Help me turn the AI into a real killer

[Ares de Borg]

Hello guys,

I need your help. I've been playing and modding this game for a decade now, and now it's time for a new challenge. I need to beef up the AI, especially in Multiplayer games.

I want to be attacked and beaten, overrun, lag behind in technology...
Long story short, I want to feel like the AI usually does in my games.

I'd like to collect all possible hints, tricks and tweaks that can improve the AI and/or difficulty level in an epic game, especially editor settings. I want the AI to deliver hell of a fight.

Please share your little tweaks, I'd appreciate to hear from you.

 

[Yoda Power]

I don't have much time now, so I'll provide more later, but as a rule of thumb: Stay away from stuff the AI handles bad. Don't add weird units, useless buildings that only serve a purpose in very specific places etc.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

I think Zombie Island is a case study in making a challenging AI for a scenario.

The main thing that comes to mind for epic games is the staple of AI difficulty since Civ 1: making their stuff cheaper than ours. The simplest way for that is to make things much more expensive in general and adjust the AI bonuses in the difficulty tab so that things are dirt cheap for them. Nothing you don't already know and not the most eloquent solution, but surely the most reliable way to have the computer respond to later game human war production.

One thing I've been messing with recently is a dragoon/mech infantry-style unit that has the offensive flag but defensive stats (medium attack and high defense). It seems to help a little with the computer's tendency to send stacks of offensive units that get stuck in enemy territory and are defenseless. It also works nice for tank destroyers with stealth attack. For example, if tanks have an A/D of 15/8, and TDs have an A/D of 10/12 (or whatever), then the TD can stealth attack enemy tanks at nearly even odds. As always, balancing the stats to guide AI production will be a tedious process.

Another item that comes to mind is Civinator's artillery and recon in SOE that can stealth attack your artillery and other offensive units. This can really blunt your attack when you're stuck in AI territory on the way to an enemy city.

Very interested in reading others' thoughts... Great thread idea! Perhaps help could be more specific if we could check out your mod in detail ...

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I remember that in the classic scenario "Rood and the Dragon," Plotinus made the AI want to attack the Saxons because it's unique unit required three resources, all of which were only available on Saxon land. Seem to recall it made them desperate to get the resources, at all costs - but would need to be a pre-made map.

 

[stico]

........

 

[timerover51]

Hello guys,

I need your help. I've been playing and modding this game for a decade now, and now it's time for a new challenge. I need to beef up the AI, especially in Multiplayer games.

I want to be attacked and beaten, overrun, lag behind in technology...
Long story short, I want to feel like the AI usually does in my games.

I'd like to collect all possible hints, tricks and tweaks that can improve the AI and/or difficulty level in an epic game, especially editor settings. I want the AI to deliver hell of a fight.

Please share your little tweaks, I'd appreciate to hear from you.

Why would you want to do this?

 

[Vuldacon]

Obviously, many things are more readily accomplished in a Scenario than in an Epic Game, however, you can certainly provide the AI with Power and overwhelming Strengths in an Epic Game.

I assume you will have at least one CIV that is only the AI and not playable by a Human in your Epic Game.

Invisible Units have Far Greater Attack Power with lesser settings due to the fact that the Defending Unit cannot see them The "Sneaky Zombie" in EFZI2 Complete is an example of this. Take care though, invisible units start wars because others can accidentally run into them.

Not only can you set up a situation where the AI Needs a Resource that is only available to them if they go to war and capture a City where it is only available but you can also entice the AI to Attack Cities where the Other CIVs will have Great Power or Strong Units available later.

The AI will go after Cities early when those Cities will be the ones that will gain Great Power later. Remember, the AI "Knows" everything in the Game The AI is simply going along with the Rules that have been programed so it appears not to know

Auto-produced Units are the Best way to control the AI and its Unit Strengths. Set up Strong Units that YOU control when and how many the AI will have and in how many Cities. Then the AI can focus on building the Other Units you provide for it to build... otherwise the AI will simply build Hordes of the Best Units, leaving out all others. This can be accomplished in an Epic game by having the AI build a Wonder that places an improvement in all cities that requires a specific Resource to directly build that is Not available until later when you want the improvement to start Auto-producing a Powerful Unit. The improvements are there early but do not Auto-produce yet. The same Wonder can be set to place another improvement that is placed in all cities on the same continent that will also Auto-produce units when the required Resource is gained.

