Help a simple noob?

[MasterOfNothing]

Hello all,

I recently started playing master of orion 2 and I have to say that I fell in love with this game's concept. However I cannot seem to win any battle against enemy ships/starbases. And I am playing on easy (I know..... ).

So what am I doing wrong? When the game starts I scout, colonize good planets and build up those planets. During that I research hydroponics first to make sure all planets get food, then I reseach class 1 shields, fusion beams, better armor and optronics computers.

Then I redesign all ships to have fusion beams and build a battleship ot two with some lower-tier ships. But when I try to fight against the enemy, my ships almost get insta-killed and I can barely even scratch the enemy.

What am I doing wrong? And please explain thoroughly, since I am new to this game.

thanks in advance!

Best regards,
Glenn (MasterOfNone)

 

[vmxa]

You did not give game settings or time frames, so hard to say. Here is a sample log from a game years ago I played.

Settings: Rep -GC -SD Uni (6) +P (3) Tol (10) Huge PreWarp Min Rich Age 6 players Impossible
(just notice 2/1/13 that one pick is not listed? Should have had LHW, too lazy to load save to check though).

T Sell barracks
3/5/0 start CB (colony Base)
R-freighter
T1 2/6/0
T5 2/5/1
T6 found Mentar I 0/1/0 housing, 2/6/0 start CB
T11 moved pop to HW 0/1/0, 2/3/4
T12 found Mentar II 0/1/0 housing, 0/1/0, 0/1/0, 3/1/5 start spy
T17 0/1/0, 0/1/0, 3/2/5 switch to freighter, move pop to HW
R-EC
T19 moved pop from I & II to HW
4/1/7 spy
T21 R-RL
T23 Commander Grum shows up
move pop 5/1/8
T26 move pop 5/1/9
T28 move pop 5/2/9
T29 R-std cells 5/1/10 switch to RL
buy RL on II, start on I
T30 II housing, buy RL on I
6/1/9 start spy
T31 Mentar I on housing 0/1/0
R-CS
T33 pop to HW 6/3/8
T34 R-hulls switch to scout (unarmmed, no comp) 6/1/11
T35 scout out, start CS
T36 7/11/1
T37 R-AF located Jacob
T38 Hired Emo, moved pop HW full 20/20 7/12/1
T40 0/1/0 0/1/1 8/12/0
T43 CS to Jacob, start freighter 8/3/9
T44 R-bio start AF on all
8/5/7 buy AF on II
T45 found Jacob II syart AF
II housing
T46 R-soil HW starts bio, buy AF on Jacob II
5/5/10
T47 Jacob II start RL
6/3/11 freighter I on housing
T49 start CS on HW
T51 move 2 to HW 6/5/11
T52 contact with Humans, located Mutatrix
T55 R-laser Jacob II start soil
Mentar I & II start bio
hw 6/12/4 switch to soil
T56 start CS on HW, stat SB on I
T57 R-Space Acad
T59 start spy on II
T60 start freighter, send CS to Mutatrix
T61 start CS on HW, spy on II
T62 R-n. scanner, start SA on II
T63 spy killed
T64 Jacob II start SB
Mentar I start SA
II start SB
found Mutatrix, start AF
T65 Mentar I start spy 0/2/3
HW start SA, buy AF on Mutatrix
cs to Jacob
T66 Hire Cyr
start CA (cruiser)
reinforced hull, no comp
nuke
nuke
nuke
6x nuke
T67 buy RL on Mutatrix
T68 buy AF on Jacob I
T69 CA to Mutatrix with Cyr
start freighter
start RL on Jacob I
T71 got Cache 100 on Irra
start SB on Mutatrix
T72 R-pods, Mentar II trade, send pop to Mutratrix
T73 CA to Mutatrix, start CA
T74 switch to CS, start soil on Jacob I
locate Trax
T76 start spy on Mentar I
R-f. beam
T77 pop to Mutatrix from Mentar II
start CS on HW
T79 start spy on Mentar I
T81 spy killed
R-armor
T82 cs to Trax, start cs
Jacob I housing
T83 found Trax III
T85 buy AF on Trax III
T86 R-shield, start cs on HW, cs to Trax
T87 contact Silicoids
updated CS with ARM,FST nukes via Pod
refit on Mutatrix
T90 R-drive
T96 R-battle scanner
T100 found Cursa
T101 Hire Grum, put 3 spies on Humans
cs to Cursa, start cs
buy AF on Cursa
R-fighter garrison (got scared)
T104 steal Fighter Bays
T106 start BB (battleship), buy AF on Cursa III
T107 R-robominer
start fighter garrison on Mutatrix & Cursa II
T112 steal Deuterium Cells
T114 refit scout with nukes and pod
steal Spaceport
R-merc missiles
T123 R-super computer
3 spies on Silicoids
Txxx R-Tele Training
steal Neutron Blaster from (coids)
start supers
T134 R-Stablizer
T138 R-Planetary Shields
T141 steal bomb (human)
T142 R-N. scanner, switch to Rad shields
T145 R-Terraform
T150 R-AMC start terraforming
T15x R-drive
T156 R-ADC
T159 R-Weather
reject Houri
T165 R-Cyber Link
T171 R-Ground Batteries
T174 R-Stock exchange
T176 found Artemis I
T177 R-autolab
steal Subspace (coids)
T180 found Artemis II & IV
T183 R-Stealth suit
T187 R-Pulson Missile
T189 steal phasor (coids)
T190 R-grav beam
T192 R-jump gate
T196 R-Planetary Construction (normally not chosen)
T199 R-Astro
T202 R-Zort
T205 R-interdictors
T207 steal olasma cannon (coids)
T208 R-robotic fac
T212 R-drive
T214 steal anti missile (coids)
T215 R-High Int
T219 R-class V
T221 steal antimatter bomb (human)
T223 R-Phasor rifle
T225 steal atmospheric renewer
T226 R-food replicators
need to refit BB, I have all tech from silicoids at this point
Humans have PP, Titan and Heavy Arm
T230 R-deep core
contact Meks


