Harvestable Resources

[Mortenart]

With the ability now to pick up various items throughout the game, I was wondering if it would be possible to apply a similar mechanic to certain resources. For example, a herd of horses could easily be rounded up (perhaps requiring the subdue animal promo or a ranger/druid), and hauled off to any other plains or grassland tile you wished to place them. Fish/crabs/clams could be transplanted from one coastal region to another, and the same principal could be used for crops/dye/reagents. The correct specialists for these tasks would be required.
Perhaps you could even take a shard from a mana node and `grow` it in laboratories back in your cities, which after a resonable number of turns would become a full-blown mana node which you could place anywhere within your cultural boundaries. To balance the extra number of mana nodes, it might be necessary to make them destroyable through razing.
Not sure if any of these ideas are implementable...

 

[mtagge]

All possible with XML and Python changes. Since I assume it would piggyback off the the spell system FFH has the python aspects of it would be minimal (i.e. just the pPlot.setBonusType() and pPlot.getBonusType() commands themselves plus adding promos for when the unit is carrying the bonus and error checking on the spells themselves).

I have a little too much on my plate right now, but maybe down the line if you have a fully fleshed out idea in the thread I might rig something up. Can't promise anything substantial though until July.

edit: It might be a good idea for things for great specialist to do, especially since some people are calling for bulbing to be taken off the table. i.e. Merchants for commerce items, Engineers for minerals, etc.

 

[Grand Seeker]

I enjoy these idees.

Great engineer might be able to "find" a given minerall in a hill.
Rangers might be able to move sheeps, pigs, etc.
Druids or some other great people might 'plant' things.

Maybe we could then introduce resourses which does not exist naturally, but only can be gained through Great persons?

For example:
'Mithrill can only be found by a great engineer'

Sound like very fun to me.

But might these things make resources gathering to easy? And will we see mega cities where all flat titles have wheat and all hils gold?

 

[Mortenart]

I have a little too much on my plate right now, but maybe down the line if you have a fully fleshed out idea in the thread I might rig something up. Can't promise anything substantial though until July.

edit: It might be a good idea for things for great specialist to do, especially since some people are calling for bulbing to be taken off the table. i.e. Merchants for commerce items, Engineers for minerals, etc.

Superb, cheers mtagge! Great specialists would be the perfect answer, and would also guard against what GS was saying - cities having every tile crammed with one resource or another. Limiting the ability to transplant (or grow) a resource to a one shot great specialist function would ensure that the influx of new stuff was kept to a minimum. Not sure about any more minerals becoming available as these are pretty well covered already in-game, but perhaps a great engineer could have a chance of discovery some uber rare resource, which could be used for better weapons/armour, or in some other capacity.

Good news that these ideas seem possible, I can certainly post some more detailed ideas closer to July, to compliment whatever anyone else might suggest before then.

 

[nihonjeff]

I really dig this idea of using Great People to "find" resources, especially since there is currently another thread discussing how to maintain the sense of flexibility in deciding how best to apply a Great Person, rather than having one obvious choice that overpowers all others (i.e. Great Sage -> Academy). This could also address Calbrenar's request here, asking for a way to address the AV / Reagents question.

Here's what I'd propose:

An appropriate Great Person could be sacrificed on an appropriate piece of terrain to "discover" or cultivate a certain resource.

Great Sage: Gunpowder, Reagents, (Raw Mana Node?)
Great Prophet: Gulagarm, Incense, Ivory, Nightmare, Razorweed, Sheut Stone, Toads
Great Merchant: Banana, Clam, Corn, Cotton, Cow, Crab, Deer, Fish, Horse, Pig, Rice, Sheep, Sugar, Whale, Wheat
Great Bard: Dye, Fur, Pearls, Silk, Wine
Great Engineer: Copper, Gems, Gold, Iron, Marble, Mithril
Great Commander: (None?)

Not sure this is the best distribution, but it at least gives each specialist the chance to provide something (except Great Commanders). Seems awkward to give Bards the most "merchanty" resources, but it works better than the opposite. At least this way Bards are still associated with happiness, culture, and luxuries instead of cows and whales.

 

[BeefontheBone]

If you want to prevent cities form being crowded with a ton of resources, you could simply put a python block in the spell to check that there aren't, say, more than 2 resources adjacent. Though you could till make a

X X
 X 
X X

shape by putting the middle one down first. Hmm. Might need to do no more than 3 within 2 tiles or something.

I like the idea; it sounds like a rather nice alternative to 'bulbing and will allow people to get reagents and things if they lack them. If you're going to allow resources with huge tile yield bonuses, not to mention strategic benefit, like Mithril, I think you'd need to randomly choose a resource (which would normally be valid on the tile?) to create - would then be trivial to make an engineer pop mithril only very rarely. Oh, and make sure he's not in a city too, otherwise they'd be too easy to defend

 

[Alzara]

The original idea is compelling! I'd like to see how this develops. Certainly the creation of resources with great people is an excellent idea!

Al

 

[JJR]

I really dig this idea of using Great People to "find" resources, especially since there is currently another thread discussing how to maintain the sense of flexibility in deciding how best to apply a Great Person, rather than having one obvious choice that overpowers all others (i.e. Great Sage -> Academy). This could also address Calbrenar's request here, asking for a way to address the AV / Reagents question.

Here's what I'd propose:

An appropriate Great Person could be sacrificed on an appropriate piece of terrain to "discover" or cultivate a certain resource.

