Hello new to game, could use a few tips

[Vreeb]

I was turned onto this jewel of a game by a friend and I have to say, it is so much fun! At first my civilization was consistently outpaced even of chieftain level, but reading all the guides on this site have been a huge help.

I've even been bold enough to try out Emperor level, and was subsequently mangled when I tried to be a peaceful builder, first of all my neighbors demanded tribute regularly and my borders basically meant nothing to them as they marched armies across to get at each other, I was wary of asking them to leave because I didn't want to risk them declaring war when they have some 20+ knights all over my territory. My culture kept pace, and being very thorough and trading with each AI kept my civilization happy and up to date, despite my science output being no match at all (It takes me nearly 20 turns to get some late Middle Age techs, with science at 100%.)
So, all in all, I thought I was holding my own until the Germans decide my land would look better if it was theirs and in the initial attack six of my cities fell including my capital, the token defenders I had there were no match for hordes of cavalry (I was still phasing out pikemen.) and now other nations that I thought were on good terms with me decide to carve up poor little Sumeria.

Anyway after that game I was frustrated as it took me five hours to get to the point and all I had to show was a small collection of scattered cities, and impending doom coming from all sides, but it was engaging and I found out how I REALLY want to play this game. I don't want to be the passive builder who is at the mercy of predatory neighbors, I want to be the bully on the block. I want to make demands of other nations and have them fear my country.

So I restarted Emperor level Pangaea with 60% water and raging barbarians (mainly to slow my rivals down) and picked the Japanese (Militaristic is an obvious choice for my goals and Religious so its easier to force build temples so I can keep the population in line. So far it has been much better, I encountered the Scandinavians and in 20 turns I had 4 archers knocking on Bergen and they immediately decided to give me three techs and 2 slave workers. Much better then my last game indeed...

TL;DR I just got Civ 3 and expansions and it is awesome.

Now some quick questions:

When I capture workers do they cost me the same upkeep as normal workers?

How long will my population hold it against me for choosing to beat them down to build that temple a few turns sooner?

What is the best warmonger Civ? I like the Japanese but so far have only played 3 different Civs and only one militaristic one.

Thanks for any help in advance.

 

[vmxa]

Slaves have no support cost. I take it you mean you pop rushed a temple. I forget the length, it is either 10 or 20 turns. Someone will give us the answer, best to not do it, except in special cases as pop is power.

By expansion, do you mean PTW or Conquest? I guess Conquest, but the map size and type has an impact on the best civ. To war, it is the government that matters the most. You can warmonger with most any nation.

You can use Aztecs for very early rushes for instance. Early offensive UU's make for a good war nation. Military trait is not required for mongering, Hiawatha is a good example. Strong traits and a great early UU.

 

[Aabraxan]

Welcome to CFC, Vreeb!

I suspect that you've already located the War Academy, but in the event that you haven't, it's here. In particular, take a peek at Warmongering 101 - A Tactical Primer. It's a great article for the beginning bully on the block. Although, if you're up to emperor, I wouldn't exactly call you a beginner. You might also take a look at Monarch to Emperor: The Great Leap.

vmxa is right: militaristic isn't necessary for warmongering. I do like the militaristic trait, but I think I probably like it more than players better than myself. Yes, religious provides cheaper temples, but those really aren't necessary to warmonger. A good Rapid Expansion phase and a healthy dose of aggression will get you all of the luxuries you need. Some of my favorite warmongering tribes are: China, Rome, Maya, Iroquois, Celts. Some of those I like for their UU, some for their traits, some for both.

 

[Vreeb]

Welcome to CFC, Vreeb!

I suspect that you've already located the War Academy, but in the event that you haven't, it's here. In particular, take a peek at Warmongering 101 - A Tactical Primer. It's a great article for the beginning bully on the block. Although, if you're up to emperor, I wouldn't exactly call you a beginner. You might also take a look at Monarch to Emperor: The Great Leap.

vmxa is right: militaristic isn't necessary for warmongering. I do like the militaristic trait, but I think I probably like it more than players better than myself. Yes, religious provides cheaper temples, but those really aren't necessary to warmonger. A good Rapid Expansion phase and a healthy dose of aggression will get you all of the luxuries you need. Some of my favorite warmongering tribes are: China, Rome, Maya, Iroquois, Celts. Some of those I like for their UU, some for their traits, some for both.

