1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[Guide] Freedom's Science Victory

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Acken, Sep 27, 2014.

  1. BruinBound

    BruinBound Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    161
    Oh man, they are definitely worth it. I tried to give the "No RAs" a shot on my last Let's Play with the Celts. The extra gold for infrastructure/ city states by not using it on RA's can definitely help your empire, but there is a clear slow-down and the net effect had to have been negative.

    Now my question would be which side of the rationalism tree to go down after Secularism? It would be nice if there was a clear rule of thumb, but probably go down the left side if you have a decent amount of quality RAs being signed and you think you'll maintain them in the future? Otherwise go down the right side for more of a core science boost and more GS?
     
  2. Acken

    Acken Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    5,637
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    QC, Canada
    I'm 90% sure the right side is almost always better. The university boost is approx 7% to 12% of a total science boost and if you have trading post its even better. Also more GS which are critical for a fast win. The RA boost would only boost a handful of RAs at best. I cant see it compete.
     
  3. Juan Sebastied

    Juan Sebastied Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    39
    "Classic science game"

    Hi Acken, i read this guide. It'is very clear. And watching your video i understand some basilar dinamic that make me win by science victory at turn 290 (with Babilonia until now) while last week i win at turn 400. good.


    All the thing's that you write in the guide are really clear but i think that the main thing that make the difference and make you fly with the science is the polpulation!

    There is only a thing that i cannot understand. And i think is the only real important for a normal player to make the difference. How you can have usually at the turn 160 over 35 of population in the capital! This i can't understand. I (think) i work all the food tiles and i have 22 population at the turn 160. I use 2 carovan in the capital for 8 food and play all the tiles for food...i can't understand.
    All the thing's that you write in the guide are really clear but i think that the main thing that make the difference and make you fly with the science is the polpulation!
     
  4. Juan Sebastied

    Juan Sebastied Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    39

    Hi Acken, you say: "Classic science game".

    I read this guide. It'is very clear. And watching your video i understand some basilar dinamic that make me win by science victory at turn 290 (with Babilonia until now) while last week i win at turn 400. good.


    All the thing's that you write in the guide are really clear but i think that the main thing that make the difference and make you fly with the science is the polpulation!

    There is only a thing that i cannot understand. And i think is the only real important for a normal player to make the difference. How you can have usually at the turn 160 over 35 of population in the capital! This i can't understand. I (think) i work all the food tiles and i have 22 population at the turn 160. I use 2 carovan in the capital for 8 food and play all the tiles for food...i can't understand.
    All the thing's that you write in the guide are really clear but i think that the main thing that make the difference and make you fly with the science is the polpulation!
     
  5. Juan Sebastied

    Juan Sebastied Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    39
    Hi Acken, you say: "Classic science game".

    I read this guide. It'is very clear. And watching your video i understand some basilar dinamic that make me win by science victory at turn 290 (with Babilonia until now) while last week i win at turn 400. good.


    All the thing's that you write in the guide are really clear but i think that the main thing that make the difference and make you fly with the science is the polpulation!

    There is only a thing that i cannot understand. And i think is the only real important for a normal player to make the difference. How you can have usually at the turn 160 over 35 of population in the capital! This i can't understand. I (think) i work all the food tiles and i have 22 population at the turn 160. I use 2 carovan in the capital for 8 food and play all the tiles for food...i can't understand.
     
  6. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    4 Hexes from FoY
    Some tips:
    Settle your cities on the coast so they can be served with cargo-ships instead of caravans, but don't sacrifice excellent inland spots for mediocre coastal sites.
    Settle near/next to rivers, in which every riverside tile is improved into a farm. When Civil Service is researched these farms get +1 food.
    Complete Tradition asap. You get a free aqueduct in your first 4 cities without the need to research Engineering.
    Perpetual WLTK day in your capital. Very hard to do as it's probably down to a bit of luck, but it should be a goal in every game you play. If an AI civ has the lux you are looking for you can buy it foir one turn, then DOW them. This is best if the civ in question isn't your neighbor, and of course don't have a DOF with them. Another route is to ally a CS that has your lux. Regardless of the route you only need it for 1 turn and the WLTK day stays for 20 turns even if you loose it.
    Temple of Artemis. This has a pre-eat modifier to growth meaning that %10 is added to every cities food output.
    Ally/befriend maritime CS. The bonus they give is added to yourt citie(s) base tile(s) so is multiplied with the ToA.
     