The AI will build Wonders from the start of the Game when it is easier. Set the Wonders so they build fast and entice the AI to build the Wonders by the Perks and Units they will gain from the start to later. This is more reliable than hoping the AI will build a Wonder later in game.

One of the Good things about this is that unlike other improvements, pre-placed improvements by a Wonder cannot be Bombarded away. IF the City that builds the Wonder is Captured, the improvements can be directly built and they can be set cheap to build. It is best to also set the Wonder to provide additional Strength for the City where it is located to help prevent that City from being easily captured.

You can provide Hordes of a specific Unit at a particular time for the AI by using the above technique.

Beyond this you can also have another early Wonder that places improvements the same as stated above but that require yet another resource that will be available later than the first pre-placed improvement. The Units this later improvement Auto-produces can be the same units that the first improvements Auto-produce but with another name and they can be set stronger if desired. This doubles the numbers of the same unit at a specific time and or allows an even greater unit to be added to the first, then both are Auto-produced for more power.

The AI loves increased Food and Shields in Water for example so this is something you can use to entice the AI to build a Wonder besides the improvements it provides. The same Wonder can also Start Auto-producing a Unit from the start that the improvement it places will start Auto-producing later.

If you want the AI to build Hordes of a Specific unit, set the unit to have Great Strength in Offense and or Defense and require No support.

Obviously, Faster Units are also something the AI Loves as those units can reach where they are going faster.

You can set Powerful Auto-produced units to be able to use "airports" to go to any of their cities in one turn, then the AI will send most of them to one of their cities close to where the AI wants to attack. The next turn, all of those units come after you Airports do not have to be set to allow Air Trade to connect buildings, just flag allows Veteran Air Units. Also you do not have to have these "Airports" named Airport. They can be a totally different thing that accomplishes allowing a unit to go from City to City. The Sewers in EFZI2 Complete is an example of this. Note that you can still have regular Airports with or without allowing Air Trade if desired as well.

You can set Powerful Units to be able to Airdrop at great distances. This is strong for the AI and a Player must cover all terrain tiles with a unit to prevent the AI from "airdropping" there. Again, like the Airports, you can name Airdrop something else if desired. In EFZI2 Complete, I call it "Unearthing" for particular Zombies to "Unearth" from any tile The AI Loves this and uses it well. This is especially strong when you combine this with the Auto-producing improvements that produce units that use "Airlift" and "Airdrop" because the units all go at once.

The AI loves Upgrades because they are generally faster and cheaper than building a new unit. Remember that Cost does not really affect the AI as much as the Unit strengths. IF the AI has a Unit that is strongest yet Very Expensive to build, it will try to build it anyway.

Keep in mind that Hit Points are the Most Powerful setting for strength. A lesser unit with more Hit Points will beat a stronger unit with fewer Hit Points. This is not only due to the unit with more Hit Points having basically more "lives" but also, if not mainly, because it helps avoid the "Random Factors" built into the Game that affect the results of a battle. What this means is IF you want a Unit to almost always Win a Battle, provide it with More Hit Points.

The AI will not use Land Transports or Artillery as a Human will so offset AI Power to rely on Numbers of Units, Airlift, Airdrop, Faster and more powerful Units to balance them against a Human Player especially if you use Lethal Artillery.

Set the AI up with improvements and or Wonders that also ease War Weariness.

Especially as your Game progresses, set the AI to have far more Power to offset the Power the Human Player will have. This is Very important for the end game to maintain a challenge to the end when a Human Player that has played well has almost Won.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Edited, as he posted as I was typing EFZI can certainly get irritating in an enjoyable way. It best emphasizes the quote that "the best laid plans never survive contact with the enemy."

 

[Ares de Borg]

Wow guys, excellent answers and so much wisdom!

The main thing that comes to mind for epic games is the staple of AI difficulty since Civ 1: making their stuff cheaper than ours. The simplest way for that is to make things much more expensive in general and adjust the AI bonuses in the difficulty tab so that things are dirt cheap for them. Nothing you don't already know and not the most eloquent solution, but surely the most reliable way to have the computer respond to later game human war production.

