Guilds/Corporations

[WhimpyCiv]

Hi.

This mod/modmod (RoM/AND) has a LOT of guilds/corporations. Does this come from an included mod, and if so which one? Is there somewhere I can go to get information on these in something like a table format or something, or should I just start a new thread in the RoM/AND area?

I spent a bit of time compiling information on the various guilds from the sevopedia, but there was some information missing even there. For instance, looking at the bonuses from each guild, I found that the best crafts guild for my civ was the masons guild. However, I wasn't able to figure out why I couldn't build it. Then I popped a GP engineer and saw that you needed to have six high walls to found the masons guild. All the sevopedia says is that you have to have a crafts guild hall, it doesn't mention the six high walls requirement. Is there some reference that would have told me that?

(Ditto for corporations, since I'm almost to that time period in my current game!)

If there is no readily available reference for this, I'd be more than willing to post what I've puzzled out so far (mainly on the guilds).

Thanks!

 

[NBAfan]

They are from Vincentz's VIP modmod.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

If there is no readily available reference for this, I'd be more than willing to post what I've puzzled out so far (mainly on the guilds).

Thanks!

That could be very useful, especially if it could be then inserted into Sevopedia. I'm playing with AND 1.72 and there wasn't any information on how guilds work. Don't know if it's been updated in 1.73 but in case it hasn't, some more description on how guilds work will be more than useful.

 

[Afforess]

Feel free to compile a guide, or just a list of things that would help make the guilds and corporations more intuitive, and what extra info should be exposed to the player.

 

[WhimpyCiv]

OK, attached is the file with the basic info I've been able to gather. I've given Excel 2003 and plain text format (the latter doesn't look great).

In order to build the individual guilds, it looks like you have to have the 'master' guild hall. In other words, since the Clerks Guild is of the Servants Guild type, you have to have already built the Servants Guild Hall before building Clerks. I'm pretty sure you have to have the Guilds civic active also!

Tried to paste it in here, but it just doesn't come out too well. Anyhow, the basic idea is that there are three "major" types of guilds: Servants Guilds (Apothecaries, Artists, Clerks, Drapers, and Equestrian), Victuallers Guilds (Bakers, Butchers, Fishmongers, Grocers, and Mercers) and Crafts Guilds (Blacksmiths, Carpenters, Glassblowers, Goldsmiths, and Masons). All of the guilds of the same major type compete with each other and cannot exist in the same city.

The Servants Guilds consume no resources and just give flat benefits to each city. The exception is the Drapers Guild which gives a flat +4 culture +1 per each sheep, dye, cotton, silk or fur in the city. The Victuallers Guilds consume food resources, as you might guess from their names; for example, the Butchers Guild gives +1 food per cow, pig, deer, or sheep available to the city. The Crafts guilds consume production resources; for example, the Masons Guild gives +4 production per stone resource available to the city. It also produces one marble resource for free. The exception to this is the Carpenters Guild, which does not consume any resources, and gives a flat +1 happy face, +1 gold, and +2 hammers per city it is in.

The only requirements I have been able to find (beyond building the "major" guild hall first) are on a few of the Crafts Guilds. Those are noted on the spreadsheet. If anyone knows of any others, please let me know. I didn't design this, I don't know if I'm right, but this is how it seems to be working so far so please correct me! (The author of this part of the mod would be a welcome contributor!)

The corporations look fantastic ... and fantastically confusing as well! I've found some very interesting ones in the past and look to find more in the future!

 

[vincentz]

There ya go mate

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326966

Its a bit outdated, but then again the Guilds in AND is too.
If you want the newest version, its in my Modmods. (See my sig.)

 

[Afforess]

No Offense Vincentz.. Your version is newer, but not necessarily the same. The guilds in AND avoid the use of resources, and can give flat commerce bonuses, where yours can not. Also, your guilds never obsolete... that and the AI are better at using guilds in AND.

What are the real differences between the versions? Did you just alter the guild buildings?

