Handy 21 Regular Pangaea AWD again

My only concern is that pillaging becomes less effective when it is a large pangea world. I would prefer to take out all of spain and hopefuly keep most of it.

When we pillage we hurt 1 civ, but keeping cities increases our power vs all the civs. It is a balance of course

It might even give us a short line of attack - I suspect there are no civs east of Spain. This is my primary reason - I feel we are likely to shorten our front by having more towns (coast will be longer though).

The Jav army might be able to pillage after that - its attack 2 makes it only good vs the spearmen that spain currently has (in terms of attacking).
 
Own is right. We do have a very wide front. We should try and consoldate it if at all possible. Perhaps drive southward from one area of the front in hopes of making contact with a coastline.
 
IBT- Spain captures Pamplona as expected. Education in, Glib is done. :(

Turn 1 - Kill a number of French weaklings. Retake Pamplona. Knock off a couple spears at Madrid.

IBT- Iros coming in a bit more force now.

Turn 2- Madrid falls. :) No cash.

IBT- Bad guys getting closer. Spot a Roman.

Turn 3- We are up Mono and Feudalism on Caesar. Declare. Lose 2 vet JWs in the mountains against 2 reg archers at Tikal. :mad:

IBT- Spot a number of French knights coming in from the east. Not encouraging.

Turn 4- One more turn of anarchy to go.

IBT- Various bad guys moving about

Turn 5- Anarchy over, monarchy in. Put all the specialists back to the plow.

IBT- Germans don’t seem to be moving in force, but rather away from us. Guess Otto lost his compass.

Turn 6- The new Spanish capital of Santiago defended by 2 spears falls to our two AC armies.

IBT- 3 French knights on the horizon.

Turn 7- Pick off a couple units.

IBT- The 3 knights move onto the mountain by Paleneque.

Turn 8- Fire a number of cats and as much as I don’t want to, decide to assault the mountain knights. Lose 2 MI, but kill all 3 knights. Capture Spanish town of Santander.

IBT- Here come the Mounties. Things are may going to be heading downhill soon. French and Germans still going at it. :D

Turn 9- Lose an AC, capture the latest Spanish capital of Valencia with AC army. :)

IBT- Iro finish KT at Niagara Falls. :( Germans working on Sistines.

Turn 10- Kill a couple more Iroquois units. And done.

Next up will have to decide about Santander. It will get captured by a Spanish archer next turn. We have a 5hp AC army resting and refitting that we probably don’t want to try and move in and defend with.

There are a lot of empty towns, and there clearly is nowhere to narrow the front. It extends so far that in the end we probably can’t hold. But there’s always the fun in trying. ;)

Looks like Spain is now down to a couple towns.
 
Spain is down to 3 cities. I would move the army to protect Satander. By the way, fire the taxmen and hire scientists instead, they are always better than taxmen. With some MM engineering can drop to 6
 
Greebley said:
Monarchy will be rough at the start, but irrigation will get our city sizes up so we can grow. Size 7 cities have only 1 less unit support than despot.
Click to expand...

Greebley, are you thinking about republic? A pop 7 city under monarchy supports 4 units, the same as despotism. :)
 
ThERat said:
Spain is down to 3 cities. I would move the army to protect Satander. By the way, fire the taxmen and hire scientists instead, they are always better than taxmen. With some MM engineering can drop to 6
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree the point about scientist. It's always a problem how to keep research going in AW after GLib is obsolete. You are not scientific, which makes it even harder. Would you like to build library and university?
 
Heroes said:
Greebley, are you thinking about republic? A pop 7 city under monarchy supports 4 units, the same as despotism. :)
Click to expand...

Well pooh! you are right. I am getting my games confused. We are unlikely to ever go for republic in this game.... :crazyeye: :D

We want size 7 so we get the same support as you state - thats what I meant to say :rolleyes:
 
I got it. I think Greebley is right about the far coast. If we capture remaining spanish cities we should be able to reach it and thus narrow the front a little bit. I think we should play risky and send the armies ahead to pillage and raze small cities after the spanish are gone. I know it won't hurt all the AIs, but we can cripple the ones that send the most units. We should keep only the minimum forces required to defend and should send all the surplus to expand further. This is difficult, but imho this is the only way we can win this.
 
Obormot said:
... I think we should play risky and send the armies ahead to pillage and raze small cities after the spanish are gone. I know it won't hurt all the AIs, but we can cripple the ones that send the most units. We should keep only the minimum forces required to defend and should send all the surplus to expand further. This is difficult, but imho this is the only way we can win this.
Click to expand...

I agree. Pillage and expand. We simply cannot fight the amount of knights (and cav) that the AI will send if they remain pillage free. If we can pillage food & roads we will disrupt the AI lux trade, iron & horse supply. This should keep their cities smaller and we will get to fight LB & muskets which are slower and easier to deal with. It's a long shot, but we knew that going in.

The only way I can see winning this is a looooong slow grind them down game where we force the AI to build the units we want. Pillaging is the only way to do that.
 
The other thing we want though is a strong base of supply. Lots of cities will make more units and corrupt science will keep unit costs down and allow science cities that can keep us closer in tech. These are also as important as pillaging in my mind simply because we cannot keep all resources pillaged especially if we don't have the tech to know where they are.

So I think our use of Armies is two-fold. Capture more cities to grow and getting a shorter front line and as you state: pillaging.
 