  7. Juan Sebastied

    Juan Sebastied Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    39
    Ok, yes, the acqueduct without engineering, the cargo ship ok.
    But i see some play in that someone (Acken is one of them) have much more polulation than my case without a city on the cost!

    Aniway i don't understand this passage sorry (that could be very important): "Perpetual WLTK day in your capital. Very hard to do as it's probably down to a bit of luck, but it should be a goal in every game you play. If an AI civ has the lux you are looking for you can buy it foir one turn, then DOW them. This is best if the civ in question isn't your neighbor, and of course don't have a DOF with them. Another route is to ally a CS that has your lux. Regardless of the route you only need it for 1 turn and the WLTK day stays for 20 turns even if you loose it".
    Can you try to explain me again? In particular i ignore what is WLTK (maybe the day of the king?) but all in general.
    Maybe could be the passage that i miss to gain the missing competitivity. Another my mistake is that maybe sometimes i have prefer for some turns some hammers insthead of the food.
    But the point is: turn 160 (for example) my population 22 and population of the guys that wins in 200 turns is 33/35 population.
     
  8. Juan Sebastied

    Juan Sebastied Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    39
     
  9. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    4 Hexes from FoY
    Acken and the other Deity players are top players who every turn will check each city to see if they can squeeze a turn of growth/production. Also they spend(it seems anyway) a lot of time deciding what tiles to improve next, even stopping a worker mid stream to improve another. Although you should try to emulate their results don't be too disheartened when you don't.

    WLTK day=we love the king day which gives a +%25 increase to growth. This a post-eat modifier meaning it is applied to excess food.
    Edit: I see you already know this :p

    You want a balance between production and growth, except perhaps when building the National College(or an important wonder). You may want to try the Huns out as if you settle near cattle/sheep/horses you wont need to worry about growth and production once these tiles are improved.

    The trick is to know what tiles improve into what and if these tiles are buffed with a stable/stone works/petra etc. Another trick is when to improve them. For me the improve order is resources(for selling) then riverside farms. Another important building is the granary as it gives +1 food to bananas/wheat/deer, build this very early if you have multiples of these features.
     
  10. Juan Sebastied

    Juan Sebastied Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    39
    Thank you. I'll try to make treasure of this too. The acken video is very very useful but the combination of them and my english knowledge give a not so fantastic results!:)
    I ask you this..so, for a top player, the choice of what kind of victory conduct is not linked to the terrain condiction as would be for a normal player? i want to say that Acken or others can take the Mongolian, on a map with much (not so much:) hills, and reach a science victory at the turn 260? I'm having this idea whatching his fantastic videos..
     
  11. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,497
    Riverside farms need to be built before Civil Service but are not necessarily a top priority. I often build 1-2 mines on hills ASAP to speed up Settlers (you don't need food at all while building them). After Luxes i almost always improve pastures before farms as they tend to give a mix of :c5food: and :c5production: as do camps (the non-luxuries ones). If i'm lucky to find Bronze Working in a ruin, grassland iron is given a high priority as is stone if i have Masonry, i like those 2:c5food:/2:c5production: tiles early.

    Farming riverside hills also allows some nice 2:c5food:/2:c5production: after Civil Service and i find this better than 3:c5production: Sometimes i build mine on those early and then put farms when i'm about to get CS, sometimes i put mines back later when i'm about to get Chemistry and :c5citizen: is good. When you have several options for tile improvement, it should not be considered fixed forever.

    Also i rarely put plantations on Bananas as 4:c5food:2:c5science: with Granary and universities is great.

    I'm not the best player but i get better results now that i don't focus on growth alone early.

