FaceUnderMask
Warlord
Checked the link.
This is cheesy, boring and unsatisfying in one way. And absolutely amazing and fascinating in the other. Would definitely try it.
Help me improve my play
- Thread starter FaceUnderMask
- Start date
Checked the link.
This is cheesy, boring and unsatisfying in one way. And absolutely amazing and fascinating in the other. Would definitely try it.
adcarrymaokai
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2013
- Messages
- 1,616
Just finished a game where almost everyone asked to be my friend early and spammed me with RA requests. That was on Immortal. Of course, around Ideology time hell broke loose, but your ideological buds are still there.
FaceUnderMask
Warlord
Found a clue here about why I may have serious issues with rushbuying early on. Basically, I buy resource tiles too much (sometimes 5+ in 100 turns, could have saved them for a library), this seems to be a bad thing for an early eras, correct?
Also, is there an in-depth guide on how spying works? With formulaes and useful insights?
Also, is there an in-depth guide on how spying works? With formulaes and useful insights?
Magma_Dragoon
Reploid
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 2,354
FaceUnderMask
Warlord
Had a deity game, which I've lost now.
Can't say I was way too bad, since I had T105 education, learned to stockpile gold for rushbuy science buildings, and use early caravans for food only. At about T195 I had labs. That's 1250AD, of all people. Ofcourse there was plenty of mistakes, mostly diplomatic-biased.
Short intro:
I was surrounded by spain, dido and mongols. Mongols did something REALLY terrible - conquered two city states. All other six AI's torn Mongols apart, and so happens the closest one to Mongols - Brasil - was the one to get most out of this. They quickly became the most technologically advanced AI, and because of their nature at T200 developed at what is called cultural runaway. And everyone was like superfriendly with him at T100-T200. Even dido, of all people, wasn't willing to backstab him.
I've tried to load to fix some stuff at T105, but it went exactly like before - at T150 I have like 6 or 7 cities brasil who is at center of pangaea and friends with everyone. I suppose the only cure was to go way back in time, even further than T105, at the time where mongols still hadn't killed any of city states, and pit them against brasil with a bribe. Brasil gets killed, mongols remain the center of everyone's attention, dido and spain gets occupied with mongolia. Love and peace.
How do you deal with potential cultural runaways?
Can't say I was way too bad, since I had T105 education, learned to stockpile gold for rushbuy science buildings, and use early caravans for food only. At about T195 I had labs. That's 1250AD, of all people. Ofcourse there was plenty of mistakes, mostly diplomatic-biased.
Short intro:
I was surrounded by spain, dido and mongols. Mongols did something REALLY terrible - conquered two city states. All other six AI's torn Mongols apart, and so happens the closest one to Mongols - Brasil - was the one to get most out of this. They quickly became the most technologically advanced AI, and because of their nature at T200 developed at what is called cultural runaway. And everyone was like superfriendly with him at T100-T200. Even dido, of all people, wasn't willing to backstab him.
I've tried to load to fix some stuff at T105, but it went exactly like before - at T150 I have like 6 or 7 cities brasil who is at center of pangaea and friends with everyone. I suppose the only cure was to go way back in time, even further than T105, at the time where mongols still hadn't killed any of city states, and pit them against brasil with a bribe. Brasil gets killed, mongols remain the center of everyone's attention, dido and spain gets occupied with mongolia. Love and peace.
How do you deal with potential cultural runaways?
adcarrymaokai
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2013
- Messages
- 1,616
Actually, you don't absolutely have to stockpile gold. You can still hard-build universities with a t105 Education in more productive cities. You can also spend gold on crucial tiles early on, as long as you don't buy every turn. I think it's usually only worth rush-buying a third library to start NC asap, and then you can rush-buy only when you have spare cash, but that cash might be much needed to upgrade archers in case you have Attila next door or whanot.
I think early caravans are supposed to be used for science only. If you send a caravan to the AI, they might send one to you, and you can get +10bpt just from those two trade routes, which is huge early game. You usually want to send a cargo ship to the capital for food because it carries twice as much food, but that is possible only on coastal starts. You only use land caravans for food when there is no one to trade with... but the early caravan beakers trump even libraries at this point in the game.
