1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Handy 21 Regular Pangaea AWD again

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by handy900, Oct 9, 2005.

  1. handy900

    handy900 Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    Messages:
    2,411
    Location:
    Tennessee, USA
    270 AD shot


    Turn 3 280
    Kills: xxxxxxx
    Losses:
    We are at risk in Palentine and Calakmul still if we pull a bad RNG.
    If we don’t take away the resources of France and Germany soon we are doomed.
    They are sending far too many knights do deal with. Too many to kill, and if they ever decide to attack our west, forget it.

    IBT
    We hold on for a turn but our lands are crawling with AI

    Turn 4 290
    We are in deep trouble with Ai all over the place in our core.


    Kills:xxxxxxxxx
    Losses

    We relieve the Iroquois of their Dyes and probably break some trades.
    I hope our Pike in Grumpus holds against a horseman that will attack.
    I think we need more Pikes, so I set Grumpus Prime to 15spt for 2 turn pikes after the current knight build is complete.

    IBT
    2 losses and 2 wins with 2 retreats. We did not lose a city. Whew!

    Turn 5 300
    Grumpus gets to 18spt for 4 turn knights.
    Kills: xxxxxxx

    Where are my leaders!? There he IS! Army is going to search for the German and French Iron and Horses.

    300 looking better


    IBT
    No attacks, but lots of Iroquois headed toward our eastern Front

    Turn 6 310
    Kills: xxxxxxxxx Raze Allegheny
    Research turned down because we get guns this turn.
    We can rush some settlers to consolidate the western front.
    With a road network connecting cities on hills perhaps two armies can hold the Iroquois off for a while.
    Knight army sets off to pillage Germany and France killing two knights on the way.
    Ugh, we have 2 13spt cities. Need some mines on hills to get them to 14, but too much Ai activity in the area.
    We are #1 in population, Mfg. Goods, 2 in land and 3 in GNP.
    If we can manage to hold on a little longer and get rid of AI resources so we do not face cavalry maybe we can do this.

    I change my mind each turn. We can do this, we are toast, we can do this, we are toast.... :lol:

    We are very thin and a bad RNG or two and we are in trouble.
    I had to retreat settlers in the west because too many Iroquois showed up.

    IBT
    Win 3 on defense, no losses
    Guns – Chemistry (10 turns)

    Turn 7 320
    Kills: xxxxxxxxx
    Losses: 0
    The number of units is making it difficult to get much traction.
    Our only salt is waaaaaay over in the old Iroquois lands. It is not hooked up yet.
    Spot German Salt we will pillage next turn.
    One turn you feel good about this game, then next you are on pins and needles…
    Attack knight landed from a galley near Madrid, but it retreats. Not Good.

    IBT
    Knight near Madrid Kills out MI and is lose in Old Spain. That is the second knight dropped off near Madrid. I will send knights to recapture it if we lose it.

    Turn 8 330
    Kill: xxxxxx
    Hook up the salt. That is where all the Iroquois are going.
    Lots of pikes to deal with.

    IBT
    French begin Bach.
    More Iroquois! Where did they all come from?
    Portugal is sending three Carracks toward Madrid.
    We have zero units to protect those cities.

    Turn 9 340
    Kills:xxxxx (2nd leader)
    Not enough cities, we have 31 so we need 1 more (I’ll do that next turn, a settler is in place). Our most recent knight army is not even full yet.
    Pillaging army if is a nice kill zone. It pillages one tile and kills 3 French knights.

    IBT
    Well, I apologize but I lost a bunch of slaves to the Iroquois because of stupidity. :wallbash: I hate that and it was a rookie mistake reading where borders were while trying to evacuate them.

    Turn 10
    Kills: xxxxxx
    Spot some German horses
    Kill 3 at Niagara Falls. We can take it next turn or wait one turn to heal the armies.
    Ignore new Iroquois towns and those in the jungle, raze the core.

    Notes:
    We did not lose many on the attack because of the trebs. Might not have lost any actually. We did lose some on the IBT to attacks.
    Big time trouble from the Iroquois at Ake. Maybe abandon the city to keep the army. It's a crap town, but we need that army!
    Check the armies before you attack. Two are not yet fully loaded.
    Might have to abandon Jaen.
    Need roads and mines near Yaks / Palenque if possible.
    Tikal needs irrigation.
    It’s strange to have stats like we do, 8 armies, and feel like we are 2 turns away from losing.

    More Pictures to follow.
     