Great Sage: Gunpowder, Reagents, (Raw Mana Node?)
Great Prophet: Gulagarm, Incense, Ivory, Nightmare, Razorweed, Sheut Stone, Toads
Great Merchant: Banana, Clam, Corn, Cotton, Cow, Crab, Deer, Fish, Horse, Pig, Rice, Sheep, Sugar, Whale, Wheat
Great Bard: Dye, Fur, Pearls, Silk, Wine
Great Engineer: Copper, Gems, Gold, Iron, Marble, Mithril
Great Commander: (None?)

Not sure this is the best distribution, but it at least gives each specialist the chance to provide something (except Great Commanders). Seems awkward to give Bards the most "merchanty" resources, but it works better than the opposite. At least this way Bards are still associated with happiness, culture, and luxuries instead of cows and whales.

I like the idea too...although you would have to figure out how to place water based resources without giving the GP some form of water walking. =)

Also, you could maybe use the commanders for stealing resources from a civ that you're at war with? or provide access to them for a short amount of time based on game speed? Maybe casting a spell over the resource (adding a promotion) then running him to a city to recast(or uncast) to place the resource in that city for X amount of turns?

Although you may have to sac the commander to stop people from having an unlimited supply of weapon upgrades.

 

[nihonjeff]

I like the idea too...although you would have to figure out how to place water based resources without giving the GP some form of water walking. =)

I had imagined that they would just get on a boat.

Also, you could maybe use the commanders for stealing resources from a civ that you're at war with? or provide access to them for a short amount of time based on game speed? Maybe casting a spell over the resource (adding a promotion) then running him to a city to recast(or uncast) to place the resource in that city for X amount of turns?

Or, perhaps you could sacrifice a Great Commander to permanently destroy a resource...? Could picture attaching a Commander to a Shadow, sneaking him into enemy territory, and destroying the enemy's Reagents. Could be an interesting use for Commanders (especially for Organized leaders...)

 

[JJR]

I had imagined that they would just get on a boat.

Doh, I keep forgetting that you can use units that are being transported. =)

 

[westamastaflash]

I had imagined that they would just get on a boat.



Or, perhaps you could sacrifice a Great Commander to permanently destroy a resource...? Could picture attaching a Commander to a Shadow, sneaking him into enemy territory, and destroying the enemy's Reagents. Could be an interesting use for Commanders (especially for Organized leaders...)

A great spy should do this! Bring in BTS espionage!

 

[Zobo]

Please do not.

CIV IV removed all micromanaging like pollution and stuff.

And BTS gave it back with espionage related improvement destruction. I hate espionage.

 

[attackdrone]

And BTS gave it back with espionage related improvement destruction. I hate espionage.

Espionage micro-management is my personal least favorite aspect of Beyond the Sword. What I would enjoy seeing is a macro-scale espionage system put in place - perhaps you can see into the cities of a civilization if you have a certain level of espionage on them (as determined by shared borders, open border pacts, your espionage level, a shared religion, etc). Also a script that causes damaging effects (burned improvements, unhappiness, loss of production) when war is declared between the two civilizations could be implemented - representing sleeper agents and spies planted before the war. This script would likely be as resource-intensive as the genesis script however, and possibly too much trouble to be worth it.

 

[clut]

Getting back to the Great People just 'popping' a new resource topic...I think this is unrealistic.

Exactly how would an engineer make gold, or copper just appear in hills? That said, i'm all for great people taking a resource such as Horse, and moving them to a different tile (herding).

I know this is a fantasy mod, but flat out creation of resources seems a little too unrealistic.

 

[westamastaflash]

They don't create them - they "discover" them!

 

[nihonjeff]

Exactly how would an engineer make gold, or copper just appear in hills? That said, i'm all for great people taking a resource such as Horse, and moving them to a different tile (herding).

Like Westmasta Flash said, it's not intended to simulate a Great Engineer saying "Let there be Iron!", and having Iron suddenly pop into existence where there was none before. It's intended to represent the Engineer saying, "Hey! Guys! I think you missed this incredibly rich vein of ore over here!" in the same way that Earth mana allows for. In other words, your Engineer is George Hearst.

For "surface" resources, it's easy enough to justify a Great Merchant driving a herd of cows and setting up a new ranching ground, or a Great Sage delicately transplanting cuttings of rare Reagents useful to his research.

 

[Grand Seeker]

I would also LOVE that some reasorces (mithril) would ONLY be available through great people. In that way mithril would be realy realy rare, as I understand that it should be, but you will still have the ability to get them if you plan for it.

 

[thewyrm]

The only down side to this idea is that it kinda screws the Grigori. They would need a way to do it without GP's.

 

[Demus]

true, they wouldn't get the prophets res, but the rest should be double as easy for them (world spell).

Personally, i like the idea of certain great persons finding certain strategic resources (incense, reagents, mithril, horses?), with each one providing a certain resource. However, instead of saying "i want that resource on that location!", turn it into them finding 1 sample of the resource somewhere random on your territory. This would allow you to get all your important res. without being able to create supercities.

 

[Dora190]

true, they wouldn't get the prophets res, but the rest should be double as easy for them (world spell).

Personally, i like the idea of certain great persons finding certain strategic resources (incense, reagents, mithril, horses?), with each one providing a certain resource. However, instead of saying "i want that resource on that location!", turn it into them finding 1 sample of the resource somewhere random on your territory. This would allow you to get all your important res. without being able to create supercities.

For the Grigori, the adventurer replaces the prophet. I also like the idea of the GP being sacrificed in a city and the resource turns up somewhere in the empire.