This is something I've done, but maybe I can still make some improvements.

One thing I've been messing with recently is a dragoon/mech infantry-style unit that has the offensive flag but defensive stats (medium attack and high defense).

Yes, that's indeed working. I have lots of units that have both flags checked, and this leads to often surprising results (for example, attacking tanks joined by MG teams).

Another item that comes to mind is Civinator's artillery and recon in SOE that can stealth attack your artillery and other offensive units. This can really blunt your attack when you're stuck in AI territory on the way to an enemy city.

I think Civinator's concept is very interesting and has its advantages, but I'm using a more classic approach, although boosted by a few tweaks. My arty has 2 movement points, for example, and Blitz.

I remember that in the classic scenario "Rood and the Dragon," Plotinus made the AI want to attack the Saxons because it's unique unit required three resources, all of which were only available on Saxon land. Seem to recall it made them desperate to get the resources, at all costs - but would need to be a pre-made map.

Indeed, this would require a pre-placed map.

The simplest way to be attacked and beaten, overrun, lag behind in technology is to give them different tech tree, with similar units like playable civs but cheaper and tech tree should be much shorter. For instance if in one era you have 30 techs for playable civ's then for AI (bad ass) make tech tree with 15 tech or less and whatever you do, AI will be always before you.

Interesting concept, but this would require to have at least one AI-only civilization. I prefer to have all civs playable.

I assume you will have at least one CIV that is only the AI and not playable by a Human in your Epic Game.

Nope, all civs are playable. This makes it harder to improve the AI I guess.

Invisible Units have Far Greater Attack Power with lesser settings due to the fact that the Defending Unit cannot see them The "Sneaky Zombie" in EFZI2 Complete is an example of this. Take care though, invisible units start wars because others can accidentally run into them.

I do have some invisible land units in my game and they are very nasty. Especially ninjas.

Auto-produced Units are the Best way to control the AI and its Unit Strengths.

I made some religious techs civ-specific. For example, only christian countries can build the crusades, which spawns a lot of powerful units to their arsenal.

The AI will build Wonders from the start of the Game when it is easier. Set the Wonders so they build fast and entice the AI to build the Wonders by the Perks and Units they will gain from the start to later. This is more reliable than hoping the AI will build a Wonder later in game.

I have noticed that the AI does indeed manage to build more wonders early in the game compared to the human player. In the later game, when the cities are larger and well-equipped with buildings, the human has the upper hand.

One of the Good things about this is that unlike other improvements, pre-placed improvements by a Wonder cannot be Bombarded away. IF the City that builds the Wonder is Captured, the improvements can be directly built and they can be set cheap to build. It is best to also set the Wonder to provide additional Strength for the City where it is located to help prevent that City from being easily captured.

Indeed, many of my military Great Wonders provide defense boni.

Beyond this you can also have another early Wonder that places improvements the same as stated above but that require yet another resource that will be available later than the first pre-placed improvement. The Units this later improvement Auto-produces can be the same units that the first improvements Auto-produce but with another name and they can be set stronger if desired. This doubles the numbers of the same unit at a specific time and or allows an even greater unit to be added to the first, then both are Auto-produced for more power.

Good idea, I need to see how this could work in an epic game.

The AI loves increased Food and Shields in Water for example so this is something you can use to entice the AI to build a Wonder besides the improvements it provides. The same Wonder can also Start Auto-producing a Unit from the start that the improvement it places will start Auto-producing later.

Exactly, coastal civs will usually have a better start early in the game and do not run out of funds so easily.

If you want the AI to build Hordes of a Specific unit, set the unit to have Great Strength in Offense and or Defense and require No support.

The "no support" option is often forgotten about, but it's a great choice for weaker units, for example peasants or militia.

Obviously, Faster Units are also something the AI Loves as those units can reach where they are going faster.

Correct, and it looks like they will send them along with other units more likely if they have at least 2 MP.

The AI loves Upgrades because they are generally faster and cheaper than building a new unit. Remember that Cost does not really affect the AI as much as the Unit strengths. IF the AI has a Unit that is strongest yet Very Expensive to build, it will try to build it anyway.