Artillery, say many seasoned players on this forum. I personally enjoy peaceful games or pitting AI's against each other, since I play cultural games and am busy cranking out wonders. But.. a potential culture runaway has to influence everyone to win, and your job is to be in a differing ideology and never let them have open borders with you, so that their influence cannot rise quickly enough. Also, if you are going cultural, the most optimal strategy is to rush to the Internet, bypassing Radar and then 8 turns later popping Great Musicians (time the guild slightly before the Internet) and bombing the runaways with Tours. You can also just turtle a tourism win yourself, if you went culture, but that would take over 300 turns.
FaceUnderMask
Warlord
Actually, I am usually the first who wears their blue jeans and buys their souveneers
I simply don't understand how you can maintain high culture without crippling something else in the process. Monuments + Amphitheatre + Writers + great works -> 21 culture @ 3 cities. You can add artists, that's another +6, since artist slots are hard to come by early on, or musicians, that's yet another +6, and possibly +9 more for Operas and great works. So at the very best I have +43 @ Industrial. You can't really counter 350 tourism brasil carnival with that amount of culture. Yeah, and this also eats away six slots of GP, which I could've used to work +4 food farm. I guess controlling every cultural CS is the way to go.
Edit: some bookmarks
non-CV tourism
non-CV culture
Also, getting even a pantheon is under question now. It isn't very useful if erased by other religion somewhere near T100. And it isn't very useful if it gives you
to get a religion, since the two only things in religion that do not require additional input of are +15% 
if not at war and +1% 
per 1 
. I'm sure I've seen a thread at this forum not long ago discussing this. Edit: found it
I'm getting bloody tired of this game. When I played vanilla, I thought that it was too simple and wished for it to be more complex. Then 2.5 years later it became so complex that I'm lost in it
adcarrymaokai
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2013
- Messages
- 1,616
Well.. It makes sense that if you want culture, you've got to pursue culture.
But yeah, guilds yield culture, some national wonders yield culture, CS allies (who are easy to get early game by having an archer destroy a barbarian camp) give tons of culture. If you aren't going cultural victory, you don't have to build amphitheaters until you are about to produce a great work, and then after Archaeology you can go dig artifacts or convert antiquity sites into landmarks which yield several points of culture depending on world congress policies and their age. Monument, however, comes from Tradition if you chose it. And as I said, try to not give a runaway tourism civ open borders and take a differing ideology, do not send trade routes there, and try not to share religion with them. The differing ideologies is a -34% modifier, so one third of his tourism should go to waste.
Well, religion is a bonus, but it is 100% possible to win without a religion and even a pantheon. You got to be lucky to found an early pantheon and maybe adopt a religion, but if it's too late for religion, then just don't bother and continue with your game. When you don't have a religion, the AI will spread their religion to yours, and usually the AI's had picked something moderately useful for you, but even if not, you can still play without it. If you are going for science, you should really be only concerned with science and population, and also defending yourself from Shaka.Also, getting even a pantheon is under question now. It isn't very useful if erased by other religion somewhere near T100. And it isn't very useful if it gives you
Memoryjar
Emperor
For Diety, I build Opera house and Ermitage if I try to play peaceful, assume be sandwich by Japan, Sweden, Spain and Denmark was a little bit hard in my last game.
When you reach hotel and airport you'll have enough to delay cultural victory.
For main conversation, it's hard to have a sub T300 SV in Emperor, better in Immortal, must do in Deity. Early caravans for beakers are need, in my opinion. Before Public School you're not tech leader (except if you're a power player). So two caravans for beakers are need. Sailing help a lot, it's a fair deal, delaying Education for 1 caravan.
When you reach hotel and airport you'll have enough to delay cultural victory.
For main conversation, it's hard to have a sub T300 SV in Emperor, better in Immortal, must do in Deity. Early caravans for beakers are need, in my opinion. Before Public School you're not tech leader (except if you're a power player). So two caravans for beakers are need. Sailing help a lot, it's a fair deal, delaying Education for 1 caravan.
FaceUnderMask
Warlord
Spoiler :
Best pangaea ever *sarcasm*
Isn't very productive towards my goal to achieve sub-T300 SV, but I'm gonna enjoy this volatile eastern land explode somewhere around T150
Any advice on this one, by the way?
It seems that I wouldn't be able to send caravans to AI until very late into the game.
Spoiler :
Best pangaea ever *sarcasm*
Isn't very productive towards my goal to achieve sub-T300 SV, but I'm gonna enjoy this volatile eastern land explode somewhere around T150
Any advice on this one, by the way?
