Help me finish off my game, or, how's about this for a fun scenario

Buttercup said:
Have you got any other jobs they could do apart from chop 8 squares of trees down?

Now looking at your save I can see plenty of jobs for your workers. They can cut the trees near Hlobane. They can road spaces near where you might want to put a city near Paris on the coast. I'd have cities like Taejon, Cheju, and many other southern cities put out settlers to fill in gaps. This way you all the tiles within your cultural borders can get used. They can use workers to road and then railroad deserts, plains, grassland in plenty of places within your cultural borders. They can also irrigate all those squares, so you can put up tax or science farms (advice: found more cities so you can use all squares within your cultural borders (except maybe at the edges of your empire)). You also have a ton of jungle which can cleared. Some players call jungle and marsh "uncleared grassland" as once you clear it, it becomes grassland. With no food bonuses, once irrigated and having a rail, each "uncleared grassland" gives you 4 food per turn per square. This enables specialist farms to get quickly developed. If you don't know what I mean by that, see below.

For whatever victory condition you want, I'd get all units out of my cities and put them in border cities or put them near border cities, except those that sit in border cities already. You might also want to sign an RoP with Sumeria for some 400-600 gold, whatever it takes, take 4 of those tank armies, and move them 1 square adjacent to Agade. Then attack Sumeria and raze Agade, since it has the U. N., and you aren't and almost certainly won't get on friendly terms with any of these AIs. I'd also upgrade all those medieval infantry to ToW infantry. I don't know what sort of victory condition you want, so specific plans seem hard to figure out.

Buttercup said:
Are you deliberately not counting my 50 or so foreign workers? I'm confused as to why you prefer to leave these fine units out of the stat pile.

He actually might have included those 50 or so foreign workers. In the following save, I have a large map game going (it's already finished). I counted about 30 or so slaves in my game. I'll soon obtain more. The military advisor indicates I have 57 (native) workers. Note that I'm in a Republic, and I don't have to pay unit support. Why? Because outside of my core, that is in any area that I've captured instead of founded (i. e. those areas which have too much corruption to do all that much), I've ICSed my cities. So, even though I did have to pay out cash every turn for all those workers earlier, I don't anymore. Cities like Stuttgart, Marad, Nuremburg, and Kuara indicate what a completed scientist specialist farm looks like (the choice of courthouses isn't necessarily the best, settlers, wealth, and perhaps even workers can work better for a specialist farm). Cities like New Zabalam indicate what an uncompleted specialist farm looks like as it grows. Note all the irrigation.

The save should also give you an idea of how to make effective use of your military. I don't have any units in Frankfurt, even though it borders Persia, because I have rails, and Persia can't reach Frankfurt in one turn. They might snatch the slave near there, so I've defended it. Nagsu also doesn't have any defense, and it doesn't need any. Gordium and Dariush Kabir on the other hand come as well defended, since they can get attacked on the inter-turn. New Berlin has some defense, since, unfortunately Persia has an RoP with Germany. I'd guess I moved at least one more rifle from the rifles between Dariush Kabir and Gordium to Dariush Kabir before the turn ended. Also, note that I put those two rifles there, so I could railroad to Dariush Kabir... that is to defend my workers, which now will move to another job, since they've finished railing.

Best of luck with your game!
 

Attachments

Ah, attacking Sumeria first, yes indeed, this had crossed my mind also. In order to do this I was thinking maybe waiting 20 turns or so when I had a really good stock of Modern Armour. I couldn't decide whether to take out all the small towns or go straight for their main hub though. It's difficult to guess where their front-line chunk is stored but I suspect most of their bombers will be hiding in the hotchpotch middle area.

Going for the capitol area first could either win it or be suicide depending on how defended it is. This was one of the main dilemmas which prompted me to halt the game in an impasse frame of mind.