There are two civs that are a threat based on power, and that's the Iroquois and the French. Now France is off to the west with Germany providing a slight buffer. The Iroquois are the other major power. If we focus our offensive efforts on them and can be successful, we may get this game to a level we can manage.
 
I disagree with that statement Own. A UN or Culture loss is a very real possibility in games Demigod and Up. It is even harder to stop if it is continents.

If you don't clear your continent fast enough you lose. Just having good kill zones doesn't mean you are expanding.
 
preflight:
- MM cities for slightly lower production, but faster growth. Changed taxmen to scientists. Engineering is due in 6 turns at -11gpt.
- Change builds in corrupt areas to settlers: we were building some regular pikemen (?)and some temples there (presumably to fill gaps in culture, but it is better to with settlers)
- Moving units around: some units were fortifiesd in interior towns, but we only need them near the border and near the coast and the cheapest and most uselees ones should carry out MP duty in our biggest cities.
- I move the 5hp AC army into Santander, it is built on hills and the army has defense stronger then 2 so it is actually anout equavilent to a 5hp musket. The risk is actually very low and the town will get autorazed after recapture which is very irritating.
- I rush barracks in Santander so that the army can heal quickly.

IBT
- No attacks this turn, the germans and french continue killing each other, but the mounties approach in big numbers.

130BC
- Kill 2 mounties, a knight and a warrior. Valencia is threatened by more mounties and poorly protected. I can do nothing about it because it doesn't isn't even connected by roads.
- Walls rushed in Valencia.
- Moving units from the more or less quiet french front to the iroquois front.

IBT
- We survive iroquois attack loosing 1 JT. We killed 5 archers and 2 mounties at Valencia and Santander (11-1)

110BC
- Killed iroquois archer, MDI and a mountie and 3 french knights (17-1). The iroquois are attacking from the poorly defended spanish side and i have to use all armies in defense.
- Walls rushed in Santander.

IBT
- We kill 1 mountie and an MDI. (19-1)

90BC
- We kill 2 french knights and a warrior and 3 iroquois archers and an MDI. We loose an elite sword and an MDI to redlined knights :( (26-3)
- Our towns have grown and we can get engineering 1 turn sooner.
- French complete Sun Tzu's.

IBT
- Now that we have walls and good defenders in Santander and Valencia the iroquois decided to move to our interior cities.

70 BC
- We kill 7 iroquois units (archers, knights, mounties, MDI) and loose 2 units. (33-5)
- Now the iroquois front feels more or less safe, so i decided it is safe to send 1 AC army to Spain.

50BC
- We capture the spanish city of Logrono killing 2 spears inside, but we may have to abandon it later because it is close to the iroquois border.
- We kill 2 germans and 5 iroquois, mostly crappy units. (42-5)
- Settle 4 towns in Spain.
- We learn Engineering.

IBT
- We kill a french knight and and iroquois MDI. (44-5)
- The germans and the french are now coming in larger numbers, propably they have signed peace :(

30BC
- AI now know invention because i see LBs coming.
- Kill 4 iroquois and spanish archers/LBs. (48-5)

10BC
- Kill 2 more archers. Kill 1 defender in Asturias. (51-5)
- The things are now quiet on the iroquois front, but the french are moving lots of knights.Palenque and Calacmul are threatened by 3 knigths each. I moved several pikes/knights/cats in and these towns have walls/size>6, so i hope we'll survive this IBT. I cannot attack them because they are on hills/mountains.

IBT
- Well, the french decide not to attack our well defended border cities and head straight to our empry capital which means we may setup a nice kill zone :cool:

10AD
- Kill 4 knights after redlining them with cats/trebs. I still lost an MDI and a knight attacking redlined units in the open.
- Kill 2 iroquois archers and an LB, at last send one of the AC armies to iroquois land.
- Autoraze Asturias killing 1 more defender. (59-7)

IBT
- Iroquois are also attacking with knights now and also near Tikal. We kill 1 iroquois knight.
- More french, german and iroquois units are moving.

30AD
- Kill 3 frnch knights at the kill zone. (63-7)

IBT
- Things get scary as i watch lots of iroqupis, french and germans march on us.

50AD
- After killing a spanish archer i get a leader. I think i had 20+ or even 30+ elite victories this round.
- The last spanish city is captured. (67-7)
- I kill 10 units at Tikal and Calcmul, i didn't have ebough cats to bombard them all and i lost 2 units attacking completely healed enemies (77-9). Still i failed to clear them all and Valencia is now exposed (it has a 4 hp MDI inside and is threatened by a 2hp and an 1 hp archer). I guess we just have 2 cross our fingers there and press enter. If it gets captured we can take it back.

Most attacks in the last few turns were in the Tikal-Calacmul region:


The situation in conquered Spain:

Our AC army in the south seems to have found iroquois core.

I have tried to maximise growth everywhere and i think i have done a nice job with farming. But a large area of our empire has mostly plains and i couldn't do anything
to ake those cities grow fast. We may consider joining some spanish slaves now that Spain is destroyed. I also don't want to build slaves out of productive cities, so
i think we should lower our science a bit to cash-rush settlers in corrupt land. We still have a large piece of Spain to cover.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Handy21_50AD.SAV
 
great progress in such a difficult situation :goodjob:
now let's pillage the iros to eliminate one more threat before we can take on Germany and France
 
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