  2. handy900

    handy900 Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    Messages:
    2,411
    Location:
    Tennessee, USA
  3. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Messages:
    11,378
    Location:
    City of one angel
    don't forget the save, lucky you give me something to play this weekend, since I am one of those unlucky guys without Civ4
     
  4. handy900

    handy900 Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    Messages:
    2,411
    Location:
    Tennessee, USA
    It's there. 10 turns of highs an lows. It's a razor's edge. I thought we were gonna get hurt bad in 290.

    Avoid the temptation to pull the pillaging army back home. We need to cut their GPT, production, break trades, and reduce them to foot based units to have a chance.
     
  5. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Messages:
    11,378
    Location:
    City of one angel
    save

    Pre-Turn
    ok what is the situation:
    us: 32 cities, all resources
    Rome: 13 cities, no iron
    Iro: 18 cities, no horses
    Germany 11 cities, no salt
    Portugal 13 cities, no salt
    France 19 cities, no salt

    seems salpeter is rare
    well, Ake is under such a threat, that I prefer to retreat unit and give up the town
    I abandon the town to avoid losing the trebs

    IT retreated pike kills 2 on hill defense, and we get an AC

    1.360AD
    kill knight and spear at Madrid, town still stands
    pillage German horses, no more knights for a while
    capture Niagara Falls with knights templar and the pyramids, too good to abandon :dance:
    kill another 4 units near our core and set up attack near Munich, that town needs to be razed fast

    IT the big Iro stack now moves towards Logrono, where our salt is

    2. 370AD
    kill 5 units next to Calakmul, 4 units die in Munich adn it is razed for 6 slaves, 1 AC will die next turn being exposed though
    defeat 1 spear in Madrid, but another one is inside already

    IT our AC kills 1 MDI, but then dies a heroic death, huge stack does not attack Logrono, but goes for undefended kabah
    good news, the weaker Germans finish Leo in Frankfurt, we should be able to get that town later and keep it

    3. 380AD
    kill a few units near our core, but there aren't that many
    cut off Germans spices and spot iron
    rest 2 knights near Madrid, not easy to take back a town in deity with constant rushing
    shift units east to be able to defend those towns from iro hordes, kill 3 pikes/spears there
    since Iro only have slow movers, move out armies from Niagara Falls in case it flips

    IT stack of 17 units next to Kabah now :eek:

    4. 390AD
    defeat a few units, trying to set up attack on Hamburg, attack Salamanca and defeat 2 units there
    attack Madrid and that's really worthwhile


    reduce the Iro stack to 11 units, hoping we can keep the town

    IT exposed knight on hill wins against 2 Lb's promoting elite
    you can always count on AI stupidity, the Iro stack moves now away, maybe they want their KT town back :lol:
    and we get a templar

    5. 400AD
    defeat another pike and raze Salamanca, now that must hurt them
    attack hamburg with army, but redline with first attack, retreat out of range :eek:
    defeat some units here and there, found Ek Balam
    German iron is pillaged, they are resourceless for the time being, since the town next to it is defended by spears only, defeat 2 and raze Hannover

    IT no, we lose 2 defenders against wounded knights
    we get chemistry, metal next though it will obsolete Zeus

    6. 410AD
    JT army razes new French town Brest in the south for 300+ gold, this is what we should do to increase our income
    France has a ton of money (11500gold), then game crashes, not very often that i get it on this scale
    raze Chondote, the iro salt town for 2 pults, and 5 workers, 2 of them our own
    kill 5 other Iro units, some of that stack now in Neodakheat, that must thin them slowly

    IT as expected Niagara falls will be the new target, 4 units around there now, we better expand to that city fast

    7. 420AD
    found Tazumal giving us a 2nd source of salt
    army advances near iro and germans and spot a new source of horses next to Frankfurt
    take Neodakheat, advance and spot the stack now with 9 units on the way to Niagara Falls
    found Cozumel
    defeat a few strays and 2 units next to Niagara Falls

    IT I don't know exactly what they :smoke:, but it must be potent stuff, since the Iros decide to follow our templar instead of going
    straight for Niagara Falls

    8. 430AD
    found Chichen Bugza and Yaxchilan
    the idiotic Iro move enables me to defeat 2 units of the stack and pull an army there before they can even attack
    pillage horse by Frankfurt, spot iron, then attack St. Regis and defeat 2 units inside
    set up proper attack on Hamburg with 2 armies

    IT defeat knight on defense, Iros finally get it right and advance to Niagara Falls
    the Germans are pretty beat at the moment, the French are the problem, many knights and pikes

    9. 440AD
    raze St. Regis, reduce the number of attackers to 3 at Niagara Falls, rush a rax there for the templar next turn
    raze Hamburg and defeat a French settler pair nearby
    defeat 1 pike and 1 spear and take Alcacer do Sol, the Portugese culture is extremely poor
    army spots French iron in the west

