Gustavus Adolphus is a sociopath

[Dogmouth]

I've heard the legends, but this is insane. In an ongoing game as Pacachuti (phenominal start, btw), Sweden DOWs Yerevan in around 2500 bc. He pulls off the win and puppets the city. Shortly after that stunt, he DOWs Singapore. Again, he wins and puppets the city. A few turns later, he DOWs me (it's still some time early bc). I'm not exactly the belle of the ball (3 civs coveted my lands the turn after I met them), but Dido, Washington, Ramses, and Theodora all decide to go after Sweden the next turn. He's basically a hunted war criminal before anyone has even invented the wheel. Needless to say, Gustavus goes down hard and never wakes up.

Does anyone else find his behavior utterly bizarre? With his UA, you'd think that he wouldn't murder ever city state in his line of sight. The guy makes Ghengis Khan and Attila look like pansies.

Settings: Emporer, standard, epic, fractal.

 

[smallfish]

Somewhat...

on a continent shared by me the Greeks, Oda, Washington, Napoleon and Gustavus himself, both Oda and Washington decided to take down the Swedish Menace because he had spammed more cities than they did.

It took a while, but American Minutemen did finally storm the holdout city of Helsinki.

 

[Furycrab]

OK because this is going to come as a surprise... Sweden is best played as a CS whoring warmonger much like Alexander.

Both his UU are on two separate melee paths.

You use the bonus % to get your regular GPS up a little faster (you don't gift those) and you use extra great generals and admirals to buy CS that are either useful or in tactical locations. Spice in some patronage and you are golden.

If you "try" to play him as a turtle in a corner trying to make friends, it will just end up feeling a whole lot weaker or other Civs do it better and on average you won't really make many more friends than the warmongers because the Civs will generally split into factions anyways.

As a result, Swedens AI is a little closer to Alexanders AI than Ghandi. If you look at it as such, you'll notice that they make similar decisions Alexander just being dialed up a little higher on the aggression.

 

[Dogmouth]

That doesn't come as a surprise at all, Furycrab. What surprises me is that Gustavus seemed to be so bloodthirsty with respect to city states (that's not exactly "CS whoremongering"). He crushed every CS within a 30 tile radius of his capital before settling a second city. It would make more sense if he continued to be aggressive towards players but mild-mannered towards CSs.

 

[smallfish]

That doesn't come as a surprise at all, Furycrab. What surprises me is that Gustavus seemed to be so bloodthirsty with respect to city states (that's not exactly "CS whoremongering"). He crushed every CS within a 30 tile radius of his capital before settling a second city. It would make more sense if he continued to be aggressive towards players but mild-mannered towards CSs.

Did he have room to expand?

Were all victory conditions except Domination switched off?

 

[steveg700]

Had a game with him where he had plenty of nice places to expand (huge earth), but he DoW'ed very early in the game and was producing warriors and archers by the truckload. So yes, totally over-the-top early-rusher.

I don't mind AI civ's being sociopaths, but I'd like a little variety. How about SOME warmongers early rush, while SOME do research, produce military wonders, construct military buildings, and in general don't make a move until they have a potent war machine?

No? Too crazy?

 

[Dogmouth]

Yes, he has room to expand. No, all victory conditions were active. I noticed that he became an ally of Genoa before he died. I guess it's conceivable that Genoa wanted both Yerevan and Singapore dead, causing Gustavus to go nuts in order to win Genoa's favor.

I can try to post a save file tonight if anyone is interested. If nothing else, you should check out the starting location. It's insane, including four floodplain cottons, a desert marble, tons of river space, lots of mountains, and lots of desert hills (Petra+Terrace Farms = awesome). There is also an amazing location for a second city to the north if you don't mind seizing heavily disputed territory. The only downside is that your neighbors are numerous and start the game hating you.

 

[smallfish]

Had a game with him where he had plenty of nice places to expand (huge earth), but he DoW'ed very early in the game and was producing warriors and archers by the truckload. So yes, totally over-the-top early-rusher.

I don't mind AI civ's being sociopaths, but I'd like a little variety. How about SOME warmongers early rush, while SOME do research, produce military wonders, construct military buildings, and in general don't make a move until they have a potent war machine?

No? Too crazy?

George Washington does this, especially when he gets the GW.

 

[Furycrab]

Had a game with him where he had plenty of nice places to expand (huge earth), but he DoW'ed very early in the game and was producing warriors and archers by the truckload. So yes, totally over-the-top early-rusher.

I don't mind AI civ's being sociopaths, but I'd like a little variety. How about SOME warmongers early rush, while SOME do research, produce military wonders, construct military buildings, and in general don't make a move until they have a potent war machine?

No? Too crazy?

My comment was more along the lines of people expecting him to be some pacifist that sits in a corner taking DOFs.