Thanks for the advice! I pretty much skipped to emperor from chieftain emboldened by some strategies I saw on this site, so I don't think I am actually an emperor level player as I have yet to win on the level but I do enjoy the challenge as Chieftain was boring after I figured out how the game worked.

Well once again my initial success led to abysmal failure as I declared war on the Russians who quickly turned out to be way more developed then I had anticipated, the AI always seem to be a step ahead of me.

After considering some better tactics I decided to be the Zulu, the expansionist trait is invaluable to a player like me who is still having trouble keeping up in tech, and the Impi is actually pretty cool, in my last campaign my stacks of Archers and Swordsmen were getting picked apart, and with an Impi's movement of 2 he can be pretty effective as a screening force because of his ability to move and fortify giving him a nice little defense bonus, not to mention he can flee if its too much.

 

[Aabraxan]

If the AI is consistently out-expanding you in the early game, you might also want to check out Cracker's Opening Plays. A strong REX phase means more cities, more unit support, more gold, more more.

Also, I noticed that you set the game for pangaea. You may or may not be aware of this, but by doing that, you sped up the tech pace. By putting most (if not all) civs on the same landmass, you ensured that they would make contact with each other earlier. That means that they started trading techs earlier. If you're having trouble keeping up in techs, try continents or archipelago maps.

Trading techs: The AI civs are going to trade techs as soon as they can. They're going to trade with each other, whether you get in on that or not. Research left to right, rather than top to bottom. That will improve your chances of getting a monopoly on a tech, which you can then trade around to several civs, for whatever techs and gold they've got.

 

[timerover51]

Also, I noticed that you set the game for pangaea. You may or may not be aware of this, but by doing that, you sped up the tech pace. By putting most (if not all) civs on the same landmass, you ensured that they would make contact with each other earlier. That means that they started trading techs earlier. If you're having trouble keeping up in techs, try continents or archipelago maps.

Trading techs: The AI civs are going to trade techs as soon as they can. They're going to trade with each other, whether you get in on that or not. Research left to right, rather than top to bottom. That will improve your chances of getting a monopoly on a tech, which you can then trade around to several civs, for whatever techs and gold they've got.

I ran into the same problem when I started playing the unmodified game, which is why I switched to huge continent or archipelago maps with less than the maximum number of AI civilizations. That spread them out and slowed them down to where I had no problems keeping up with them in tech advances. It also slows down running into them and them bothering you, so you have a chance to get well established.

Aabraxan, so my tech advance strategy of heading for the important techs for ocean advancement, especially in the Middle Ages is the best one to use? That shoots me from left to right pretty fast.

 

[Spoonwood]

Aabraxan, so my tech advance strategy of heading for the important techs for ocean advancement, especially in the Middle Ages is the best one to use? That shoots me from left to right pretty fast.

This could make sense in terms of general game strategy, but in terms of picking up the tech pace or in terms of getting monopoly techs, I'd say no. In the middle ages my tech research path usually goes (Monotheism if necessary)-Theology-Education-Banking if I don't have Gunpowder yet-Chemistry if I do have Gunpowder or after Banking-Physics-Theory of Gravity-Magnetism and then Metallurgy if needed. I trade for the rest along the way. The AI heavily favors researching Astronomy and Navigation, so why go there? Sometimes I'll research Astronomy myself for Cope's, but more often than not that doesn't make sense. That's for a research type of game or a 20k. In a more war-oriented game I'll probably just go to Military Tradition and then shut research off except for scientists.

Vreeb,

Aabraxan has a point about pangea... but there exists another way to get a better tech position than switching map type... increase map size and number of opponents. On a Huge pangea map with 15 opponents, if you really go out and get those contacts earlier, you'll often find tribes on one side of the world don't know tribes on the other, and that gives you plenty of trading opportunities for techs. I think I've managed to trade for almost all ancient techs, save maybe Masonry and Ceremonial Burial or something like that, via Literature and having all the contacts this way before.

 

[Aabraxan]

Aabraxan, so my tech advance strategy of heading for the important techs for ocean advancement, especially in the Middle Ages is the best one to use? That shoots me from left to right pretty fast.

Hard for me to say, timerover51. The game that you play (large, lotsawater maps & space race), is very different from my game (standard-sized maps, military victories). Frankly, space victories are very rare for me. Even when I start a game with a space race in mind, I frequently get bored and turn it into a domination victory.

