Has Civ 7 Legitimized Humankind?

[KayAU]

With regards to the backlash against Civ 7's civ change mechanics, I understand it, but it is not the thing I am most worried about. It could even turn out to be good. Even in Humankind, I somewhat enjoyed it, despite being far from the implementation I would have preferred. Civ 7 will have fewer civ changes, and they have much clearer and more distinct leaders to help give each faction a persistent identity. I could still end up not liking it, but I'll reserve judgement until I know more.

What worries me more is that they will continue the practice from Civ 6 of haphazardly piling on content, never refine or change systems which turn out to be bad, and not make systems interact meaningfully. The pre-order offers have reinforced this fear. They are charging a lot for the game, and are already selling future DLC. I worry that this might suggest similar priorities for Civ 7. They'll make more money selling packs with extra leaders and a gameplay mode in which mountains are zombies or whatever, than to fix a broken world congress system people have already paid for.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't Ara vs Civ for me. I want both to be excellent. But Ara is the one that I've played and enjoyed, and which I am currently most optimistic about. Hopefully Civ 7 will turn out to be good as well, and I will get both.

 

[King Flevance]

I actually like the system in Humankind but I do agree it has the drawback of every game feeling the same because there is a personal disconnect to your civs culture due to it drastically changing every 80 turns - or whatever it is. However, I don't find it some great act to follow unless you can figure out a way to make it actually feel like your civ is building on your past decisions without destroying balance and railroading strategies. It seems doomed to either feel random and impersonal or feel like there is a most powerful route and to deviate is to risk loss. Either way makes every game feel the same at the end of the day.

 

[Siptah]

What worries me more is that they will continue the practice from Civ 6 of haphazardly piling on content, never refine or change systems which turn out to be bad, and not make systems interact meaningfully.

That's also one of my main concerns. This lead not just to a strange experience, but also a lot of fatigue for me. Clicks per turn increased all the time, but meaningful decisions didn't, and so many clicks were forced on you for no good reason.

 

[Professor Phobo]

There are so many notifications in the late game of Civ VI and almost none of them matter.

 

[Zaarin]

I personally loved the game, there is a great amount of depth here, and it seems really well put together.

I didn't say it's a bad game; I said I didn't like it. Unlike some of the people throwing tantrums about Civ7, I know the difference. I'm sure many people will like it, and as I said, I respect it for doing its own thing. But I've found all three alphas on the spectrum from miserable to tedious. I didn't get to the end of any of them because I always reached a point where I asked myself why I was still playing; it definitely doesn't satisfy the "one more turn" itch for me.

 

[KayAU]

I didn't say it's a bad game; I said I didn't like it. Unlike some of the people throwing tantrums about Civ7, I know the difference. I'm sure many people will like it, and as I said, I respect it for doing its own thing. But I've found all three alphas on the spectrum from miserable to tedious. I didn't get to the end of any of them because I always reached a point where I asked myself why I was still playing; it definitely doesn't satisfy the "one more turn" itch for me.

I didn't enjoy the first two alphas. The first was really unpleasant, as it was extremely rough, there was little to do, it ran poorly, and there were horrible animated watermarks over the whole screen. I suppose it was mostly an engine test. In the second I could see the beginnings of some interesting systems, but it was too cluttered and got tedious rather quickly. The third is where I felt everything started to come together, and I played it obsessively. I noticed other people on the insider forums had played it even more, so it seems it really clicked for some of us.

That does not delegitimze your impressions of course. People will enjoy different things. For myself, for example, I could never get into Endless Legend. I know a lot of people really enjoyed it, it has great reviews, and I believe it to be a good game. But personally, I don't like playing it.

 

[Zaarin]

The third is where I felt everything started to come together, and I played it obsessively. I noticed other people on the insider forums had played it even more, so it seems it really clicked for some of us.

That does not delegitimze your impressions of course. People will enjoy different things. For myself, for example, I could never get into Endless Legend. I know a lot of people really enjoyed it, it has great reviews, and I believe it to be a good game. But personally, I don't like playing it.

The third demo was definitely a marked improvement over the first two. I hope the game does well because they seem to have done a really good job with it; I think I'd probably enjoy it if they just toned down the crafting elements, which left me really frustrated in the mid game. (I wish I liked EL better. ES2 is one of my favorite 4X games, but EL is just kind of...boring. It has some good ideas, but I've only gotten about 20 hours out of it.)

 

[lt22677]

I didn't say it's a bad game; I said I didn't like it. Unlike some of the people throwing tantrums about Civ7, I know the difference. I'm sure many people will like it, and as I said, I respect it for doing its own thing. But I've found all three alphas on the spectrum from miserable to tedious. I didn't get to the end of any of them because I always reached a point where I asked myself why I was still playing; it definitely doesn't satisfy the "one more turn" itch for me.

It won't be a bad game in your opinion but it went BAD, so to speak it only has one Expansion (in addition to the usual DLCs of civilization, wonders etc..) the developers haven't been in touch since last January and there hasn't been any news of patches or DLCs for a long time time, there are two cases: either there is a large expansion in the works or Amplitude have abandoned the game, you see which is the most realistic possibility

PS: It seems that the developers are working on Endless Legend 2

 

[Zaarin]

It won't be a bad game in your opinion but it went BAD, so to speak it only has one Expansion (in addition to the usual DLCs of civilization, wonders etc..) the developers haven't been in touch since last January and there hasn't been any news of patches or DLCs for a long time time, there are two cases: either there is a large expansion in the works or Amplitude have abandoned the game, you see which is the most realistic possibility

Endless Legend is a ten year old game with two new releases from the developers since then--why would we even expect more content from it? My original post was about Ara, which isn't made by Amplitude and isn't even out yet. (If you're talking about Humankind, no, that was just plainly a bad game.)