His affinity for Diplomacy is probably a bit lower than say Alexanders and for domination decently high, so it's conceivable that you could roll a game where his aggression is really high and diplomacy a little low and that he will start acting a bit closer to the Mongols.

BTW: Earth map is usually bad for the AI unless you slap in a few extra AIs over what the game recommends .

 

[steveg700]

Yes, he has room to expand. No, all victory conditions were active. I noticed that he became an ally of Genoa before he died. I guess it's conceivable that Genoa wanted both Yerevan and Singapore dead, causing Gustavus to go nuts in order to win Genoa's favor.

Well, CS' no longer ask you to wipe out other CS's, just demand tribute. OTOH, if Genoa wanted him to acquire a resource that the other CS" had, then conquering them would be one way to get it.

 

[Light Cleric]

Yeah, for being a guy with a peaceful/City-State oriented UA, every game I've been in has him murdering the face off everyone and everything he can find, including crushing city-states. It's bizarre.

 

[Dogmouth]

Well, CS' no longer ask you to wipe out other CS's, just demand tribute. OTOH, if Genoa wanted him to acquire a resource that the other CS" had, then conquering them would be one way to get it.

Good point. I'm falling back on my earlier position: he's insane.

 

[thecrush19]

Somewhat...

on a continent shared by me the Greeks, Oda, Washington, Napoleon and Gustavus himself, both Oda and Washington decided to take down the Swedish Menace because he had spammed more cities than they did.

It took a while, but American Minutemen did finally storm the holdout city of Helsinki.

Is it possible to get the download for that game you linked? That one looks like it would be a fun one to play out.

 

[fuzzatron717]

Well I must have a bug or be extremely lucky everytime swedan comes in he is as nice as can be even when I denouced him he asked to renew my DoF. I must have bug.

 

[kk1000]

Dudes, he's Swedish, it's Sweden! It's dark up there all day in winter, tons of vodka, hot blonds wrapped up in tons of winter clothing that never comes off - I'd go on a killing spree too!
Before you call me a chauvinist, all I said was 'blondes', no gender.
Does anyone else think that Attila looks like 'Cowboy Bob'?
And in my last game, Vatican City asked to convert to Islam

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

So far, in three games that included Sweden when I wasn't playing him, he played the Target in every one. Got wiped out by Danes in the Middle Ages in one, by Pacal's Mayans in the Renaissance in another, and in the third lasted all the way to the Industrial Age before being hammered flat by Bismarck, Askia and Genghis (admittedly, not the best set of neighbors - I was surprised to see him last that long, frankly). This was on Pangea, Continents, and Terra maps, but I only saw his start in the first - he built only two cities and got overwhelmed by Denmark's flood of early cities and units.

 

[smallfish]

Is it possible to get the download for that game you linked? That one looks like it would be a fun one to play out.

Try this

Have fun!

 

[PhilBowles]

I'm currently playing a game that turned out to be a duel map with Gustavus as my rival, and he's militarising only slowly (I haven't been focusing on military production, and his army is still slightly smaller than mine), and hasn't made war with anyone. He hasn't shown any particular inclination to make friends with CSes either, though.

In the only other game I've seen him in he seemed peaceful and was wiped out by the combined forces of Bismarck and Ramkhamhaeng.

 

[Captain Fargle]

Yeah, for being a guy with a peaceful/City-State oriented UA, every game I've been in has him murdering the face off everyone and everything he can find, including crushing city-states. It's bizarre.

Dude is one of the most successful military commanders of all time and is known as "The Father of Modern Warfare". Are you really that surprised?

 

[southpw11]

I've heard the legends, but this is insane. In an ongoing game as Pacachuti (phenominal start, btw), Sweden DOWs Yerevan in around 2500 bc. He pulls off the win and puppets the city. Shortly after that stunt, he DOWs Singapore. Again, he wins and puppets the city. A few turns later, he DOWs me (it's still some time early bc). I'm not exactly the belle of the ball (3 civs coveted my lands the turn after I met them), but Dido, Washington, Ramses, and Theodora all decide to go after Sweden the next turn. He's basically a hunted war criminal before anyone has even invented the wheel. Needless to say, Gustavus goes down hard and never wakes up.

Does anyone else find his behavior utterly bizarre? With his UA, you'd think that he wouldn't murder ever city state in his line of sight. The guy makes Ghengis Khan and Attila look like pansies.

Settings: Emporer, standard, epic, fractal.

Totally bizarre.

In my last game on emperor, standard, continents; Sweden and I were best chums. Fought wars together, declaration of friendship, defensive pacts, constant trading, etc. Once it was he and I left on the continent, he DoW's me with no warning at all and breaks our defensive pact to do it. I was very surprised. I put up a good defense and start pushing into his territory, and of course then he wants peace. I did not have enough to take his cities so I agreed. 2 turns later he want to trade like we are best friends again.