The AI tends to research top to bottom, before moving left to right, so moving left to right increases the chances of getting monopoly techs. It seems that I disagree with Spoonwood on the monopoly tech point. That increases the chances for SGLs and helps the human player with having some trade bait on hand. As you don't trade with the AI much, that aspect doesn't help you.

In the Middle Ages, I tend to grab Feudalism, then perhaps Mono & Chivalry (depending on the game), then cruise down the lower half of the tech tree to Military Tradition. If I want upper half techs, I'll either trade for it or beat it out of someone.

 

[timerover51]

The AI tends to research top to bottom, before moving left to right, so moving left to right increases the chances of getting monopoly techs. It seems that I disagree with Spoonwood on the monopoly tech point. That increases the chances for SGLs and helps the human player with having some trade bait on hand. As you don't trade with the AI much, that aspect doesn't help you.

Oddly, enough, techs are one thing that I do manage to trade with the AI, that and maps. It is resources that I cannot trade for. Normally, I trade a tech for all the gold that the AI has in their treasury, and maybe a world map, to see if they know where someone is that I do not.

In the Middle Ages, I tend to grab Feudalism, then perhaps Mono & Chivalry (depending on the game), then cruise down the lower half of the tech tree to Military Tradition. If I want upper half techs, I'll either trade for it or beat it out of someone.

That pretty much is what I do, but go for the Navigation techs along with Military Tradition, and then finish the lower half of the tech tree first. After that is done, the top priority is Economics.

I must admit that I keep thinking about posting a map challenge on the forum with some sort of a cash prize for a game with NO TECH TRADING, and see how some of the experts do on it.

 

[Spoonwood]

No tech trading could make things difficult... especially at higher levels where techs cost more. On the lower half of the medieval tech tree...
Feudalism-It gives them a government and a new unit. The AIs WILL research this first if no one has any free techs, and even if they have Monotheism and Theology they STILL will almost invariably research it. And I mean *like* all of them. So, 3 or so of them get at the same time, and you have a monopoly tech and trade for it if need be.
Engineering-doesn't seem all too favored, and definitely less favored than Monotheism. Religious tribes tend to go for Monotheism.
Invention-Heavily favored by the AIs due to Leo's.
Chivalry-Heavily favored by the AIs due to the availability of a unit. I believe militaristic AIs more so.
Gunpowder-It reveals a resource AND has a *defensive* unit attached to it. What's the AIs first tech to research usually in the ancient age? Oftentimes it's Bronze Working. What about in the industrial age? Nationalism. In the middle ages? Feudalism. Similarly, the AIs heavily favor Gunpowder.
Chemistry-the AI sometimes ignores this since it's just a tech. Other times not so much.
Metallurgy-They usually seem to go here quicker than the ToG or Magnetism path, but it's not so clear cut.
Military Tradition-Once the AIs have Metallurgy they usually seem to funnel here, but it can become tricky, because if they have both Printing Press and Banking, they'll also seem to funnell to Democracy.

Overall I'd guess most games more like this if the human player didn't research...

Available techs for AIs to research
Monotheism
Feudalism
Engineering
All or all but one pick Feudalism
Available techs 2
Monotheism
Engineering
Most pick Monotheism, someone (slow researcher?) might pick Engineering
Available techs 3
Theology
Chivalry
Engineering
Most pick Chivalry and Engineering finally gets learned... someone slowly researches Theology.
Available techs 4
Theology
Invention
Most pick Invention. Theology finally gets learned
Available techs 5
Education
Gunpowder.
Most pick Gunpowder.
Available techs 6
Education
Chemistry
Most pick Education.
Available techs 7
Printing Press
Music Theory
Banking
Astronomy
Chemistry
Anyone not already on Chemistry picks Astronomy
Available techs 8
Printing Press
Music Theory
Banking
Navigation
Chemistry
Chemistry might finally appear, most pick Navigation.
Available techs 9
Printing Press
Music Theory
Banking
Physics
Metallurgy
Music Theory, Printing Press, and Banking might start to show up... but most who got Chemistry and Navigation and weren't researching anything else start on Metallurgy.
Available techs 10
Democracy
Economics
Physics
Metallurgy/Military Tradition
Soon enough Democracy appears, and so on.
Admittedly that's a guess, but if you want to pick up the tech pace, it's generally best to try and figure out what the AIs will research next. Left-to-right works out as true to a certain extent, but I'd advise caution when generalizing that pattern. Even though it's not perfect, I'd recommend DaveMcW's list

 

[Vreeb]

Very good advice indeed, I have been aiming for less common techs, such as literature which the AI usually procrastinates on allowing me to grab it and trade it to all of them for other techs, gpt, etc.