Perhaps I was wondering if someone would like to try it for me before I leap :)
 
Hit end turn, and wait to see what the Quois can throw at me this time. Answer: nothing. A couple of infantry and tows trundle around, but obviously can't reach any targets, and they have no tanks left.
The Sumerians also fail to add much to their big stacks of units getting tied up in my territory. This is as one would expect in the rail era: all available units show up on turn one, and only new builds trickle out to the front thereafter.
1 pollution, and Oiogouen flips back to the Quois.

1904ad...
Workers clear the pollution and keep chopping forests.

Oiogouen got a tow when it flipped, but the town is in artillery range from Inchon, so I redline the defender and retake it with an elite armour. The other artillery shell the stray foot units, and I kill them all with elites. My pack of ships in the western sea catches up with, and starts sinking, the fleeing Quois fleet; I'm just keeping the battleships and cruisers in the sea, and sending the ironclads for upgrade.

On to the main business of taking towns. I'm planning to move westwards from last turn's east coast battleground. Centralia goes down first; its top defender was a tow, so I started the attack with an army. Lose 2 armour taking Gewauga. Because it is only 3 tiles from Centralia, I got to bring some of my elite tanks to this battle too.
Now we have mountains blocking the fast attack routes to the next two towns west, Allegheny and Mauch Chunk, but Allegheny can be attacked from the east, after I've taken one the Quois's core metros, St Regis. It has 2 tows sitting on top, so I bring in tank armies to make sure of them. After the tows, there are only 3 infs, and I lose 1 armour capturing the city. Frustratingly, this does not open the path to Allegheny, because St Regis is culturally isolated due to the strength of Allegheny and Salamanca, so I can't bring more troops through the area without wasting their movement points. However, I still have one last card to play, my settler. I found Ibabanago between Niagara and Gandestaigon, and from there, 3-movers can hit Allegheny. Again, I use tank armies to do some of the heavy lifting, and take the city without losses. St Regis is now reachable by my defenders.

I don't have the forces spare to take on Salamaca this turn, so it is time to tidy up again; defend the border towns with big stacks of inf (just for show now, really, as we should hardly expect that each of the remaining Quois towns has a newly built tank/cav ready to head out on the attack) and cut any rail routes leading past the front line through gaps in my culture.
A couple of armies and some elite tanks advance to the mountains overlooking Mauch Chunk, the gateway to the southern Caughnawaga peninsula.
 
He actually might have included those 50 or so foreign workers.

I didn't, I was lazy and only looked at the military advisor, which does not show slaves. I should have run it through Civassist. I'd still build more even with the slaves though...
 
Incidentally, the new Game of the Month, COTM86 is up, and it is using similar settings to this one: regent Zulu pangaea. Small map, albeit only 60% water. So if anyone wants to start this project from the top... :mischief:
 
Ah, attacking Sumeria first, yes indeed, this had crossed my mind also. In order to do this I was thinking maybe waiting 20 turns or so when I had a really good stock of Modern Armour. I couldn't decide whether to take out all the small towns or go straight for their main hub though. It's difficult to guess where their front-line chunk is stored but I suspect most of their bombers will be hiding in the hotchpotch middle area.

Going for the capitol area first could either win it or be suicide depending on how defended it is. This was one of the main dilemmas which prompted me to halt the game in an impasse frame of mind.

Perhaps I was wondering if someone would like to try it for me before I leap :)

I'm working on Sumeria first. There is a nice chokepoint near Edo, and I've blocked it with some armies. I've got SAMs over there to help with bombers, but I haven't seen many of them yet. There was a huge pile of units, mostly near a couple of cities, rather than in them, but other than that, most cities have had two defenders, as I expected. I tried planting a spy as soon as we came out of anarchy, and Sumeria declared. I allied the Iroquois, but they've done little. They are doing a little bombing for me, which is helpful since we have little in the way of artillery.

I've got all the western cities now, up to Edo. I could take a break and fill in with settlers (my goal is culture, not domination - Sumeria needs to be wiped out, but there is no hurry), but I think I'll continue on, as Sumeria's government has collapsed and they are now in anarchy again. It's 1920 and we are finally average vs Sumeria.
 
