Heart of Destiny

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Wow lord_graywolfe, thankyou for the long well thought-out response..

Lets see:

1. Good idea, makes sense too, since the chinese discovered gunpowder by playing around alchemy-wise(someone was trying to discover the elixir of immortality)

2. Ballooning is a good idea too..

3. What diplomatic thing should be moved?

4. Good idea...me like...Navies.. Don't know if it would work though, since Naval units, I don't think, can be loaded..not sure though..I hope it works

5. Hmmm...might be possible, I will look into that canal idea..

6. Well, in the future, the futuristc subs don't have invisibility. The reason for this is that sensor systems exist in my fictional futuristic universe.. there is no argueing with the Triton's ability to store two nukes...

7. No problem. I want to slow down the middle ages next, so you won't have to upgrade Grenadiers so soon, or Frigates.

About the bomber and Guerilla ideas: I have Medival Infantry upgrade to Grenadiers now. Any ideas on some sort of prequisor to the Guerilla? Maybe some resistance/Partizan guy?

I have some new lines already btw, I have the Gatling Gun(hurry up HT..please) line, which eventually upgrades to the TOW Infantry, and I have a new line which upgrades from the Explorer unit, starting with the Hot Air Balloon.

I also have World War era Cavalry(for civs that need a fast unit that don't have resources, however they are inferior to all tanks, and they are useless against Machine Guns)

 

[tjedge1]

There can be naval armies, but the AI doesn't understand them. THe canal idea is impossible with teh Civ3 engine. It's been tried. You'd have to allow roads to build in water, which you can, but the AI again doesn't understand this. If your not worried about the AI then both of these can be done.

 

[lord_graywolfe]

3. What diplomatic thing should be moved?

well what i was thinking was adding a diplomat unit similar to what was used in call to power. it could be added in either education or printing press or even make a tech just for it. the cool thing about acutually having them as a unit was it took time for contact everyone but you could also see everything they were doing as you walked along and you couldnt kick out someones diplomat without starting a war so they made great early spies. spies were also an acutal unit in call to power you walked them over to the spot you wanted to check out and could spy steal or start an uprising, all depended on what you wanted. i found this alot more fun than just clicking a button. they also help in spoting slaver units which you couldnt see, your people would just start disappearing.

About the bomber and Guerilla ideas: I have Medival Infantry upgrade to Grenadiers now. Any ideas on some sort of prequisor to the Guerilla? Maybe some resistance/Partizan guy?

a partizan unit would be cool but there are probally already enough ground units, if you add to many they may not get around to using them. could make the minuteman unit upgrade to guerilla as they were one of the worlds first guerilla units. the bezerker before upgraded to guerilla do they still do that? also i noticed that the pikeman upgrades to grenadier and skips the musket. any reason for this? the crossbow man could also upgrade to the guerilla as they are a offensive unit. are you going to have the redcoats upgrade to the doughboy since the redcoats seem to be a early amphib unit.

I have some new lines already btw, I have the Gatling Gun(hurry up HT..please) line, which eventually upgrades to the TOW Infantry, and I have a new line which upgrades from the Explorer unit, starting with the Hot Air Balloon.

I also have World War era Cavalry(for civs that need a fast unit that don't have resources, however they are inferior to all tanks, and they are useless against Machine Guns)

those sound pretty cool. i had wondered about the introduction of the gatling gun before. maybe someday we can figure out a way to introduce a gunslinger unit too lol. they kind skip over that whole era in the game, the wild west, frontiersmen, buffalo soldiers and such

i havent checked this yet but i always thought the cav units should upgrade to tanks as they are the next generation flanking units. may split them off again after the WWII era with the intro of air cav. ever thought about bringing in the hover craft, i mean we use those now as light attack/transport craft. im ex navy and call tell you all about the Hellfire and Peguases craft and how awsome they are .

 

[King Coltrane]

i think that teh berserk should upgrade to the marine (or if we have like a colonial marine, then to that), medieval infantry should not upsgrade to geurillas, think about it, would the US WW2 Infantry upgrade to the type of guerillas in vietnam? NO! lol. infantry is infantry and as such i say make it warrior -> sword -> med. inf. -> grenadier. etc. basically make sure you have a def. infantry line and an offense one. med inf. would go to a more advanced infantry. etc.guerilla should just start its own line. id say its stats would be (given a 6/10/1 infantry) 8/8/1 ATAR -1 hp, HN and have it go from there

and i say no for the navies, it would just CRUSH the ai.

 

[tjedge1]

THere can be a type of guerilla unit in the early stages, like make scouts->explorer->guerilla. Not sure if that helps but that would be more my thinking of the guerilla.