But another area where I lack expertise is city placement, I can never quite be sure if where I am placing cities is actually a good spot, and how far apart cities need to be to strike a balance between size/production and efficiency. Early on i am tempted to do a CxxC type build so i can work every tile and churn out hordes of units, but later on when shield costs go up these small cities barely get past size 8 and its rare for any of them to produce more then 10 shields.

 

[TheOverseer714]

You could go CxxxC in your immediate core(first ring), loose CxxC in your second ring, tight CxxC out to 90% corrupt, and CxC in the 90% corrupt areas. Those spacings all have to be a little flexible to account for terrain considerations. A very general guide is to try to settle on rivers (free aqueducts), avoid being 1 tile off the sea, either be 2 tiles from sea or on the coast, avoid settliing on bonus tiles(cows, wheat, resources) and Bonus Grass, and last but not least... be flexible.

 

[Spoonwood]

If you're playing Conquests, forget city placement schemes. Place on the basis of terrain with your VC in mind. I particularly advise making sure that every tile *can* get worked at some point in the game. I believe settling on bonus grassland gives you the extra shield once you hit size 7. Many of the games in the HoF have good city placement.

 

[Aabraxan]

You could go CxxxC in your immediate core(first ring), loose CxxC in your second ring, tight CxxC out to 90% corrupt, and CxC in the 90% corrupt areas. Those spacings all have to be a little flexible to account for terrain considerations. A very general guide is to try to settle on rivers (free aqueducts), avoid being 1 tile off the sea, either be 2 tiles from sea or on the coast, avoid settliing on bonus tiles(cows, wheat, resources) and Bonus Grass, and last but not least... be flexible.

This is the way that I space cities in most games. You want to allow your core cities a little extra space to grow and then tighten up the spacing as cities are planted further from your capital. Once you get out into areas where they're 90% corrupt, they'll only produce 1 gold & 1 shield, anyway, so you might as well irrigate everything and hire specialists. The gold and beakers produced by specialists isn't affected by corruption.

If you're playing Conquests, forget city placement schemes. Place on the basis of terrain with your VC in mind. I particularly advise making sure that every tile *can* get worked at some point in the game. I believe settling on bonus grassland gives you the extra shield once you hit size 7. Many of the games in the HoF have good city placement.

I think Spoonwood's suggestion that you "forget city placement schemes" is a little bit strong. It's very handy, especially when you're first learning the game, to have a rule of thumb for city spacing in mind. I agree, however, that terrain trumps your spacing rule, and that you should space your cities with your VC in mind. As I said above, I generally use the same city spacing that Overseer mentioned, but if I have to push a city an extra tile over one way or the other to capture a lux or resource, or to settle on a river, that's what I do. Bear in mind that I usually play for military victories, so a tighter city spacing allows me to work all of my tiles earlier in the game.

One last point is that it's important to understand the "fat cross," which is the tiles actually available for a city to work. You may already understand this, and I hope you'll forgive me if I'm repeating what you already know. Anyway, each city can put citizens to work on tiles as follows:

UXXXU
XXXXX
XXCXX
XXXXX
UXXXU

Where:
U= unavailable tile -- nobody can work it
X = an available tile -- a citizen can work this tile
C = City square

If you place cities CxxxxC, there's no overlap, but every tile can be worked. At CxxC, there will be some overlap, but most cities will be able to grow to size 12, given sufficient food. Until either hospitals or Shakespeare's Theater, they can't grow past size 12, anyway. At anything larger than CxxxxC, there are tiles which nobody will ever be able to work, and those are wasted.

 

[Theov]

Now some quick questions:

When I capture workers do they cost me the same upkeep as normal workers?

They're called slaves and work at half the speed. (that's the bad part) They cost you nothing. (that's the awesome part)
Don't underestimate them. They save you; a peep, a foreign peep, work time, production of a worker time... etc. Slaves are good; half good.