    IT lose a musket on defense :(

    10.1300AD
    defeat a few units here and there, there is one French pike that might attack a wounded knight and take the town in the east
    we should take it back then for some handsome cash

    next turn I hope we can pillage the French iron, remember they have NO salt, and that means no Cavs
    set up attack on 2 towns. I would wipe out Iros maybe even keeoing some towns while pillaging France
    We might also want to take Frankfurt with Leo to upgrade our trebs and later knights
    Metal is ready in 6 turns, nobody knows it yet :)

    this game is looking very good IMHO, maybe because handy got rid of the enemy units
    situation now:
    us: 40 cities, all resources
    Rome: 13 cities, no iron
    Iro: 14 cities, no horses, no salt
    Germany 8 cities, no salt, no iron (but Frankfurt has)
    Portugal 14 cities, no salt, no horses
    France 18 cities, no salt




     
  6. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Messages:
    11,378
    Location:
    City of one angel
    and the Roster
    1. Handy
    2. ThERat
    3. Greebley - up
    4. M60A3TTS - on deck
    5. Obormot
    6. Bugs
     
  7. handy900

    handy900 Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    Messages:
    2,411
    Location:
    Tennessee, USA
    Excellent Fantastic wonderful work on the Iroquois and capturing Knights Templar!

    I was very concerned about the Iroquois stack.

    We may actually have an opportunity to narrow our front a little here. The inland sea south of Calakmul is causing the French & Germans to move their units thru the pass S of Calakmul.

    I would not be attacking with our pillaging army unless it is fully healed (it is okay to kill some random unfortified knights on flat land with it). It is far too valuable running lose in France's core taking away their roads and mines. A city (or fort) 1 tile north of the salt could bomb the AI as they walk past, and we could catch them on flat land.

    We don't know the vikings yet, so be a little careful exploring if possible. Zerks from boats would be a real PITA.

    Again, sorry about the loss of those workers. We could use them to build a road network for the armies to use.

    Should we rush some culture in the Knight templar city if we have the coin?
     
  8. M60A3TTS

    M60A3TTS Ex-treadhead

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    2,526
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I certainly agree with that. If it is pretty much ocean or sea south of Leipzig, that can mean a vastly shorter defense line, and an opportunity to isolate the Iros from the rest.
     
  9. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Messages:
    11,378
    Location:
    City of one angel
    flip risk extremely low since Iro culture is pretty bad. I think we should wipe them out and keep whatever we can. The lake is a good devider for us to expand and it has Frankfurt with Leo on our side of the lake.

    I think we can now win this game. If we keep an eye on the resources, then it is doable. With salt/iron disconnected the AI will send those LB victims.
     
  10. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    5,448
    If you don't win this (I doubt that), and want to try again, I've got a very interesting AWD standard pan map as the Mayans. I can't tell exactly why though...
     
  11. handy900

    handy900 Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    Messages:
    2,411
    Location:
    Tennessee, USA
    Yes - making the AI send us the units we want is key.

    If it is possible we should try and get the Jav army in a location (Calakmul area?) where it can produce slaves for us to replace those I lost. If we get a diet of LB's we can farm a lot of slaves which will be ugh... handy when rails come in.
     
  12. handy900

    handy900 Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    Messages:
    2,411
    Location:
    Tennessee, USA
    :hmm: I looked at the save and I think keeping Iroquois towns will slow us down for minimal benefit. The Iroquois cities are far away from our core and those cities are corrupt, so they don't do us that much good. The Iroquois still have attack units, and keeping an army back defending those cities helps the AI more than it helps us. IMO sending armies out to raze more cities will help us more, especially those cities along the inland sea in Germany. Exceptions would be cities with a lux we don't have, and of course the Knights Templar city needs an army for protection.

    Once we control the choke areas along the inland sea, we will have a much better front line, and can rush settlers to fill in the old Iroquois lands since they will be behind our lines. In the meantime we can settle out from our current position (especially near the core) and grow in areas near other cities that we can defend more easlily.

    France has no salt, so a couple of knight armies could do a :hammer: number on their core cities versus pikes.

    It's worth thinking about.
     
  13. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Messages:
    11,378
    Location:
    City of one angel
    maybe you are right about Iro towns, but I kept the 2nd town for faster access of those moutains which separate that part of the land. I think we can mop them easily now.

    Going after the French as long as they have only pikes is a very good way, especially since they are so rich. They can enable us to go max lux/science all times since we get 300g for each town currently.
     