Just an fyi for reference. May give you some ideas to try.

 

[MasterOfNothing]

Thanks for the reply vmxa,

I have indeed not given any time frame whatsoever, my apologies. It was rather late when I wrote this .

The next game I will play, I'll keep track of the turns it takes for me to get everything done. And I'll have a look at your sample log to see whether I'm missing out on something important.

I'll let you know how it goes!

 

[neilkaz]

@ Glenn,

We'll give you plenty of help and soon you'll be stepping up in level.

From what you've written it sounds like you could use some help with your start up, and also some help with beam weaponry ships.

It sounds like you start "average" ie have two scouts and a colony ship and the very basic techs, whereas many of us here usually start pre-warp, but this won't change your start up that much. If ships as large as battleships (BB) are getting easily killed at easy diff, I suspect you're not close to quick enough in attacking the enemy and/or need to wait for better weapons.

Anyhow, please let us know exactly what race you're playing. At this point, I won't advise you about likely better custom races, but will help you start out better and faster with whatever race you're playing.

Rather than Optronic Computers which only add 25% to the Electronic comp's 25% get Research Labs instead and build them quickly on every planet to boost up your research abilities.

Lack of a good computer is always an issue for non-creatives since, Labs, Supercomps, and AutoLabs are basically must haves to greatly improve your tech rate.

This is a reason that I usually use missiles early and mid game. Computers are more of an issue if playing with ship initiative on since you often end up shooting and moving last. Sometime I can steal or trade for a good computer (trade if not repulsive).

However, and since you're using Fusion Beams, be sure to research Battle Scanners at the next tech level. They add +50 beam attack for a total of 75 added now (assuming the basic elec. comp). They also take up considerable space. You're starbases often can't hit anything much with beams in defense with just an Elec Comp unless you have Battle Scanners as well.

Make use of miniturization. As you continue to research more physics techs, you'll gradually miniturize both Fusion Beams and Battle Scanners. After adding two addition tech levels (finishing the 900 RP Neutrino Physics level) you can fully modify Fusion Beams and enveloping is a nice mod. Once you get to Subspace Comms, these weapons are very miniturized (there's a limit of 5 level of miniturization for weapons) and you shouldn't be suffering from CP issues and can support a big fleet.

Class 1 shields don't do very much except take space away that can be used for other weapons. The first really effective shield is class 3. (If you go Force Field techs instead, Mass Drivers are clearly my preferred alternative to Fusion Beams if not using missiles early on).

Anyhow...enuf for now..please tell us what race you play and if custom, give exact details.

.. neilkaz ..

