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Has Pingala made the early game duller?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Victoria, Feb 11, 2019.

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Will Pingala made the early game duller in your view?

  1. Yes

    8 vote(s)
    9.9%
  2. No

    57 vote(s)
    70.4%
  3. don't care

    13 vote(s)
    16.0%
  4. In thread response different to the above

    3 vote(s)
    3.7%
  1. ChocolateShake

    ChocolateShake Chieftain

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    Yup that's true, I think the way science and culture are at the moment it'll always be best to grab as much as you can early. You could be up against an opponent who could get much more out of Pingala than you could so it'll still be important to fight for the edge. Some AIs do tend to get huge cities early on. Pingala will make it easier to start off but you'll still need to get a good sized city and some time to get the 2 promotions.

    I would like to see him have some sort of condition attached to these bonuses though.
     
  2. steveg700

    steveg700 Warlord

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    What you would be willing to do for five dollars is probably less than someone on the streets desperate for their next meal would do for the same amount. It just isn't going to make as big of an impact.

    If you have a baseline reliable income, what once was a major advantage now becomes more of a nice option for a slight advantage.
     
  3. anandus

    anandus Errorist

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    Sure, but I don't think it'd matter much. I'll still scout, regardless of Pingala's upgrade.
     
  4. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Chieftain

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    So instead of a +% Pingala will now give raw Culture and Science per Population? Dang, that's exploitable. Opens up some new possibilities to proceed through the ages and reshuffles the relative Civ strength, which is exactly what I hope for in an expansion.
     
    Kmart_Elvis likes this.
  5. steveg700

    steveg700 Warlord

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    So will I. But it won't be the jackpot experience Victoria, the OP, was speaking of. Players will greedily take everything can get, but there's a difference between getting a sandwich when you're starving to death and getting a sandwich due to a gluttonous appetite. That is all.
     
  6. ChocolateShake

    ChocolateShake Chieftain

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    Great post. Yup I think there could be unexplored potential there - getting Magnus would allow you to produce more settlers, and more cities + districts sooner could be just as viable or more powerful than getting Pingala up and running first, especially given the more exponential benefits of districts and cities. Pingala will certainly provide a good boost early on, but he might not be as essential a choice as we might think right now. It's certainly something where interesting alternatives could be revealed.

    There could be a scenario where you could have 4 cities and Pingala giving you +8 culture by turn 50 (just random numbers), along with 2 theater squares, or you have 6 cities with Magnus having rushed theatre districts in 3 of them. Pingala would probably still have an edge in culture but Magnus would give you more options and a better ability to make use of the techs/civics you unlock, even though you could be slightly behind. Thinking in terms of optimal play a Magnus, or more specialized opening with other governor/civ combinations, could still yield interesting results. Pingala is definitely strong but he might not always be the best early pick.

    I think it'll come down to the factors you mentioned. Looking forward to finding all the combinations :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
    Kmart_Elvis likes this.
  7. Ivan Hunger

    Ivan Hunger Chieftain

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    Perhaps the real question should be whether making the early game "duller" is actually a bad thing?

    After all, one man's "duller" is another man's "less stressful".
     
    Fluphen Azine likes this.
  8. darkace77450

    darkace77450 Chieftain

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    I love the changes to Pingala . The game has too few reasons to grow large cities right now, so more promotions like this (Faith for Moshka, etc) would be welcome in my book.
     
    Kmart_Elvis likes this.
  9. Ziad

    Ziad Warlord

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    He still gives the % as the opener.
     
  10. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    I think the balance is where it should be. Certain civs like Ottomans would be best served getting a different governor. Same with Korea (who won't need to depend on Pingala science, or even culture that much). Pingala will help civs like Mali and Phoenicia to "stay in the game" until they can get the things their empires excel at up and running.
     
  11. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Warlord Supporter

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    I think they could do more to buff some of the other governors.
    • Moksha, as was suggested above, could include Great Prophet Points as part of his opener.
    • Victor could include a bonus towards building Walls as part of his opener.
    • Reyna's gold from foreign trade routes aspect of her opener could be changed to bonus yields from trade routes originating out of her city.
    That would help make the allocation of early governor titles even more interesting.
     
    Kjimmet, Seek, SammyKhalifa and 2 others like this.
  12. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    It's more Magnus than anything, and finding cultural CS is mostly luck anyways.
     
  13. Pietato

    Pietato Chieftain

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  14. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    The option of having Pingala will make it less of a hassle chasing culture early game, although you’ll still want early culture to get to your titles.

    I don’t know if this is a positive change or not. Pingala is a huge buff for high pop Civs like Khmer, and answers the question “what do I do with a high food Low production start”, but having Pingala as an option takes away some of the playing the map design and just makes the game less challenging overall.

    You can of course ignore Pingala, so he doesn’t need to become a crutch. But then you’re only facing challenges because you’re just ignoring the most efficient way forward.

    We’re always going to have this problem with Governors when the design of the game is that you get Governor titles largely without trying (via Civics tree) and have to spend them on, well, Governors. It means you have them in every game, regardless of what’s going on, and so are always looking at “do I buy 1, 2, or 3 Governors and or two promotions”, rather than having any real trade off between investing in governors or investing in something else.

    The balance tweaks to Governors are very welcome, and make them way more interesting. But FXS really need to tinker with the Governor mechanics because they are just way to mono-dimensional.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019 at 9:22 AM
    Fluphen Azine likes this.
  15. Pietato

    Pietato Chieftain

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    This is nonsensical.
     
    Ivan Hunger likes this.
  16. TomKQT

    TomKQT Chieftain

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    I kinda agree with this. The problem is that governors are a pure bonus, there is no downside. Well, I don't count as a downside the fact that you can have the bonus only in one city at one time, because without governors you get no bonus, with governors you get some bonus in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 cities (or even more - some effects have area impact), which is always at least the same as without them (if the governor is badly placed), or better.
     
  17. RealHuhn

    RealHuhn Chieftain

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    I'm definitely going to try Pingala -> Moksha. Rushbuying districts for like 250 faith each seems insanely broken to me xD
     
  18. Canadian Bluebeer

    Canadian Bluebeer Chieftain

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    Magnus to grow the capital, and of course, no pop settlers.
    Amani once I find Auckland. (I LOVE the bonus for sea resources)
    The rest as required.

    That may change of course, have to see.
     
  19. homan1983

    homan1983 Chieftain

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    No, for too many reasons that I don't really have time to delve into. But the main ones in a few words:

    - Makes a high population city more attractive than before, making food more valuable.

    - More options early game (district): You can now go Holy, Encampment without being gimped. And you can go culture and still have some science from pingala.

    - Closes the gap between science and non-science civs.
     
    treadwin likes this.
  20. steveg700

    steveg700 Warlord

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    Let me make it simpler:

    "The less you have of something you need, the more desperate you are for it. Inversely, the more you have, the less desperate you are. That you always want more isn't desperation, it's indulgence."

    Not sure how you could have trouble making sense of that. Personally, it seems a statement of the obvious.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019 at 11:12 AM

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