 

[lord_graywolfe]

well the guerilla unit is an offensive infantry unit. before the offensive infantry stopped at the swordman. they added the medeval infantry as the next upgrade for offensive infantry then guerilla then TOW the longbow also upgrades to guerilla in the expansion. it makes sense to have the offensive infantry unit line. i think the minutemen or something similar would make a good early unit for the offensive line. i think it should stick pretty much to how it was. pikeman to musketman to rifleman, which was a defense infantry but now has a 7 attack instead of a 2 attack kinda taking it out of the defensive line, then infantry. the offensive line should be medevial infantry, man at arms, grenadier, guerilla they are all offensive units. i agree the bezerker should upgrade to the doughboy. still think the longbow/ crossbow should upgrade on the offensive infantry line.

and the WWII marines and other special units were the start of the special forces which use guerilla tactics even before korea.

 

[lord_graywolfe]

hey Geddon i was thinking about the infantry thing. what if instead of trying to cram all those units into 2 lines you make a third. there can be a defense line.
spearman(1/2)--pikeman(1/3)--musketman(2/4)--rifleman(3/6)--infantryman(6/10) and on up to the new ones you added.

offensive line.
warrior(1/1)--swordman(3/2)--medievalinfantry(4/2)--man-at-arms(5/2)--archer(2/1)--ranger(3/1)--crossbow(4/1)--man-at-arms(5/2)-- gatling gun(6/3)--machine gunner(8/4)--tow infantry(14/10) and then to a new one like lazer sniper.

elite forces.
start a new unit at bronze working. it could be the legion for everyone and give rome another unique unit or just come up with another name for it. also i did a little checking and the term guerilla fighter goes back to the Incans so we could introduce the guerilla fighter earlier.

legion(2/2)--guerilla(3/3)--grenedier(5/[2]5)--commando(7/[4]7)--special forces(12/[6]12) and then upto the power armor like the marines and paratroopers. add the defending bomabardment like the archers and guerillas have now to give people a reason to use them. probally give the special forces air drop too.

you could add the guerilla at feudalism and the commando where the guerilla was as the term commando didnt start untill WWII.

just a thought on it

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Hmmm...I like your ideas guys..

Ok, I'll try to cover all the ground lines here:

Defensive:

Spearman...Pikeman...Musketman...Grenadier...Rifleman....Infantry...GI...Shadow Infantry(also known as Objective Force Warriors)...Laser Trooper

Offensive(Melee):

Warrior...Swordsman...Medival Infantry...Man-At-Arms...(Upgrades to Grenadier)

Offesive(Missile):

Archer...Ranger...Crossbowman...Partizan...Guerilla...Angel(A new unit)...Archangel(another new unit)

Marines:

Beserk(Vikings) or Raider(Haida)...Continental Marines...Doughboy...Marine...Power Armor

Paratroopers:

Paratrooper...Modern Paratrooper...Special Forces...Sentinel(A new unit)

Scouts:

Scout...Explorer...War Balloon...Zepplin...Huey...Apache...Predator...Hunter Killer

Cavalry(Lancers):

Horseman...Special(For Romans, China, Korea, Greece, Japan)...Knight...Lancer...Armored Car

Cavalry(Ranged):

(Upgrades from Chariot)...Curassier...Cavalry...Modern Cavalry...Tank(then to Modern Armor and then Futuristic Tanks and eventually Mecha)

Special Infantry:

Gatling Gun...Machine Gun...Tow Solder...Blaster Infantry(a new unit)


Greywolf...I salute you..

I would be glad to interduce a Hovercraft line, although I admit my knowledge is lacking...

 

[King Coltrane]

NO WAIT!!!! listen to my idea! i was typing it 2 days ago but there was a power surge qand i couldnt get back online. anyway here it is:

Techs:

Absolutism: requires military tradition, not required for era advance, gives Absolute Monarchy, which has better military support than monarchy and slightly better economy.

Separation of Powers: put it where democracy is and make democracy require this tech. should give Constitution Monarchy, which has better military support than a republic, and monarchy, though not as good as Abs. monarch, and much better econ. than a monarchy or an abs. monarchy

ok, now for the ALL NEW GUERILLA LINE!!!!:

ok, Barbarian(or Militia, either works) (2/2/1, ATAR, HN, +0HP, no resource, pillage, enslaves to Barb./Militia, comes with militarism) -> Resistor (4/4/1, ATAR, HN, +0HP, no resource, pillage, enslaves to Resistor, comes with gunpowder) -> Partisan (6/6/1, ATAR, HN, +0HP, no resource, pillage, stealth attack vs. basic ground units, including cavalry, enslaves to Partisan, comes with nationalism) -> Guerilla (8/8/1, ATAR, HN, +1HP, no resource, pillage, stealth attack vs. basic ground units, including cavalry and troop transports, enslaves to Guerilla, comes with Guerilla Warfare) -> Insurgent (12/12/1, ATAR, HN, +1HP, no resource, pillage, stealth attack vs. basic ground units, including cavalry, troop transports, and tanks, enslaves to Insurgent, comes with Globalism) -> "Space Gunman" or something (20/20/1, ATAR, HN, +2HP, no resource, pillage, stealth attack vs. basic ground units, including cavalry , troop transports, tanks, and Mechs, enslaves to "Space Gunman", comes with Laser Weaponry)

So the line is :

Barbarian -> Resistor -> Partisan -> Guerilla -> Insurgent -> "Space Gunman" (-> Gundam, though not upgradable, come on, would it not be cool to have this unit in the line of guerilla to counter the veritechs?!)

now, change the stats of Infantry to 10/8/1, GI to 14/10/1, Shadow Infantry to 17/12/1, and Laser Inf. should be 24/22/1

this will make the game more fun and dynamic

Also, have crossbowman upgrade to Grenadier

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Great ideas Coltrane...fantastic even.