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I agree with neilkaz, but I'd like to add that Fusion Beams aren't really that good unless they are enveloping and your enemies don't have better shields than Class I (and even then you'll have to get in close to use them effectively).
Better research Fusion Rifles and stick with lasers for the early phase. After you have researched Battle Scanners you have enough miniaturization for Lasers for the Auto Fire mod. Use laser with auto fire, continuous beams and no range dissipation and you'll be able to do a lot of damage at fairly long range until someone has Class III Shields or better.
I also recommend researching Waste Processors and using MIRV Nuclear Missiles. My early fleets are usually composed of Cruisers with lasers and Destroyers with MIRV nukes (2-3 destroyers for every cruiser) The destroyers only need two shots worth of ammnition. Fire them at the toughest target and retreat after the second turn and let the Cruisers take care of the rest.

Oh, and Battle Pods are a must have.

 

[neilkaz]

Interesting tip on the heavily mod lasers. I've almost always used Mass Drivers as early beam weapons if not doing my usual missiles, bcuz of no range dissipation for MD.

re: continuous, I think that just helps the weapon (your lasers) hit more often? Is it worth the 50% extra cost and space? Perhaps it is if all you have is the +25 computer combined with battle scanners.

Do you use mostly heavy lasers so you can stay way back, or do you use mostly normal ones and pack in more on the ship and also be able to shoot at missiles and fighters? I tend to go for mostly heavy beams and less worry about enemy shielding and hope to shoot them a couple times from long range until I get hit hard by something.

re: pollution processors. These are a very nice building, but you have to forgo Merc missiles. EMG Mercs are a must for killing the Guardian as nukes don't do much damage to it. However, perhaps you can obtain Mercs some other way, or obtain Pulsons and get the N armor tech level and MIRV them. Or you can wait a bit and kill the Guardian with higher end beams like Gravitons reduced a couple times.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

The 25% extra accuracy is worth the 50% cost and size increase for me. I get Battle Scanners but rarely research better targeting computers (steal or trade yes, but not research). The difference is definitely noticeable during combat. I'll sometimes use Mass Drivers, but I'd rather get ECM (unless I'm playing a creative race of course)
As for heavy, that depends on several factors. If I see that the enemy has powerful low or mid-range weapos or Class III Shields I'll use heavy lasers and some point defense. If not I'll stick with 'normal' modded lasers as they have a better damage/size ratio and can also target fighters and missiles.
Merculites may be useful against the Guardian, but nukes have a better damage/size ratio against enemies without superior shields and I think the extra production capacity from pollution processors is overall the better choice. If I can't trade or steal merculite missiles I use mirv pulsons or advanced beam weapons against the Guardian.

 

[MasterOfNothing]

Wow, thanks for all the tips!

I have been trying different things, listening to all your tips.
I've also changed my race, I usually played human but I now have begun to play Klackon.
I've also stopped going for fusion beams and went for Mass drivers and they are a world of difference!

I also found a mistake completely on my part: I made way too many colony ships. Now I build outposts and a bit later the real colonies.

And then I also listened to the tip of making research centers, thanks a lot for that one! Well I did not make research centers, but supercomputers. But it's basically the same idea, isn't it? They really made my technology boom.

With all those adjustments I was able to actually win a war!

I'm still trying to perfect things, since it's still not going as good as I would want but it's getting there.

Especially when I redesign a ship, any general tips for not creating a bad ship?

Oh and yes, I play on average (2 scouts and a colony ship).

 

[neilkaz]

Here's a great tutorial, based mainly on humans vs humans but quite applicable to humans vs computers.

http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005/03/master-of-orion-ii-strategy-guide.html

When I applied much of this, I learned to crush the computer AI's at Impossible difficulty when using good custom races and as I learned and experienced more, I could beat the computers with the better standard races and now can win just about every game with even the weaker standard races playing Huge/Impos/8 player.

I haven't found it useful to take up the extra space to make beam weapons able to shoot from a 360 arc vs AI's since rarely will they get their ships behind your's unlike a human who make have aug. engines and do so. I jusy use default forward arcs and by the time I have decent beam weapons, I should have some maneuverability to turn and fire as needed anyhow vs AI.

On a Huge map, scouts can't usually reach more than a couple of systems initially anyhow. I play prewarp so I have to research and make my scouts. I make them all (usually need only 1) with nothing but extended tanks. Some monsters still kill them. If you get a scout killed and need another just switch production and make it.

Playing average start, I'd want to colonize a decent nearby system ASAP. You may have lousy stuff right by you, but I'd colonize any system with two fair planets. You want that quick start and to get that extra lab and research working.

I forget how much production Klacks start with after pollution so the decision as to whether to instantly make colony bases and then research labs/factories or to build lab/fact first is up to you and may depend on what your system has for planets.