 

[Thormodr]

Do they have Civ/faction switching in Endless Legend?

 

[Zaarin]

Do they have Civ/faction switching in Endless Legend?

No.

 

[lt22677]

Do they have Civ/faction switching in Endless Legend?

No

 

[lt22677]

Endless Legend is a ten year old game with two new releases from the developers since then--why would we even expect more content from it? My original post was about Ara, which isn't made by Amplitude and isn't even out yet. (If you're talking about Humankind, no, that was just plainly a bad game.)

Ok Endless Legend (Sep. 2014)

Save 75% on ENDLESS™ Legend on Steam

ENDLESS™ Legend is a 4X turn-based fantasy strategy game by the creators of ENDLESS™ Space and Dungeon of the ENDLESS™. Control every aspect of your civilization as you struggle to save your homeworld Auriga. Create your own Legend!

store.steampowered.com

Humankind (Aug. 2021)

HUMANKIND™ on Steam

Rewrite history by shaping a civilization as unique as you are. Combine 60 cultures from the Ancient Era to the Modern Age to lead your empire to victory. Build thriving cities, outsmart rivals in epic battles, spread your influence and leave your mark on HUMANKIND™.

store.steampowered.com

Let's see the last patches
14 November 2023

https://steamdb.info/app/289130/patchnotes/

24 January 2024

https://steamdb.info/app/289130/patchnotes/

Let's see last DLC release date

May 2021

https://store.steampowered.com/dlc/289130/ENDLESS_Legend/

Sep 2023

Steam DLC Page: HUMANKIND™

store.steampowered.com

So in your opinion which of the two games went better (in reality for one we can talk about FAILURE)?

 

[Zaarin]

So in your opinion which of the two games went better (in reality for one we can talk about FAILURE)?

I'm really not sure what you're asking or what relevance it has to anything. Endless Legends was okay. Humankind was bad. Both Endless Space games were great. (And ES2 is receiving some much needed postmortem patches from the community given official release by Amplitude.)

 

[Siptah]

So in your opinion which of the two games went better (in reality for one we can talk about FAILURE)?

Depends to a large extent on how you define failure. Also please note that the last EL patch was mostly to assure compatibility with newer computers, nothing being added or improved in the game itself.

Has Amplitude decided that it's better to move on from Humankind to a next game, e.g., Humankind 2? It sure looks like it. Or maybe they are pulling an Imperator Move and are working on a full rework? But do they move on because they regard Humankind as a FAILURE or simply because they see better options? Unclear, I seriously doubt the first from what I've read and heard. It might just be that they run the numbers and thought it makes more sense to make the successor instead working on the first game for much longer - which I would agree with.

 

[lt22677]

I'm really not sure what you're asking or what relevance it has to anything. Endless Legends was okay. Humankind was bad. Both Endless Space games were great. (And ES2 is receiving some much needed postmortem patches from the community given official release by Amplitude.)

You didn't understand the concept: EL2 was a financial success so much so that the developers supported the game until 2023, HK was a financial failure so much so that the last patch was in January 2024 and Amplitude most likely abandoned the game to dedicate to the sequel to EL, is the concept clearer to you now?

 

[lt22677]

Depends to a large extent on how you define failure. Also please note that the last EL patch was mostly to assure compatibility with newer computers, nothing being added or improved in the game itself.

Has Amplitude decided that it's better to move on from Humankind to a next game, e.g., Humankind 2? It sure looks like it. Or maybe they are pulling an Imperator Move and are working on a full rework? But do they move on because they regard Humankind as a FAILURE or simply because they see better options? Unclear, I seriously doubt the first from what I've read and heard. It might just be that they run the numbers and thought it makes more sense to make the successor instead working on the first game for much longer - which I would agree with.

A software house continues to produce DLC if it's worth it, that is, they don't waste time and resources with a game that is no longer profitable EL was supported from 2014 to 2023 HK from 2021 to 2024 I would say that El was a success then you can say that success and failure are subjective, but if Amplitude has most likely abandoned HK after 2 years while EL after 9 years will there be a reason?

 

[Siptah]

HK was a financial failure

Look, it's completely fine that you hate the game. But as you might know, some people on this forums were a bit more involved with Amplitude for Humankind. So, you might be able to understand that it is interesting to see what you are coming up with when actually, it is [redacted]. It's fine to vent every now and then and to express your opinions. But please refrain from baseless claims unless you have seen the actual sales numbers, production costs, and expectations.

 

[lt22677]

Look, it's completely fine that you hate the game. But as you might know, some people on this forums were a bit more involved with Amplitude for Humankind. So, you might be able to understand that it is interesting to see what you are coming up with when actually, it is [redacted]. It's fine to vent every now and then and to express your opinions. But please refrain from baseless claims unless you have seen the actual sales numbers, production costs, and expectations.

Ah ok the problem is that it was my hatred that made the game fail, not that most people didn't like it (evidently the silent majority in addition to keeping quiet should have bought and played HK), however there is a solution those who like the game need to start a campaign to get HK owners to play more because otherwise Amplitude will continue not to care about the game (don't count on me, you know how you said I hate the game )

 

[lt22677]

But please refrain from baseless claims unless you have seen the actual sales numbers, production costs, and expectations.

baseless claims? brought you the data of the last patch, last dlc and for you these are not data? Ok and what are your data?