gypsy wagons - are they working?

[slowcar]

i am currently playing balseraph and while i love loki the gypsy wagons seem to be nonfunctional. they do subract a point of culture, gold and GP-growth but they don't add anything to my empire, do they?
besides of this there is the annoyance that enemies that have open borders with the civ where you placed your gypsy wagons in destroy them all in a single swipe.

can't they be of the same unitclass as spies? non-visible and non-attackable?
if they'd add a gold, a commerce or at least a point of culture to my empire they would be a lot more valuable - and more in line with their production cost.

 

[thewyrm]

I use them mostly as a way to protect my borders against a nearby city and we are fighting over a resource. In the late game when you can afford to have one city do nothing but build them is when they really get useful.

 

[Niveras]

Gypsy wagons (or more accurately, the gypsy wagon building in an enemy city) are supposed to add 1 gold to your empire. I think it does work, but it is not included in your regular Gold Income for the turn. Instead it gets added directly to your total after gold costs are calculated for the turn.

 

[feydras]

I love the Balseraph and find the gypsy wagons worthless. Try them out frequently trying to find their effectiveness. They cost a lot of production, are killed near instantly when the host nation declares war, and provide no reason to the host to keep them. In multiplayer they would be taken as a hostile act, in single player they are usually wiped out unless the target AI is very passive. So, when they are useful it is only because the AI isn't smart enough to realize it is being exploited.

Solution?
Have them grant +1 happiness when in a foreign city.
Give them a small chance to flee when attacked.

That said, i think the Balseraph are a strong civ as it stands. I'm not sure they need another bonus but their gypsy wagons shouldn't be worthless.

 

[suedenim]

I'm curious (especially as I'm next door to the Balseraph in my current game): does the AI use the gypsy wagons (and the whole "Culture War" strategy in general) at all effectively? It seems to me that they'd be tough for the AI to understand

 

[Bad Player]

Solution?
Have them grant +1 happiness when in a foreign city.
Give them a small chance to flee when attacked.

The problem with that as I see it is that you want your gypsy wagons to exploit the opponent. If they provide +1 happy then they are helping your opponent and exploiting the Balseraphs who spent time creating them! Or if they take more gold to compensate for the +1 happy then the opponent still has the upper hand because they can decide whether the gold loss is worth the +1 happy and then destroy the wagon if it isn't.

I'd suggest invisibility for the wagons so the opponent can't destroy them or see that they are being exploited (but they would notice the gold loss I suppose...)

 

[smusebaer]

Why starting a war. All you need is one spider, one Bear or one Warelephant.

 

[smjjames]

Why starting a war. All you need is one spider, one Bear or one Warelephant.

What does that have anything to do with the gypsy wagons?

Anyway, as far as the gypsy wagons, I'm not really sure how effective they are, or maybe I'm not using them correctly because from what I understand, they are supposed to help you take over the city through culture. But I'm not seeing a huge effect from them. Sure they help when Loki is in the city, but in the later game, they don't seem to have much effect.

I also find them useful as a sort of passive spy, especially if you build them in a city with the tower of eyes so that they get that sentry promotion. Which obviosuly wasn't the origional intention, but hey

 

[PotatoOverdose]

What does that have anything to do with the gypsy wagons?

Anyway, as far as the gypsy wagons, I'm not really sure how effective they are, or maybe I'm not using them correctly because from what I understand, they are supposed to help you take over the city through culture. But I'm not seeing a huge effect from them. Sure they help when Loki is in the city, but in the later game, they don't seem to have much effect.

I also find them useful as a sort of passive spy, especially if you build them in a city with the tower of eyes so that they get that sentry promotion. Which obviosuly wasn't the origional intention, but hey

The animals have a lot to do with gypsy wagons because they are the earliest HN units and therefore can kill them without declaring war.

 

[Blackmantle]

If i remember correctly, once you could build a carnival with them (Version 2.0.16 or earlier?) like Priests build temples.

Perhaps that has just been removed on accident and overlooked / forgotten to be reimplemented. Makes sense lorewise as well. Never understood why it has been cut. That whould make them usefull again.

 

[slowcar]

i'd like to see them given the spy unitclass, unattackable and untraceable for most. not much you can do about them.

 

[Niveras]

I don't know about that. Balance wise it would be useful, since they are so weak and do very little, but it doesn't make sense that a gypsy train would be hard to find, or difficult to kill.

 

[jwin]

I think it makes sense. The police or soldiers gather for a raid on the gypsy wagons and find that they have disapeared in the night and moved to the other side of the city.

Creating a carnival was a very useful trait. I wish it was back.