Yes, but it needs easy access to buildings allowing upgrades. This is why I made shipyards dirt cheap, for example.

Keep in mind that Hit Points are the Most Powerful setting for strength.

Correct, I had some success with additional HP on warships and armored units.

 

[Yoda Power]

Impressive post by Vuldacon.

I'll stick to random map mods for my points.

1) The AI is usually very strong with agricultural civilizations. In the WH mod you get no tile penalty right from the beginning and here it is even more obvious. Having a lot of agricultural civs will level the playing field more. (But will be a disadvantedge for AI civs that are not Agricultural)

2) The AI is not good at using artillery. Don't have too strong artillery units in the game.

3) As I wrote before: don't add "weird" units. Units that serve only very special purposes are not usually well handled by the AI.

4) Naval warfare: the AI always guards their transport ships when war ships become available. It's good to have a war ship available in the ancient era (as opposed to having to wait for Frigates in the unmodded game).

5) The AI is not good with overseas land invasions. However, they can handle amphibious assaults fine. Increasing the number of amphibious units will pose a threat to your coastal cities. Also make sure these units have a decent defense so the city is harder to take back in the following turn.

6) Diplomacy: This is a tricky one, because things like MA and MPP are an advantedge to the AI when they are stronger than you, but a disadvantedge when you are stronger than them. If you play a game where you can count on them being bigger in terms of units and cities, make sure they have diplomacy available to them.

7) Techs: People like to add specific technologies. But remember! The AI does best when they can trade techs. As a rule of thumb: the less specific techs the stronger the AI's in the tech race. If you add specific techs, maybe make sure they are not confined to one civ, but atleast are researchable/tradeable by more civs.

8) Stay away from untradeable techs. See above for explanation.

9) The AI will build settlers that finish even when city is still size 2. I haven't experienced with this, but perhaps lowering the pop cost of settlers will help the AI's early expansion. Could be a major advatedge to the human player too though.


That's all I got now. I'll add more when I think of it.

Why would you want to do this?

Because it's pretty easy to beat the AI as it is? There's really no fun in playing a game you know you can win.

 

[Jorsalfare]

I use invisible units that also have hidden nationality. This means a less volatile world, since they will not trigger a war when stumbled upon (AI civs that constantly declares war on each other gives the human player an advantage IMO). AI uses these invisible units very well and build them often (provided they can attack and pillage), so I have reduced the attack strength to be able to keep them in check. They are quite a nuisance as they wander around capturing settlers and workers and pillaging tile improvements. They sometimes attack cities, but doesn't capture it after defeating the last defender. However, if a city is undefended, an invisible AI-unit can (and will) capture it, while a human invisible unit can't (for example: a city surrendered by AI in a peace treaty is undefended, and can be re-captured by an AI invisible unit without declaration of war).

 

[timerover51]

Because it's pretty easy to beat the AI as it is? There's really no fun in playing a game you know you can win.

I believe that I addressed the question to Ares de Borg, and not to the individual named Yoda Power.

 

[Ares de Borg]

Thanks again for the imput. Great contributions here!

1) The AI is usually very strong with agricultural civilizations. In the WH mod you get no tile penalty right from the beginning and here it is even more obvious. Having a lot of agricultural civs will level the playing field more. (But will be a disadvantedge for AI civs that are not Agricultural)

This is also my observation. Same goes with seafaring and industrial civilizations. I granted one additional trait to each civ, and it's paying off.

2) The AI is not good at using artillery. Don't have too strong artillery units in the game.

Yes, there is a risk of human misuse, but I had some nice moments when trying to make an advance against a city bristling with 8.8 guns and arty. One has to mod arty, though.

3) As I wrote before: don't add "weird" units. Units that serve only very special purposes are not usually well handled by the AI.

Granted.

4) Naval warfare: the AI always guards their transport ships when war ships become available. It's good to have a war ship available in the ancient era (as opposed to having to wait for Frigates in the unmodded game).

In my experience it's also useful to reduce the price of transports AND increase their transport capacity. Armed transports can also profit from bombardment points, making convoy attacks more risky for the aggressor.

5) The AI is not good with overseas land invasions. However, they can handle amphibious assaults fine. Increasing the number of amphibious units will pose a threat to your coastal cities. Also make sure these units have a decent defense so the city is harder to take back in the following turn.