How long will my population hold it against me for choosing to beat them down to build that temple a few turns sooner?

depends on the map size I've been told.
Think 10ish turns. Look it up, it's here.

What is the best warmonger Civ? I like the Japanese but so far have only played 3 different Civs and only one militaristic one.

Do you use the seas? If: be the Netherlands, the Vikes, the Byzantines with that woman leader.
No sea but something else? You could go foranything with the military trait.

Thanks for any help in advance.

Hammertime.

 

[Vreeb]

My conquest is coming along nicely, I am one of the major three powers now having wiped out the Scandinavians, Mayans and basically annexed China's core leaving them a few scattered cities beyond my attention, corruption is getting ridiculous in my rim cities and my forbidden palace is already placed, so I have limited options for dealing with that.

The problems I face now is that the Sumerians and Aztecs are huge and seem to be buddy and both have been demanding concessions from me, I swallowed my pride once but NO MORE, my forces consist of 4 different armies 1 with medieval infantry 3 with Samurai, and literally 100+ Samurai, but even with that my advisor says I am only average compared to both their militaries.

Ive been leaving cities safe inside my territories with 1 or no garrison and generally they are obsolete units like spearmen or in some cases even warrior leftovers. This is in the effort to push everything else to the frontlines, I've been building a string of forts around natural defensive areas (mountains and rivers) and founding buffer cities so cities I actually care about have a little insulation. Most of my cities follow the following build order, barracks, temple (If culture is needed for landgrab) and then Knight, after that I pretty much forget about them, even if it takes 12 turns to produce a knight in some of these cities I think I have around 50 now. The problem is I can't win a two front war and don't have any pull to play them against each other. I also lag a few tech behind as I have spotted some Caravels around and know I am nowhere near Astronomy yet.

Any tips on how to break out of this, the game will likely be decided in this next war.

 

[Spoonwood]

My advice:

Post a save.

 

[mythmonster2]

the "fat cross,"

UXXXU
XXXXX
XXCXX
XXXXX
UXXXU

Where:
U= unavailable tile -- nobody can work it
X = an available tile -- a citizen can work this tile
C = City square

That's in Civ 4. In Civ 3, its a fat X, like the fat cross, but sideways, so the second tile in each cardinal direction is unworkable, but every other two-tile combination is. (IE: N,NW; S,SE; W,NW)

 

[Aabraxan]

That's in Civ 4. In Civ 3, its a fat X, like the fat cross, but sideways, so the second tile in each cardinal direction is unworkable, but every other two-tile combination is. (IE: N,NW; S,SE; W,NW)

I don't have Civ4. I know that it lays out at an angle, but have you ever tried to draw that in a post?

 

[vmxa]

Vreeb

First post a save as was suggested. Next the adviser has very little in the way of an idea of relative strengths. If he thinks your are average, you are likely stronger than them.

Especially if you are able to out fight the AI, as most payers will.

"Ive been leaving cities safe inside my territories with 1 or no garrison and generally they are obsolete units like spearmen or in some cases even warrior leftovers. This is in the effort to push everything else to the frontlines, I've been building a string of forts around natural defensive areas (mountains and rivers) and founding buffer cities so cities I actually care about have a little insulation."

Fine, but I am not so fond of forts, unless I am sure they will have to attack there.

"Most of my cities follow the following build order, barracks, temple (If culture is needed for landgrab) and then Knight, after that I pretty much forget about them, even if it takes 12 turns to produce a knight in some of these cities I think I have around 50 now."

Don't worry about border expansion and skip the temple, unless happiness is required. You will likely run into problems with making units everywhere, in terms of unit support cost.

Make trebs and forget the barracks in some of those places. Make as many knights as you can afford and need and maybe a few more.

"The problem is I can't win a two front war and don't have any pull to play them against each other. I also lag a few tech behind as I have spotted some Caravels around and know I am nowhere near Astronomy yet."

I cannot really address this with out a save, but I would guess you could handle it. Be sure that you have roads to all coastal tiles and all towns. Out a few trebs or cats in places you could expect landings.

Station a knight in a few places to cover landings. Do you have the HE and the Pentagon finished? Add a 4th unit is you do. A knight in all the armies as they have a better defense the the other units in the armies.

Gather the forces to smash their towns, concentrate on one until you hurt them.