarification: I don't think it's true to suggest that a dun would be specific to continental Celts. The word was used even by insular Celts, as exemplified by the number of Scottish towns and cities (Dundee, Dunfermline,...) whose names derive from it, not to mention latinisations like Camulodunum.

I personally hadn't heard them called duns until Civ IV, but forts and hill-forts of the kind are common all over Celtic Europe, including the British Isles. There are a good number a stone's throw from where I live.

Obviously, we don't have the full city list or even the second unique component, but so far it does seem like Firaxis have taken a more insular amalgamation of cultures to represent the Celts. Which is fair enough, in my view. As you say, even if Boudicca was to speak Gaelic, it'd be a damn sight closer than Ramesses and his Arabic.

Yes, dun just means a kind of fortress. The name is most common in Scotland today. Edinburgh is a dun name too, though not in English.

Camulodunum is probably pretty close to the Celtic form. Celtic had grammatical endings similar to those in Latin (like -um here, representing a probable Celtic -om), which were lost in the Roman period/early middle ages.

Technically, the Picts were not Scots, so that's not Scottish. Second, the Celts also have decidedly non-Scottish cities like Cardiff and Dublin. Finally, I suspect that part of their traits will involve druidism (likely the UA, which grants faith related to forests), which is not typically associated with predominantly with the Scots. While her background seems more Scottish, it also seems continental (it looks like a Dun in the background).

'Picts' is really just a name used for 'Scots' before 900. They never called themselves Picts or Scots of course, but Albanaich or some variant meaning, etymologically, "Britons".

Dublin makes no sense as a Celtic capital, as it is a Norse foundation important as the centre of the English lordship of Ireland (ancestor of modern Irish republic). Tara (Temair) makes better sense for an Irish place. Sseems to have functioned as a kind of Celtic delphi in the Roman era ... lots of Romano-British findings there, left by British pilgrims. Emain Macha is another, centre of the Ulster cycle legends, seems to be the great centre known to Ptolemy as Isamnion (usually identified with Navan Fort, might also be at Downpatrick). Hill of Allen (Cnoc Almaine) another great centre.

If the devs need help with a Celtic list, PM me. If I'm given some guidelines, I could easily do one that be historically good and what is looked for with too much dissonance.

 

[awesome]

This is true, but having Edinburgh as the capital firmly places the emphasis on Scotland and Scottish culture.

so civ4 celts had an emphasis on france, then? gallic leader, gallic unit, capital in french gaul?

 

[PhilBowles]

This is true, but having Edinburgh as the capital firmly places the emphasis on Scotland and Scottish culture.

They presumably have to have a capital, and it's going to be a settlement that's located in one or other Celtic or former Celtic country, so surely this would be true however they worked it?

I agree it would make most sense for the Iceni capital to be the Celtic capital, as they did with matching a Hawaiian leader to a Hawaiian capital for Polynesia.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I thought Boudicca came from Welsh areas and not Scottish :/

 

[fuzzatron717]

Does anyone else consider Bulgaria here the 2nd Bulgarian empire which nearly destroyed the Byzantine Empire. Add Troy as city state militaristic Add Troy

 

[Gucumatz]

Does anyone else consider Bulgaria here the 2nd Bulgarian empire which nearly destroyed the Byzantine Empire. Add Troy as city state militaristic Add Troy

Well to be frank no. In Eastern Europe if we were to have a civ at all it would be Poland/Hungary due to more popularity and awareness.

And Troy is in the Ancient World Scenario already. It would be an ok choice for a city state but ultimately there are more cities/city states out there that could/should be better choices.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I thought Boudicca came from Welsh areas and not Scottish :/

She came from neither. Eastern England, near Colchester.

Land of the Iceni

However, the people in that area obviously have been disrupted by both Anglo-Saxon and Danish migrations since then so it's not like you can really draw from that area for inspiration.

 

[fuzzatron717]

Well to be frank no. In Eastern Europe if we were to have a civ at all it would be Poland/Hungary due to more popularity and awareness.

And Troy is in the Ancient World Scenario already. It would be an ok choice for a city state but ultimately there are more cities/city states out there that could/should be better choices.

well let's have everyone else's opinion on what they think so everyone give your opinion on what you think on this matter. thank you.

 

[King William I]

IMO There are only four qualifications for civilizationdom.

1: having a complex civilization (Maya)

2: Being a factor in a key event Huns and (hopefully Zulu)

3: Being an important empire

4: Being romanticized

With that I say The Khmer, Ethiopia, and Sumer

 

[awesome]

i'd prefer bulgaria over poland and hungary, but i don't think any of them will be added any time soon (i'd also probably prefer sealand over poland and hungary, but we don't need to start that again). i don't expect to see khmer in this game, either. ethiopia's one of my guesses because of religion and sumer and zulu are definitely possibilities. sumer and babylon are probably another example of someplace where close borders and overlap are acceptable, but i'd probably still be careful about that.

 

[chazzycat]

I think Bulgaria has a decent, but not great shot. They have the history, they are just lacking somewhat in the awareness/pop culture front.

 

[GenjiKhan]

IMO There are only four qualifications for civilizationdom.

1: having a complex civilization (Maya)

2: Being a factor in a key event Huns and (hopefully Zulu)

3: Being an important empire

4: Being romanticized

With that I say The Khmer, Ethiopia, and Sumer

Well,the problem with Khmer is the proximity with Siam,which is the similar reason why Mali won't come into G&K expansion . For Sumer,I think they had better chances to return when they released "Wonders of Ancient world" DLC,which didn't happen .
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I guess the devs' planning about this expansion was to reveal the "veteran civilizations(that had been in civ series before)" first,then reveal civilizations that have their first time in Civ series later . The main reason to sustain this is the fact that the first 5 civs were already veterans and one of the last 4 remaining civs which had been spoiled unintentionally(huns) is a new Civilization .