Learn how to save up production one worker at a time (building something else costly) and then switch over production and buy it half built as soon as the critical research finishes.

The Ants are a very powerful production race, but being non-creative can saddle them with some lousy techs and cause them to miss needed techs. Do your best to trade for labs/supercomps, factories/robo-miners if missing any of those must have econo-techs.

You start with one system and your starting colony ship will give you a 2nd. I'd not want to make more than 2 or 3 more initially as you need to also concentrate on techs, war oriented techs and building some war ships for defense or attack, or to go after a space monster and great system or UR planet.

 

[MasterOfNothing]

Thanks for the general tips and tutorial, very useful.

And indeed, the klackons are a good production race. I rather like them! Even more, I have just won my game! The enemy could not stop my titans, armed with heavy mass drivers. It felt good to be the strongest for a change!

I have really fallen in love with this game, I think I'm going to play a game as the meklars now...

edit: And at a higher difficulty too, of course

 

[neilkaz]

Thanks for the general tips and tutorial, very useful.

And indeed, the klackons are a good production race. I rather like them! Even more, I have just won my game! The enemy could not stop my titans, armed with heavy mass drivers. It felt good to be the strongest for a change!

I have really fallen in love with this game, I think I'm going to play a game as the meklars now...

edit: And at a higher difficulty too, of course

Congrats....don't start that game now or you'll be up all night

I'd suggest just moving up 1 level and if you win it, play the next game at the same level but with a huge map with 8 races. (if you aren't already playing in that big a galaxy).

edit: Meks eat production as well as food and while they need fewer farmers, eating production can slow down their production. I've found that they don't really get rocking until they get Robo-Miners. If I recall, Meks can start with 15 production on their home planet after pollution and consumption. As a result, and especially with Average start where you'll colonize a new system soon, I think it best to research labs and factories before building the home system colony bases.

 

[MasterOfNothing]

Thanks,

I have indeed stepped it up one level, I went straight for robo-miners, research labs, factories and titans. And I won!

I just stomped the enemy with my rushed titans

I'm really getting the hang of this game, I just needed to adjust my startup. My biggest mistakes where building too many colony ships, going for fusion beams and not building research labs fast enough (or not at all ).

Thanks for all the help people! Now I can really enjoy this game!

 

[neilkaz]

Thanks,

I'm really getting the hang of this game, I just needed to adjust my startup. My biggest mistakes where building too many colony ships, going for fusion beams and not building research labs fast enough (or not at all ).

I think you'll find that for almost any race, you want to research the tech for research labs first. This is especially true on an average tech start since you'll soon have a 2nd planet due to your starting CS and then you can soon have two labs, that together will just generate 10 RP/t just sitting there even if you don't assign any scientists since your colonists may be busy building stuff. The idea of quick labs is to get a quick jump start on early tech research and the research labs provide that, and of course +1research per scientist also helps.

Now that you've got some experience, it may be a good idea to work on improving your start yourself thru some trial and error testing various methods. Just play over and over a few times to a point maybe 100 turns or so out and see what methods work best. I think you'll find trying to build two quick labs from an average start is very helpful.

With this being Civ Fanatics, I'll also point out that some testing of start up methods can help many Civ players.

 

[MasterOfNothing]

I'll try out some startups and let you know how it goes.

 

[MasterOfNothing]

Phew those were some busy days!

Wasn't really able to play as much MoO as I wanted but I did have some interesting games...

My first game was a game where I told myself to only focus on research. Because of that my empire was super-small, but because my tech was so advanced the enemy could not defeat my doomstar. Eventually, under the cover of my doomstar, my empire could expand and I won.

In another game I deceided to go for a sort of a rush. I rushed for fusion beam and some nice computers + battlescanners (I know fusion beams are not that great but I wanted to give them another swing ). Then I built a lot of small ships equipped with heavy fusion beams. And it worked! I was able to conquer myself a very decent empire. But at a certain point the defences of the enemy became too powerfull for my ships to handle and I could not properly get a grip on my empire so my size was not really an advantage. So the enemy just attacked my flanks all the time and I eventually lost.

I think it illustrates perfectly how research is the way to go. You may not have that super fast expanding, but you will have the technology to win any war anyway. And you don't have to worry about defending too many planets.

 

[Serutan]

You definitely have to be careful about stretching yourself too thin early on. I tend to colonize
until I run into another race, then I stop colonizing and start building up defenses.