 

[vincentz]

No afforense, but the ai is actually better in the "real" guilds, plus it adds new guild halls and have a maximum of 1 guild per city and 3 guilds per civ. (last game with AND guilds there was 1 civ taking 12 of the guilds) Regarding the resource use, then it is narrowed down to 1 and is somehow more compatible with AND than vanilla (I have no idea why, but it doesnt have the missing revolution screen as it have in vanilla rom). It also fixes some graphical problems that were in the guilds (i think from 2.6 or 2.7) that was transformed to AND.
And while they doesnt obsolete, it will be impossible to spread later as the guildmasters are upgraded to freight and impossible to found later as the crafts/servs/victuallers guild halls obsolete. Plus they are overwritten by any corporation that uses same resources.
Especially the fact that 1 civ can take all of them nags me alot, so to claim the AI is better is..... not entirely true.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have to agree with Vincentz on this - his latest guilds are better than those in AND. Mostly because of the AI and one civ not hogging all the guilds. Although the AND guilds do have some things going for them also.

 

[vincentz]

I have to agree with Vincentz on this - his latest guilds are better than those in AND. Mostly because of the AI and one civ not hogging all the guilds. Although the AND guilds do have some things going for them also.

When I get time and energy, I'll post a ANDVIP version of the guilds with the best of the two worlds.

 

[WhimpyCiv]

I also have no intention to offend anyone, but my main focus is on the guild system as presently structured in AND. Thank you for the pointer to the other thread, btw. So with that in mind, am I to understand that guilds in AND are worldwide (e.g., if I build the Bakers Guild then nobody else can), like corporations? And that the AI seems to want to hog the guilds, even if it doesn't necessarily benefit from it?

Are the new corporations also from the VIP mod? If so (or even if not) is there a thread or listing that presents a little info on them? (E.g., which ones compete with each other, etc.)

I've also updated my spreadsheet with a few 'prerequisite' techs for certain guilds, listed in the new 'enabled' column. It's not going to fit nicely into the text version, but when I get a chance (i.e., am sober and able to resist my ANDicction long enough) then I'll structure it properly to do so, so that people without Excel 2003 can view it.

 

[Afforess]

No afforense, but the ai is actually better in the "real" guilds, plus it adds new guild halls and have a maximum of 1 guild per city and 3 guilds per civ. (last game with AND guilds there was 1 civ taking 12 of the guilds) Regarding the resource use, then it is narrowed down to 1 and is somehow more compatible with AND than vanilla (I have no idea why, but it doesnt have the missing revolution screen as it have in vanilla rom). It also fixes some graphical problems that were in the guilds (i think from 2.6 or 2.7) that was transformed to AND.
And while they doesnt obsolete, it will be impossible to spread later as the guildmasters are upgraded to freight and impossible to found later as the crafts/servs/victuallers guild halls obsolete. Plus they are overwritten by any corporation that uses same resources.
Especially the fact that 1 civ can take all of them nags me alot, so to claim the AI is better is..... not entirely true.

I'm not trying to offend anyone. My core question here is: What's the difference?

Mostly because of the AI and one civ not hogging all the guilds.

How is that a bad thing? If the AI hog the guilds, aren't the AI working as intended?

I also have no intention to offend anyone, but my main focus is on the guild system as presently structured in AND. Thank you for the pointer to the other thread, btw. So with that in mind, am I to understand that guilds in AND are worldwide (e.g., if I build the Bakers Guild then nobody else can), like corporations? And that the AI seems to want to hog the guilds, even if it doesn't necessarily benefit from it?

Are the new corporations also from the VIP mod? If so (or even if not) is there a thread or listing that presents a little info on them? (E.g., which ones compete with each other, etc.)

I've also updated my spreadsheet with a few 'prerequisite' techs for certain guilds, listed in the new 'enabled' column. It's not going to fit nicely into the text version, but when I get a chance (i.e., am sober and able to resist my ANDicction long enough) then I'll structure it properly to do so, so that people without Excel 2003 can view it.

Thanks! That is what I was looking for.