  14. handy900

    handy900 Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    Messages:
    2,411
    Location:
    Tennessee, USA
    That was good. It's the remaining far flung towns I was mainly talking about.
    If we do go after France, we want to avoid attacking any cities that have wonders we want to keep. Raze, collect cash, move on.

    Did I read in your log Leo is in Germany on "our" side of the inland sea? If it is, that would be a super prize to grab before we finish researching MT. Perhaps controlling Leo and the inland sea choke points is more important than sending armies off to France. SInce France has no salt, we have time to consolidate the inland sea front before we head to France. Overcommitment is dangerous. If we play smart & safe this game looks a lot like a win. Greebley can decide what is best.

    Not that he needs it, but a quick reminder to Greebley to check specialists frequently. Since Rat captured the Pyramids we can grow specialists quite fast with irrigation. Corrupt cities working hills is a waste of a good scientist. We will have an army of researchers. :thumbsup:

    1. Handy
    2. ThERat
    3. Greebley - up
    4. M60A3TTS - on deck
    5. Obormot
    6. Bugs
     
  15. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    9,442
    Location:
    Boston Area, MA
    Ok, I got it and will start playing now.
     
  16. Ansar

    Ansar Détente avec l'été

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    10,555
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY (soon)
    lurker's comment: You guys switched to a monarchy right? You cant possible still be in despotism... :crazyeye:, anyways, GREAT writeups. :thumbsup:
     
  17. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    9,442
    Location:
    Boston Area, MA
    Preturn: I use one of our healing knight armies to capture a settler to gain 2 more workers.

    Everything looks good. I notice we have been concentrating so much on Military we haven't even built Market or Lib in the capitol. I wonder if such a concentration is required for this level along with expansion to lower Mil costs.

    IBT: Not Much

    460 AD: Raze Berlin. There is a Pike to the far east. 2 Knights attack it and both retreat without doing a single HP to it. It will be pilliging us I expect while the Knights heal.
    Capture Oiogouen.

    I think I would rather capture cities and push our front line to the lakes to shorten our borders. I may raze some though...

    470 AD: Gah! 2 knights and 1 ACav cannot do a single HP to an injured pike. Fortunately, 2 retreat and we only lose 1 knight.
    We do capture Grand River.

    480 AD: Healing mostly. Pillage French (only) Iron.

    IBT: Knight lands near Aicacer do Sal (rename to Eastern Shores)

    490 AD: Kill knight

    500 AD: On Iroquois Iron Will pillage next turn. Healing by Armies.

    510 AD: Healing some more. Pillage 3 French Incense.

    520 AD: Attack newer Iroquois city and Autodestroy it.

    Late: Lost the names of the towns but I have been razing a few 2 bit Iroquois towns.
    I raze one of the German towns West of the River.
    Finally got a leader and built a Knight Army.

    On turn 550 AD we capture Frankfort with Leos in it.

    Notes:
    We will want to move our Army near Tika back to the West.

    We are short on Defense so we need to be careful about protecting cities. Landings happen near Eastern Shores. There are a bunch of Roman units in the Southwest near Cattauragus. Not sure where they are heading though.

    I am hoping the next player can capture the lands up to the choke. We then will have a short front line (not counting boats).

    I agree that we will win this. This game really proves the addage about continuing to expand. We pushed expansion very hard even though it meant risking minor cities and I think it turned out to be the right choice.

    4 turns to Cavalry!!!

    There is a landing near Eastern Shores that may attack our town next turn. They cannot take it though.

    Here is a picture of our front-to-be. I also included a very large picture of our lands as an attachment.

     
  18. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    9,442
    Location:
    Boston Area, MA
    We ended in Anarchy on my previous turn, so we have been in Monarchy for about one rotation.
     
  19. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    5,448
    lurker's comment: IMO this game is almost won, so I'll just tell you that my map had a one tile choke point with a hill :D . I have miltrad but no salt though, so it may have been very difficult actually.
     
  20. handy900

    handy900 Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    Messages:
    2,411
    Location:
    Tennessee, USA
    Nice job. The yellow dots look like a nice front which should yield some leaders for cav armies. We can then back fill the desert and the Iroquois lands. When we get MT turn research down to upgrade knights to cav.

    1. Handy
    2. ThERat
    3. Greebley
    4. M60A3TTS - up
    5. Obormot
    6. Bugs

    This has been a most amazing game. We have gone from...

    to....

    I had this down as a loss as recently as 290, and thought it would pretty much end during my turns. Then we got decent RNG treatment and the number of French knights began to decrease a little (war with vikings?). Rat and Greebley have kept the pressure on the AI and here we are. What a difference in 30 turns.

    Well played game by a good team. Good turn sets by all. :hatsoff:
     

Share This Page