    DoW is Declaration of War : You sell tons of stuff for that lux you want and then DoW to get your stuff back once WLTK day has triggered (it won't stop if you loose the luxury). Can be considered an exploit, worse than worker stealing for me.
    DoF is Declaration of Friendship : you need it for Research Agreements (RAs)
     
  12. Juan Sebastied

    Juan Sebastied Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    39
    Thank u very much!:) Instead i understand by me that ASAP is as soon as possible!:cool::) very nice, great, the english abbreviation....in italian they are more more rare!:)
    I understood the dinamic to DoW, what a trick!:)
    But what do you (you singular and not) think about to steal workers to city state. By the moment i see that is easy to do i steal 2 or 3 from the city state so i don't have to produce one of them! But....is that really convenient in the middle period? because, doing that way, i lost the friendness of the CS and if it's merchant i lost the +3 or + 7 or +11 of happiness too that she can give me. And i have some problem of happiness with this super tall playng (and super good of course)..
    Wathcing this super player playng style i slightly modified the concepts of tall and wide!:):)
     
  13. Acken

    Acken Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    5,637
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    QC, Canada
    How good your capital is is map dependent, if you want to compare do it on the same map. Key factors for top growth:
    -Working food as a priority
    -Food wonders (HG and Petra)
    -Getting food bonuses (WLTKD, Swords into plowshares, Temple o Artemis, Maritime CS)
    -Finishing tradition early (for faster aqueducts)
    -Never hitting unhappiness
    -Feeding the capital with caravans/cargos
     
  14. Juan Sebastied

    Juan Sebastied Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    39
    Thank u Acken.
    I would compare but i cannot be able to:) charge the map i don't know how to do. But aniway this was'nt the main problem.
    Now i know the theory good, i think.

    Just 3 thing: what is "WLTKD" and "Swords into plowshares" i don't understang.
    2: u think is better to do NC on turn 60 or to make 2 other cityes?
    3: i have some problem of happiness (but i make a sperimental match on prince so i think the IA has not many luxuries available to exchange i think)

    Ps: i have a sigh of relief knowing that you use the HG and Petra....cause i think you don't and i think "hey this guy make that and not use the HG and Petra was really humiliating":lol::)
    Ps2: i know that of course there is all in your video and I would pay:) (but 2 or 3 gold x turn) but to have it in italian 'cause the language is a little a problem for me. Despite of this is goog for me the only video too. But it's more easy too to write here
     
  15. Acken

    Acken Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    5,637
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    QC, Canada
    Well I don't get HG and Petra everygame. I just listed as a potential growth booster.

    WLTKD is "We Love The King Day" and Swords is a religious belief giving food.

    Best opener is 3 or 4 city NC. I prefer 3 but sometimes 4 seems appropriate (rushable settler, ton of production etc).
     
  16. Juan Sebastied

    Juan Sebastied Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    39
    Ok, yeah i know the Sword believe (maybe 15% of growth) and i use often it. And i see that you don't ever nake HG.
    I have a doubt if it is praticable (with equal standard) a wide science winning. I think u made some material and i will read it!
     
  17. Juan Sebastied

    Juan Sebastied Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    39
    I don't know if there is already a post talk about wide science victory, i don't have found it.
    I would ask this, so i ask here 'cause aniway i understood that freedom should'nt go necessarily togheter with a tall/few city game!

    So i ask: tall or wide? wich strategy give the better results? Better in absolute tall or they both could give excellent results, maybe finding an affine map for each of them
     
  18. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    4 Hexes from FoY
    I'll assume you want the fastest possible SV. That usually means wide, but on DCL#20-Spain Acken proved you can do a sub 200SV with 4 cities. On ICL-Egypt you might want 5. On DCL#6-Inca you can have 5 observatory cities. imo it is map dependent , but usually you want to go wide for a fast SV.
     
  19. Juan Sebastied

    Juan Sebastied Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    39
    Thank you! Yes i was assuming fastest possible.
    Thank you for the signalation of the DCL!
    Aniway a 5 city (for science faster victory), being a 5 city game needs Liberty politics?
     
  20. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,579
    Location:
    Beograd
    No it doesn't, 5 cities is still filed under 'tradition' to be honest, but there's a catch, I think it's far easier to manage 4 cities, if you include land, build queues, and happiness, I often struggle to keep happy even with 4 cities, every luxury and Circus Maximus
     

Share This Page