Not much activity from the Quois on the interturn; 1 loose infantryman, and a small pack of destroyers sail in from the east to shell newly captured Gewauga.
In the northeast, Gil knocks out the last Quois junk town.

1906ad...
Let's get straight down to the conquering. Mountain town Mauch Chunk turns out to have only an inf and a spear defending, which is a bit feeble considering that it claims both iron and aluminium. One armour kills both units with a blitz. From there, I drive south and lose an armour taking Caughnawaga. To the west of Mauch Chunk is Kahnawake. I use a tank army to take care of its tow, and lose an armour taking the rest of the defenders out. Kahnawake is built close to Cattaraugus, so I bring 10 arts over to redline Catta's defenders, and finish them off with elite tanks and vet cavs, earning a leader (army). The remaining artillery shell the Quois destroyers.
Now for the big target, Salamanca. I attack out of St Regis in order to stay on the same side of the river as the city. 2 tank armies kill 2 tows, and I follow with 9 armour, 3 of which are lost. Salamanca is captured, netting a cannon and an artillery. From here, I can strike Grand River, though I have to attack across a river. I have no healed tank armies left to start with, so I use a cav army, which kills the defending tow with only 1hp to spare. 5 armour and a cav then take the town, with another 3 armour lost.
There are only two towns left, and both have deep cultural borders. However, Owego is only small, so likely to have few enough defenders that my cav armies can take it. So I press on with the assault. There are only 2 defenders, both infantry, so no trouble at all. From Owego, elite tanks move on Gayagaahe; 1 dead, 4 survive, and the Quois are destroyed.

Post-war consolidation: make sure every resister is partnered with a unit. It can be superior to let towns come out of resistance more gradually, so there's less starving / rioting, but I'm not going to sweat the maths on this occasion.
My army now consists of...
Elites: 2 maces, 2 rifles, 2 infantry, 2 companion cavs, 1 knight, 42 cavalry, 9 tanks, 16 armour.
Vets: 76 infantry (inc 1 reg), 5 tows, 24 cavalry, 30 armour.
14 armies (their contents not included in the above numbers), 23 artillery, 2 bombers.


1908ad...
Nothing doing. Get 2 pollutions, clean them up, and start cleaning the pollutions left by the Quois. Start upgrading ironclads to destroyers, mostly just for show.
The Sumerians have gone to anarchy.
 
I've got all the western cities now, up to Edo. I could take a break and fill in with settlers

This is excellent news. I'm one for neatness in empire building and my inkling was to take out all those messy middle cities and form a barrier where the land gets really narrow. I felt that if I could achieve this it was pretty much a hassle free game-over from then on in. So I'm thrilled it wasn't as hard as I led myself to believe, even without artillery. I think I have been 'feared' by seeing so much from Sumeria throughout the game, particularly it's ability to survive and win a massive dogpile against it a few hundred years ago. New eyes are not hindered by this!


the Quois are destroyed.

In just 5 turns! I have to say I've learned a few neat tricks from this campaign as I would probably have taken a couple of turns longer and probably lost a lot more units. I like the trick of using settlers to reduce culture borders. I have done this before but never in a combat scenario. Now I see it, it's so obvious, lol. I am also swaying towards Artillery as in my Huge Regent Pangea win yesterday I captured some from the Japanese and they are quite devastating when they succeed in a hit. The main reason I don't use them is due to my playing style, I like to hit hard and fast with mobile troops rather than with carefully planned assaults, but you have proven to me that artillery can play its part in this (though railroad does appear to be the element which makes them so effective so I'm not sure if they'd ever make it to my front line if I attacked a roaded civ). Once Modern Armour arrives then, again, they're going to struggle to keep up in heavily cultured civs, though that Settler trick would certainly help with that.


