Has Pingala made the early game duller?

[anandus]

What you would be willing to do for five dollars is probably less than someone on the streets desperate for their next meal would do for the same amount. It just isn't going to make as big of an impact.

If you have a baseline reliable income, what once was a major advantage now becomes more of a nice option for a slight advantage.

Sure, but I don't think it'd matter much. I'll still scout, regardless of Pingala's upgrade.

 

[Casualty of war]

So instead of a +% Pingala will now give raw Culture and Science per Population? Dang, that's exploitable. Opens up some new possibilities to proceed through the ages and reshuffles the relative Civ strength, which is exactly what I hope for in an expansion.

 

[steveg700]

Sure, but I don't think it'd matter much. I'll still scout, regardless of Pingala's upgrade.

So will I. But it won't be the jackpot experience Victoria, the OP, was speaking of. Players will greedily take everything can get, but there's a difference between getting a sandwich when you're starving to death and getting a sandwich due to a gluttonous appetite. That is all.

 

[ChocolateShake]

I don't think so. I'm sure people will push Pingala as the meta because yields, but ultimately it depends on your strategy, the civilization, and the map.

Great post. Yup I think there could be unexplored potential there - getting Magnus would allow you to produce more settlers, and more cities + districts sooner could be just as viable or more powerful than getting Pingala up and running first, especially given the more exponential benefits of districts and cities. Pingala will certainly provide a good boost early on, but he might not be as essential a choice as we might think right now. It's certainly something where interesting alternatives could be revealed.

There could be a scenario where you could have 4 cities and Pingala giving you +8 culture by turn 50 (just random numbers), along with 2 theater squares, or you have 6 cities with Magnus having rushed theatre districts in 3 of them. Pingala would probably still have an edge in culture but Magnus would give you more options and a better ability to make use of the techs/civics you unlock, even though you could be slightly behind. Thinking in terms of optimal play a Magnus, or more specialized opening with other governor/civ combinations, could still yield interesting results. Pingala is definitely strong but he might not always be the best early pick.

I think it'll come down to the factors you mentioned. Looking forward to finding all the combinations

 

[Ivan Hunger]

Perhaps the real question should be whether making the early game "duller" is actually a bad thing?

After all, one man's "duller" is another man's "less stressful".

 

[darkace77450]

I love the changes to Pingala . The game has too few reasons to grow large cities right now, so more promotions like this (Faith for Moshka, etc) would be welcome in my book.

 

[Ziad]

So instead of a +% Pingala will now give raw Culture and Science per Population? Dang, that's exploitable. Opens up some new possibilities to proceed through the ages and reshuffles the relative Civ strength, which is exactly what I hope for in an expansion.

He still gives the % as the opener.

 

[Disgustipated]

I think the balance is where it should be. Certain civs like Ottomans would be best served getting a different governor. Same with Korea (who won't need to depend on Pingala science, or even culture that much). Pingala will help civs like Mali and Phoenicia to "stay in the game" until they can get the things their empires excel at up and running.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I think the balance is where it should be. Certain civs like Ottomans would be best served getting a different governor. Same with Korea (who won't need to depend on Pingala science, or even culture that much). Pingala will help civs like Mali and Phoenicia to "stay in the game" until they can get the things their empires excel at up and running.

I think they could do more to buff some of the other governors.

• Moksha, as was suggested above, could include Great Prophet Points as part of his opener.
• Victor could include a bonus towards building Walls as part of his opener.
• Reyna's gold from foreign trade routes aspect of her opener could be changed to bonus yields from trade routes originating out of her city.

That would help make the allocation of early governor titles even more interesting.

 

[Archon_Wing]

It's more Magnus than anything, and finding cultural CS is mostly luck anyways.

 

[Pietato]

No.

 

[acluewithout]

The option of having Pingala will make it less of a hassle chasing culture early game, although you’ll still want early culture to get to your titles.

I don’t know if this is a positive change or not. Pingala is a huge buff for high pop Civs like Khmer, and answers the question “what do I do with a high food Low production start”, but having Pingala as an option takes away some of the playing the map design and just makes the game less challenging overall.

You can of course ignore Pingala, so he doesn’t need to become a crutch. But then you’re only facing challenges because you’re just ignoring the most efficient way forward.

We’re always going to have this problem with Governors when the design of the game is that you get Governor titles largely without trying (via Civics tree) and have to spend them on, well, Governors. It means you have them in every game, regardless of what’s going on, and so are always looking at “do I buy 1, 2, or 3 Governors and or two promotions”, rather than having any real trade off between investing in governors or investing in something else.

The balance tweaks to Governors are very welcome, and make them way more interesting. But FXS really need to tinker with the Governor mechanics because they are just way to mono-dimensional.

 

[Pietato]

Having a reliable income means you don't scrape and claw anymore. It stops being a desperate scramble and becomes more akin to self-indulgence.

This is nonsensical.

 

[TomKQT]

I think that governors overall made the game both duller and more complicated without any substantial increase in depth or added strategic value. It increases the skill ceiling (as you are forced to plan and execute governor rotations with precision) but it doesn’t make the game more strategic or interesting.

I kinda agree with this. The problem is that governors are a pure bonus, there is no downside. Well, I don't count as a downside the fact that you can have the bonus only in one city at one time, because without governors you get no bonus, with governors you get some bonus in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 cities (or even more - some effects have area impact), which is always at least the same as without them (if the governor is badly placed), or better.

 

[RealHuhn]

I'm definitely going to try Pingala -> Moksha. Rushbuying districts for like 250 faith each seems insanely broken to me xD

 

[Canadian Bluebeer]

Magnus to grow the capital, and of course, no pop settlers.
Amani once I find Auckland. (I LOVE the bonus for sea resources)
The rest as required.

That may change of course, have to see.

 

[homan1983]

Will Pingala made the early game duller

No, for too many reasons that I don't really have time to delve into. But the main ones in a few words:

- Makes a high population city more attractive than before, making food more valuable.

- More options early game (district): You can now go Holy, Encampment without being gimped. And you can go culture and still have some science from pingala.

- Closes the gap between science and non-science civs.

 

[steveg700]

This is nonsensical.

Let me make it simpler:

"The less you have of something you need, the more desperate you are for it. Inversely, the more you have, the less desperate you are. That you always want more isn't desperation, it's indulgence."

Not sure how you could have trouble making sense of that. Personally, it seems a statement of the obvious.

 

[ExemplarVoss]

The problem is it doesn't apply to the situation. Having more culture is better than less, as you go through the civic tree faster.

It is not relevant to having half a sandwich or 12 sandwiches for lunch. The faster you get to key civics, the better off you are, whether you are aiming for more food and extra builder charges, culture districts, or cheaper, faster military.

 

[Pietato]

Let me make it simpler:

"The less you have of something you need, the more desperate you are for it. Inversely, the more you have, the less desperate you are. That you always want more isn't desperation, it's indulgence."

Not sure how you could have trouble making sense of that. Personally, it seems a statement of the obvious.

Self-indulgence? Completely nonsensical.

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