 

[vincentz]

1. Are the new corporations also from the VIP mod?
2. If so (or even if not) is there a thread or listing that presents a little info on them?

1. No. The corporations in AND is a combilation of Aaranda's and my corporations. I haven't really updated them since RoM 2.6 except some graphical glitches and Aaranda stopped modding around that time too.
However while my corporations are a part of VIP, the ones in AND are almost simular just with Aaranda's as well.
2. Link to my corps http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326643
Only change is Adventure Tours got renamed to Mile High Tours

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

IAre the new corporations also from the VIP mod? If so (or even if not) is there a thread or listing that presents a little info on them? (E.g., which ones compete with each other, etc.)

Some of the corporations were updated from AAranda's by CivTbone see thread.

 

[vincentz]

Some of the corporations were updated from AAranda's by CivTbone see thread.

Heheh, Wall Mart and Adventure Tours are actually mine, not Aaranda's, but when I redid the graphics I decided that Adventure Tours' name and graphics needed a change : Mile High Tours

So if Adventure Tours and Mile High Tours are both in AND there might be a dublicate corporation there.

I wanted to create more, and had a couple of ideas, but since there is no more free resource spots in RoM, a lot of the ideas was abandonded, and the rest.... well, making new corporations is a LOT of work.

edit : And bulls eye is not mine. I did do a corp call AIM (Armed Industry Manufacturers) introducing a couple of new units and a different approach to the corporations (it only consumed manufactured resources), but I abanonded it cause of problems with updating to the WOC format.

 

[Alsark]

If there is no readily available reference for this, I'd be more than willing to post what I've puzzled out so far (mainly on the guilds).

It's not under the corporation itself under the Corporations entry in the Civiliopedia. Instead, it's under world wonders. For example, if you go to the Blacksmiths Master Guild it will tell you that you need four forges, the Crafts Guild Hall, and a Great Engineer.

Warning: If you have modular loading turned on via your Rise of Mankind.ini file, both corporations and guilds will be totally out of order. For example, it may say that the Master Blacksmith helps spread the Baker's Guild.

 

[WhimpyCiv]

It's not under the corporation itself under the Corporations entry in the Civiliopedia. Instead, it's under world wonders. For example, if you go to the Blacksmiths Master Guild it will tell you that you need four forges, the Crafts Guild Hall, and a Great Engineer.

Ah, ok. I never would've thought to look there.

Warning: If you have modular loading turned on via your Rise of Mankind.ini file, both corporations and guilds will be totally out of order. For example, it may say that the Master Blacksmith helps spread the Baker's Guild.

I don't even know what "modular loading" *is* yet. Thanks for the pointer!

 

[Alsark]

I don't even know what "modular loading" *is* yet. Thanks for the pointer!

It's a different way for the game to load all of the files. It's off by default. I enabled it because, for some reason, my brother's game wasn't working right with it turned off. In order to play with one another, we both had to have it on or off. I wouldn't recommend enabling it, seeing as how it causes problems with corporations/guilds, evidently.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It's a different way for the game to load all of the files. It's off by default. I enabled it because, for some reason, my brother's game wasn't working right with it turned off. In order to play with one another, we both had to have it on or off. I wouldn't recommend enabling it, seeing as how it causes problems with corporations/guilds, evidently.

With the WoC modular system you should have modular loading off or it will cause errors. Modular loading is the BtS system that loads your modules ie stuff in your Modules folder. The WoC modular system does the same thing but has some features which make programming easier, it also allows you to choose the order that the folders are loaded (modular loading just does them alphabetically). There is more to it naturally

 

[WhimpyCiv]

OK, here are the updated files, both Excel format (7-zipped) and text. Shows what tech is required to enable certain guilds, what tech makes them obsolete, what buildings you have to have, and what benefits they provide.

NOTE that this information is subject to error. Use at your own risk. Also, this reflects only what is currently in 'vanilla' ROM-AND. It does not have any information on Vincentz's latest update to his mod. This is for the guilds only. No info on corporations.

Any questions, corrections, or additions, let me know please!