The_Unforgiven
KoEkWaUs
Bah, I'll even buy an empty box, as long as it says "Sid Meiers Civilization IV" on it...
Half Done Game
- Thread starter Colonel
- Start date
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
Ivan the Kulak said:
I'll take that bet. How much are you willing to lose? Seriously. A month's pay? If the SDK is released before 2 years from the release, you pay me. OK?
It's all about the money, and because majority of people dont care they're being ripped off (idiots), The civ team will rape you of your money when they want. If we stood together, strong and united, we could have something much better and cheaper
Elysium Dreams
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2005
- Messages
- 52
This is the computer game industry we're talking about. If CivIV goes gold when it's 50% done, that's way more than what most companies ship with.
The uneven leader distribution is a little annoying, but Firaxis is in a very unenviable lose-lose situation. I'd be willing to wager the discussion went something like this:
Fans: "RARRRRR! they r putting in <person A> instead of <person B>! omg what moronz!! die die die firaxis!"
Firaxis: "Hey, we've got some spare money left in the development budget. Why don't we stick in a few alternate leaders? That should help alleviate fan complaints about the leader picks."
Fans: "BOOOOO! only 1 leader for some civs???!! rip-off!!!!"
The uneven leader distribution is a little annoying, but Firaxis is in a very unenviable lose-lose situation. I'd be willing to wager the discussion went something like this:
Fans: "RARRRRR! they r putting in <person A> instead of <person B>! omg what moronz!! die die die firaxis!"
Firaxis: "Hey, we've got some spare money left in the development budget. Why don't we stick in a few alternate leaders? That should help alleviate fan complaints about the leader picks."
Fans: "BOOOOO! only 1 leader for some civs???!! rip-off!!!!"
sir_schwick
Archbishop of Towels
I agree with Colonel that there are some issues of concern about Civ 4. A lot of them stems from the past collective experience with Civ 3. Customers were forced to buy features in expensive expansion packs that should have been native from the vanilla release; a competent editor and mutliplayer. Even if it was not technically feasible, those features should have been provided in a patch. Imagine having to pay seperately for multiplayer functionality in 2001? Same complaint with the editor.
As I understand it, Soren inherited Civ 3 in the middle of production without the time or financial budget to do it correctly. Also, he may not make some of the decisions related to how to make money. Considering the functionality of modding communities, expansion packs should not offer only content or features that should already exist.
As I understand it, Soren inherited Civ 3 in the middle of production without the time or financial budget to do it correctly. Also, he may not make some of the decisions related to how to make money. Considering the functionality of modding communities, expansion packs should not offer only content or features that should already exist.
Legionary37
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2005
- Messages
- 169
I have to say I feel having only one leader for certain civs was a bit of a cop out. Are you telling me you can't find more than 1 half deceant leader for each civ? Please.
The number of units also has me concerned. I applaud their making the "rock paper scissors" type of bonuses for the different units, but it's not like there was a gigantic plethora in civ 3 to choose from at any given time.
The number of units also has me concerned. I applaud their making the "rock paper scissors" type of bonuses for the different units, but it's not like there was a gigantic plethora in civ 3 to choose from at any given time.
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
I suspect that it wasn't because of not being able to think of two leaders, but not having enough time to build leaderheads for that many. This is more playable leaders than any civ game to date has provided out of the box.
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
For those of you who feel this will be half done, don't buy it. Sure, Firaxis will be out a few bucks (that's all they get on a copy - no where near the $50 you spend on it), but you'll feel better.
Legionary37
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2005
- Messages
- 169
Oh, I'm certainly buying it, I just hope we don't see a large reduction in the options avaliable. I REALLY want to see there to be some viable strats besides just military expansion.
Furius
Prince
Perhaps they are having trouble finding two leaders for which it is justified to give different traits? After all, all Aztec Emperors could pretty much be classified as militaristic and religious types. Perhaps the same problem reared its head for other leaders?
Well, following the Arabs as in teh previous post, Saladin was famously expansionist, whereas teh Sultan of Baghdad (I forget his name) from the Arabian Nights (yes, it was a real person referred tto in those stories) was more a perfectionist than an expander.
Urederra
Mostly harmless
The_Unforgiven said:
I just put one on sale on ebay.
The_Unforgiven said:
This actually reminded me of a slight mistake Atari made with Sid Meier's Pirates! last year.
Some of the Limited Editions boxes had no CDs in them.
Luckily, the people who bought empty boxes were able to get the actual game when they returned to the store.
Civrules said:This actually reminded me of a slight mistake Atari made with Sid Meier's Pirates! last year.
Some of the Limited Editions boxes had no CDs in them.
Luckily, the people who bought empty boxes were able to get the actual game when they returned to the store.
No wonder Atari went under... I wouldn't call that a "slight" mistake.
Some entrepenuering (sp) lawyer might decide to figure out a way to make a bundle off of that.Chieftess said:No wonder Atari went under... I wouldn't call that a "slight" mistake.
You're right. I shouldn't have said slight. It was quite a big mistake.
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
sir_schwick said:
In regard to the Editor, I was using a competent editor about five or six months before the first expansion came out. The editor was actually GOOD by the last vanilla patch. The "minimap" wasn't in, so the editor continued to get better with the expansions, but it was in there.
In regard to multiplayer, in truth the task was bigger than one game development cycle could manage. MP would have had to be integrated from the start to work correctly. Should it have been in in the vanilla game? Well... Actually, no, because if they had delayed Civ3 for several YEARS while they developed the MP side of it, where would that have left us? If we want games that are richer and deeper, we have to expect the development cycle to take longer, and to pay extra for the "expanded" portion. As long as that expanded portion is delivering more-and-better gameplay, I think it is worth funding the extra work on the game. (No funding and no profit = no more work on the game. It's business, after all.)
It is only because of all the work done on MP in the two expansions that Civ4 MP has much hope of being good. They've learned a bunch of lessons. The fans have learned what kinds of holes in the game logic need to be closed, and the devs could find out that info if they care to. Plus the chance to build MP in to Civ4 from the git-go and not run afoul of all manner of hardcoded precedents they aren't allowed to override...
I thought we got a pretty fair deal out of Civ3. Wasn't perfect, but it was good and getting better. We can't judge Civ4 until we actually play it, but Firaxis deserves credit for things they got right in Civ3 as well as criticism for the things that could have been better.
- Sirian
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
By the way... Are most folks here aware of how far the cost of a PC game would go for pastimes like golf, minigolf, rented tennis courts, country club memberships, rented billiard tables, rented go carts, theater movies, etc? Not all that far, really. Live theater shows cost as much for one pair of tickets as a PC game. Coin-op arcade games used to be the only way to play really good video games, and even those could never approach the depth of a game like Civ.
Games OUGHT to be good, since they are mass marketed like paperback books or music albums, but altogether they are a pretty good value! The fans collectively need to support the industry well enough to keep it thriving. Not pirating games is the main thing -- pay for what you play!
- Sirian
Games OUGHT to be good, since they are mass marketed like paperback books or music albums, but altogether they are a pretty good value! The fans collectively need to support the industry well enough to keep it thriving. Not pirating games is the main thing -- pay for what you play!
- Sirian
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