It seems that I wouldn't be able to send caravans to AI until very late into the game.
mountain block, with those people... just grow in peace...
(and annex those two cities you conquered); I hope you eliminated Poca before the rest of the world heard of it... otherwise good luck having no RAs.
Granted, Babylon does well isolated from others in SV, so just tech tech tech grow grow grow and win with all those grassland tiles.
FaceUnderMask
Warlord
I managed to build oracle in this game, so it gave me 1 additional SP. Usually I finish tradition and next SP is already during renessance era, so I go rationalism. But with additional SP I've ended up being too early. So, what should I open? Commerce is good since it should synergize with monarchy, aestetics are also good since I would run those writers anyway, and patronage is meh, but also viable. What is your opinion?
FaceUnderMask
Warlord
Okay, this was fun.
First deity win, first sub-T300 SV.
Sadly, I've played babylon and had to use overflow abuse, so this victory feels quite sour. I doubt I would've won if I didn't used it.
Two most militant AIs at the different corners of pangaea picking the same ideology (and order, of all people) and eating all other AIs is some kind of a bad joke.
Spoiler :
First deity win, first sub-T300 SV.
Sadly, I've played babylon and had to use overflow abuse, so this victory feels quite sour. I doubt I would've won if I didn't used it.
Two most militant AIs at the different corners of pangaea picking the same ideology (and order, of all people) and eating all other AIs is some kind of a bad joke.
direblade99
Warlord
Don't use overflow exploit, it's cheating and after it gets patched you'll be screwed if you relied on it as a strategy for too long.
Seeing these screenshot, and the long game, you've missed something HUGE.
why on gods grey earth did you not settle those cities beside mountains, observatories woul've helped you a great deal, i mean an observatory in such a big city is much much better than any petra, hanging gardens combined, whatever.
Generally i think that many players looking to improve their game needs to get out more warriors/archers early game, and clear those barb camps for CS allies, getting happiness and food early is so key. Good example build up can be scout, scout, monument, warrior, archer, archer. If you have not tried to get units early, do it, its very worth it, much better than shrine/granary/caravan, it does not matter if you get NC turn 70 or 90, you need early growth and happiness for the long term.
dont bother with RA's too much, make sure you always spend gold on rushing science buildings as a priority, hope this helps.
why on gods grey earth did you not settle those cities beside mountains, observatories woul've helped you a great deal, i mean an observatory in such a big city is much much better than any petra, hanging gardens combined, whatever.
Generally i think that many players looking to improve their game needs to get out more warriors/archers early game, and clear those barb camps for CS allies, getting happiness and food early is so key. Good example build up can be scout, scout, monument, warrior, archer, archer. If you have not tried to get units early, do it, its very worth it, much better than shrine/granary/caravan, it does not matter if you get NC turn 70 or 90, you need early growth and happiness for the long term.
dont bother with RA's too much, make sure you always spend gold on rushing science buildings as a priority, hope this helps.
direblade99
Warlord
To build on what klaskeren has said about barb hunting, try playing a civ with strong early UU's to more easily overpower those barbs for your CS friends. Greece especially comes to mind as the UA helps with CS buddies greatly as well, but other possibilities are the Celts or the Aztecs because of both the strong early UU's and with both civs you get other bonuses for hunting barbs early (faith and culture respectively).
FaceUnderMask
Warlord
klaskeren, direblade99, big thanks for advice!
I'll definitely try it, once I recover from shock of losing my last game miserably.
Babylon once again comes to mind for their archers.
How many units you usually employ for barb hunting? It seems to me that two groups of spearman-archer duo should be enough.
I'll definitely try it, once I recover from shock of losing my last game miserably.
Babylon once again comes to mind for their archers.
How many units you usually employ for barb hunting? It seems to me that two groups of spearman-archer duo should be enough.
direblade99
Warlord
You don't need many, I think making two warriors will be enough tbh if you got an archer scout as well to go with them, but a spearman and an archer will suffice as well provided the production required for spearmen doesn't slow down your early build order too much.
spearman is a bad idea, you dont want to go bronzeworking early. including your starting warrior, 1-2 warriors + 3 archers will do fine. just make sure to get them out on the map fast, so 2x scout is very needed, to know where CS and barbs are.