I also find it fascinating that Sumeria descends into Anarchy in both scenarios. I would have expected Sumeria and/or England to declare on me if I looked like winning a war with Iroquois, this has been their usual method in this game. Hence the Mutual Defence Pact with Sumeria in-case I chose that route.
 
Artillery can help with units that the AI plops onto your territory in the interturn even without rails. Buying as many armies as you can generally hits the AIs harder and faster than anything.
 
I'm now up to 1946, and I have a projected win date before 2050. Sumeria is down to 25 cities, and I'm up to 218. I've built the Internet, and I'm building lots of settlers. I should have spammed settlers earlier and more whole-heartedly, but I have trouble committing fully. My alliance with the Iroquois against Sumeria is about to run out. I don't know whether I should renew it; probably that will depend on what I can get Sumeria to give me in a peace deal. While I need to take out Sumeria completely, I don't need to do it until I get close to 160k. I'll also need to trim down England and the Iroquois some, I expect (they are sitting at about 66k), and if Sumeria will give me a good deal, I can concentrate on one of the others for a while.
 
I'm now up to 1946, and I have a projected win date before 2050. Sumeria is down to 25 cities, and I'm up to 218. I've built the Internet, and I'm building lots of settlers. I should have spammed settlers earlier and more whole-heartedly, but I have trouble committing fully. My alliance with the Iroquois against Sumeria is about to run out. I don't know whether I should renew it; probably that will depend on what I can get Sumeria to give me in a peace deal. While I need to take out Sumeria completely, I don't need to do it until I get close to 160k. I'll also need to trim down England and the Iroquois some, I expect (they are sitting at about 66k), and if Sumeria will give me a good deal, I can concentrate on one of the others for a while.

You must be crazy playing that sort of game! :lol: On a huge map no less.
 
Well, with only 126 turns to play, it wasn't such a big commitment. Building the culture isn't the difficult part, the tedious warfare is what I don't care for. However, with Sumeria at just over 100k, they have to go.
 
Well, with only 126 turns to play, it wasn't such a big commitment. Building the culture isn't the difficult part, the tedious warfare is what I don't care for. However, with Sumeria at just over 100k, they have to go.

I didn't even get one halfway decent turn done, before I concluded it was all much too much work. :p
 
Careful not to trip the dom limit! Playing a long VC with Internet on a pangaea is a huge tile-counting headache.

Seems like it shouldn't be a problem if you don't go past the choke; I estimate the dom limit lies at about 300 tiles past Edo plus everything on this side, including towns currently English :backstab:
 
I have 850 tiles to go before reaching the domination limit. I'm not too worried. If I get close, I'll abandon cities as needed to stay significantly under the limit - I don't like to push it and have to worry about other tiles unexpectedly becoming mine.
 
I didn't even get one halfway decent turn done, before I concluded it was all much too much work.

Maybe now you realise why my Micro-Management skills for this particular game are, at first glance, a little less becoming...

Well, with only 126 turns to play, it wasn't such a big commitment. Building the culture isn't the difficult part, the tedious warfare is what I don't care for. However, with Sumeria at just over 100k, they have to go.

Careful not to trip the dom limit!

Overlapping win scenarios are a bit of a pain, lol. But I'm still impressed 160k is still available this late in the game. I suppose 218 towns/cities/metros would only require 5 culture per turn to make 1000 pert turn and from 1950-2050 is over 100k right there. I think whichever win scenario you choose then Sumeria needs a good bashing IMO (as it has virtually the whole game) which is another reason I found this scenario so tantalising.

I estimate the dom limit lies at about 300 tiles past Edo plus everything on this side

I look forward to seeing how things pan out for you now that you've removed your primary ally for any UN vote which might pop up.
 
My primary ally to keep the UN vote off the agenda is Pacha. He's so behind that it was easy to ally him against Sumeria. With only 4 voters, I think Gil needs everyone else to vote against me to not get a hung vote. I considered bringing Liz into the war as well, but there doesn't seem a need. Gil isn't holding elections anyway. I presume this means the AI are all furious to each other.