Good point!

6) Diplomacy: This is a tricky one, because things like MA and MPP are an advantedge to the AI when they are stronger than you, but a disadvantedge when you are stronger than them. If you play a game where you can count on them being bigger in terms of units and cities, make sure they have diplomacy available to them.

The problem is that you cannot be sure if they will be stronger, and unnecessary wars often weaken the AI especially in MP games where the human players usually team up against the AI.

7) Techs: People like to add specific technologies. But remember! The AI does best when they can trade techs. As a rule of thumb: the less specific techs the stronger the AI's in the tech race. If you add specific techs, maybe make sure they are not confined to one civ, but atleast are researchable/tradeable by more civs.

Another good point - this is how I handle religions, for example.

9) The AI will build settlers that finish even when city is still size 2. I haven't experienced with this, but perhaps lowering the pop cost of settlers will help the AI's early expansion. Could be a major advatedge to the human player too though.

It can help if you have civ-specific settlers, for example for the mongols who are supposed to expand like crazy.

Why would you want to do this?

To make the game more challenging and increase the fun.

 

[Ares de Borg]

Let's have a look at the editor as well - are there any changes to the difficulty settings that you can recommend (additional boni, trade rates, cost factor etc)?

 

[Big Bopper]

In order to make sure the Russians and Germans are always the strongest civs in my games; I have in their civ pages 'Build Often: Offensive Land Units' and nothing else checked.

 

[timerover51]

If you want to make the AI a killer, then freeze your civilization in the Middles Ages and let the AI progress as far as it wants. Also setting the Barbarians to Raging, and their units to say Legionary/Sipahi/Battleship, all with boosted hitpoints, should assist in making the AI a real killer.

Oh, and never build any barracks or granaries.

 

[Ozymandias]

Alexman had some good ideas back in the day. (And HERE as well.)

... Alexman really was/is quite helpful: his thoughts on Value Changes To Help The AI is also quite good.

He also opined about The key to AI greatness.

I also find Sulla's Critique of Civ3 interesting to ponder. His Thoughts On Exploits is also worth a read.

Some interesting propositions are made by ILA in his "Love For The AI Mod", specifically on Defending against rushes, Improving tiles, Managing corruption, Industrialization, and Handling artillery-units (well, of course there's much floating around the forums about that last one ...)

Here's to ya, Amigo, and I look forward to (*cough*) you posting your conclusions.


All The Best,

Oz

 

[Yoda Power]

In my experience it's also useful to reduce the price of transports AND increase their transport capacity. Armed transports can also profit from bombardment points, making convoy attacks more risky for the aggressor.

Good thinking. How high do you set the highest transport in capacity?

The problem is that you cannot be sure if they will be stronger, and unnecessary wars often weaken the AI especially in MP games where the human players usually team up against the AI.

Exactly. I guess it depends on the level you're playing on.

It can help if you have civ-specific settlers, for example for the mongols who are supposed to expand like crazy.

Does this not pose a threat to the balance between AI's? That is, if one civ always have a settler advantedge compared to some others?

I believe that I addressed the question to Ares de Borg, and not to the individual named Yoda Power.

This is an open discussion forum and I weren't being impolite.

 

[timerover51]

Rest assured that I will make no more posts to this thread.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

9) The AI will build settlers that finish even when city is still size 2. I haven't experienced with this, but perhaps lowering the pop cost of settlers will help the AI's early expansion. Could be a major advatedge to the human player too though.

Along this line of thought... Ares, you mentioned once that you use population costs as a limiting factor for some units, like capital ships. I wonder if you can elaborate on that a little. If certain power units have high population costs, will the AI still try to build them and get stuck? If a battleship costs 30 pop, will the computer attempt to build it at all?

As far as transports go, I'm starting to get away from the regular set-up of 'hard outer shell and chewy center' for escorts and transports. In WW2 Global, there are Allied convoy units that I thought were absurdly overpowered with high hit points. Turns out the AI loves them and is building them and loading them with big invasion armies, and they are not easy to kill. So higher defense may be a good feature to add alongside low cost/high capacity/bombard rating for transports.

Oz, you are an archival genius. Thanks for the great links.