Lets see: For the Barbarian, I could use one of the many units done by Kinboat or Utahjazz methinks. For the Resister, I will use Kinboat's Resister unit, and for the Partizan, I think that the gun version of the same unit works.

As for the Space Gunman...I have a unit called an Angel, done by Kinboat. Its a female Guerilla of the future, and becomes availilbe with Automated Transportation in the Future Era. This in turn will upgrade to the Archangel with Neural Interface, and will be the ultimate unit of this line.

As for something to counter the Veritech, it won't be nearly as powerful as it was in the old mod.

 

[King Coltrane]

thanks for the compliments sword!! i like your angel and archangel as the ultimate in the line, but how about put in a small/great wonder that produces a Gundam every X turns just for fun? and have that come at like the last tech. (its a fun game, lets make it more fun!)

one more idea, remember what i said about the Crusading Orders tech? well, have the small wonder "Crusades" build a Crusader (5/3/1, same as standard one) but also keep in Knights Templar and have it add 5% interest (to represent the vast funds this order brought in) as well as produce a "Templar Knight" (7/4/2) to distinguish this wonder as something better and worth building... if you can.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Maybe...although I currently have the Templar as one of the Israeli UU(They protected Jereasalem, which is what made the order famaos and powerful)

I like your Gundam idea. Keep the ideas coming..

(BTW Coltrane....I am still up for that game if your interested....PM me)

 

[lord_graywolfe]

i like that guerilla line King sounds like it would work well and the new goverments would be a great addition.

glad you like some of the ideas Geddon ill keep trying to come up with more. i was thinking that you might also want to have the redcoats upgrade in the marine line since they can attack from sea.

something else which i dont know if it is possible. the barbarians we face at the start of the game are better now as they get more than just the standard warrior and the pirate flagship is major pain early on. what if we made them a bit more than annoying. give them units equal to the age we are in to make them tougher. maybe change thier name to pirates for the middle ages and mercs or terroist for the rest of the game. as terroist they could pop up in your country at anytime even after all the land is ocupied. they still shouldnt be able to destroy a nation but they could cause a few problems to make you think a bit.

 

[vbraun]

something else which i dont know if it is possible. the barbarians we face at the start of the game are better now as they get more than just the standard warrior and the pirate flagship is major pain early on. what if we made them a bit more than annoying. give them units equal to the age we are in to make them tougher. maybe change thier name to pirates for the middle ages and mercs or terroist for the rest of the game. as terroist they could pop up in your country at anytime even after all the land is ocupied. they still shouldnt be able to destroy a nation but they could cause a few problems to make you think a bit.

This is not possible

 

[King Coltrane]

yeah, sadly its not... maybe in cIV lol.

as for Templars... thats fine, it could be Teutonic Knights then, the name isnt too important, just the idea of having this super elite knight unit come from the wonder that is better than the standard knights, or the crusaders from the small wonders

Also, i dont know if i said this before, but make "economics" into "free market economics" and make it require Mercantilism AND either Democracy or Separation of Powers, though i think the former is better

 

[lord_graywolfe]

oh well just an idea lol.

how about spy planes and AWACs those would be cool for recon.

you could add another tech after military traditions, miltary tatics. you have naval tatics already but this would be for land units only, you could add in an air tatics later if you wanted. make it a requirement for amphious tech and maybe put in a military recon unit that can sneak around. or course if they get caught it would be automatic war.

hmmm you know King you could also make that free market economics a prereq for the stock exchange to be built

 

[tjedge1]

Hey Sword. You using the new techno-angel in your mod?

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Yes I am Tjedge...

Wolf: What was that you said about Hovercrafts earlier?

 

[King Coltrane]

i agree, thats a good idea wolfe!

 

[lord_graywolfe]

well you might add hover crafts. the one we currently use is know as the Hellfire. its a light assualt/transport. its fast and manuverable. across land like open plains or a road it can do around 100mph. the rougher the land the slower it becomes and mountains just arent possible. on water its about 120 knots unless the sea is rough. it can transport 2 squads of men has 4 20mm chainguns, 1 40mm main gun and 1 sam launcher. its armor is about equal to the bradley so it wont stop anything big. they are very itimdating when coming at you cause they are very very loud. they are the new amphib units in the navy but becaue they dont transport many people landing craft are still used too. the other craft i meantioned was the pegasus. its not a hover craft though its a hydrafoil the next generation pt boat.