I'm expecting to hit dom in 1948ad, 5 turns after Internet completes. It's later than it should be because I dithered a bit on whether to go for dom or conquest. Factory should have been done on the last turn of anarchy, hydro plant the turn after that (1910it), Internet 10 turns later (1930it), so the cultural expansions would have come up in 1938it - not sure whether that would count as a 1938ad or a 1940ad win, off the top of my head.
 
1910ad
Democracy installed, and Sumeria chooses the same government. Why did I go Democracy, when Republic would be numerically stronger? Because (a) I've got lots of terrain improvement to do, (b) novelty value - I'd never normally get to use it, and (c) I want to experience some of this much-debated war weariness. As theorized above, the old war weariness should all be lost to history, but I'll try and find some more in Sumeria.
Why did Gil go for Democracy? Because he wants to try out war weariness too. :p

1912ad
New unit builds: 2 bombers, 4 artillery, 1 armour, 6 settlers, 2 workers, 2 slaves.
Factory complete in Zimbabwe; start coal plant. Zimbabwe has more citizens than it needs. Extra citizens cost shields so draft a citizen into a mech and immediately disband it to speed up the coal plant.
Send the settlers to the semi-circle of mountains that stretches across my northeast border region, from Troy in the north to Grenoble in the east. I will fight the Sumerians here for a couple of turns, because I can easily block the few lowland routes through the mountain range with armies, preventing their fast movers from getting any actual attacks on my units or towns.

1914ad
New unit builds: 2 bombers, 6 artillery, 1 armour, 2 settlers, 5 workers, 6 slaves.
Sumeria hits one of my towns with sabotage, though when I go look in there, it still has plenty of shields in the box. :hmm: Does sabotage only prevent one turn's shield production? Seems a bit weak. I've never used it, and can't remember it being used against me before, but if that's how Gil want to waste his big fat treasury, who am I to complain?
Five new towns have gone up on the mountain border - the area looks secure now, so I'm really only waiting to get my infantry upgraded to mechs before I can dow Gil.

1916ad
New unit builds: 1 artillery, 8 settlers, 2 workers, 5 slaves.
Zimbabwe completes coal plant; start mass transit, as the pollution situation looks bad enough to cost me at least a turn on SETI.
My two towns northwest of the crescent mountain range, Haeju and Tokchon, disband themselves into settlers; I won't be in a position to defend them, so either I (a) take them down now and refound them in a couple of turns time, (b) gift them to Gil and recapture them from him in a couple of turns time, or (c) gift them to Liz and recapture them if I dow her later. Option (a) seems to be the least fussy.
Draft the 21st citizen in Zimbabwe and disband for shields. I should then short-rush so that transit would complete next turn, but at some point before my micro is complete I accidentally mash the space-bar and go to the interturn. :rolleyes: This also means I haven't set the science slider & scientists sufficient to complete research on Computers.

1918ad
New unit builds: 1 artillery, 7 settlers, 1 worker, 6 slaves.
Use most of the settlers to fill in gaps around the empire, mostly in the Quois province.
Gather all my infantry together in one town, so that I can easily upgrade them all on the interturn, and so have them ready to move straight to the border next turn.

Computers is definitely going to complete this time, and I'm ready for the big campaign.
All throughout this period, I have been using my cavs to herd the Sumerian stack of 70 mechs and tanks, which is just on my side of the mountain range, in the Rouen / Asyut area. The intent is to get them joined up with a smaller group of units also plodding around the area (including two artillery pieces, which Gil apparently sent on the offensive :eek: during the Quois War), all bunched up together on flat land, so I can choose whether to kill or contain the lot of them at my leisure.
 
Your game sounds very interesting PaperBeetle. I especially like the part about going to Democracy. For anyone who doesn't know, Moonsinger wrote an article on waging a war in a Democracy a while ago (for Vanilla).
 
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