Help on Sid Game

[Donny Brook]

I'm pretty sure the exploit is the GL elevator. Remember in post 1, the author says he has built it. Sorry Spoonwood, I know you were hoping for something new.

 

[Spoonwood]

Maybe you're right, but the GL elevator I'd think well-known to the public at the time here, since SirPleb's thread came out a little more than a year before... and I'd expect it as one of the most widely read threads at the time. Also, Gyathaar says

A lot depends on how far you want to stretch the game rules... I decided to try some highly questionable techniques (prolly banned in HoF and GoTM) and I was able to catch up to the AIs and reach tech parity in 5 turns.. (210AD)

The GL elevator definitely came as allowed in GOTM and HoF games at the time, so far as I can see. Additionally, Own says in the first thread

I've been playing the greatest sid game I've ever played. I'm the Mayans. I had an incredible expansion phase, and a very good early war, managed to get a couple cities and the GL, gettin me to education.

, and you can't use it once you already know Education. At least so far as I know, I haven't tested it. I thought Gyathaar used a post-education save, but I'm not sure. So how could the 'exploit' be the Great Library elevator?

 

[CKS]

No, I think that he is talking about one of the infinite shields or infinite wealth tricks. I don't remember how they work. If you look in the hall of fame forbidden list they are called Mobilization Exploit, Infinite Map Trading, and Gold Mine. There may be others.

 

[Spoonwood]

Well I tried the Inifnite Map Trading thing, and even if you get one map from an AI, then switch to another and get his/her map also, then switch back to the first AI it looks like they fixed that "exploit" for Conquests.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

It is probably something along the lines of the so-called wossname-agreement and like techniques where you make sure that some deals are broken right away while, ideally, others last the full 20 turns. Killed civs, broken trade routes, boot orders, careless espionage, etc are good ways to get rid of deals that would cost you a fortune if they were to last.

 

[Donny Brook]

Gyathaar- For kicks I reloaded the game farther back then tried the exploit. It's so cool! But I didn't got to steam power to reveal the coal location.

This made me think it was the elevator but I agree I'm probably mistaken.

The war has been going great, already taken the 2 cities that flipped, and will have incense soon. I could use the "exploit" on Russia, but the cultural threat elimination is more important, so I'm completely killing them.

This seems to be the best clue about what exploit they're talking about though I have no idea which one. Apparently you use it "on" someone.

 

[Spoonwood]

Own explained to me what he remembered as the exploit. I don't know if I should explain it, because Own and Gyaathar wanted to keep it a secret. Then again, I don't know why Gyaathar wanted to keep it a secret. Since it's neither legal in the HoF or any XOTM competition, I think I may as well explain it, though I'll delete/edit this message if anyone has any problem with me explaining it.

Find a civ which doesn't know a tech that you know, which has an extra resource or luxury. Pay them as much as you want/can for that resources or luxury in gpt. Then sell them a tech for that gpt you just gave them. Finally, cut your trade route to them (either by pillaging your borders, or pillaging the squares around your capital), to cancel the first deal where you payed them gpt. With that gpt he then buys techs. So, that's how Gyaathar got +1710 gpt on a standard map in 210 AD and caught up in 5 turns.

It's too bad the save no longer exists. I wonder how long on that map it would take to catch up via a skillful use of using gpt for upfront goods and tech(s), then disconnecting the trade route and keeping the tech(s) for free. I think Gyaathar used that in his diplomatic Sid game in the HoF.

 

[Delphi456]

Thanks for posting this Spoonwood, but I think there must be more to it than this.

I did some testing in my current emp game:

Test 1: Paid 51 gpt to Aztec for Ivory (the min they would accept). Got 60gpt from Aztec for tech (the max they would pay).

Test 2: Paid 200 gpt to Aztec for Ivory (even though they would accept 51 gpt). Still only got 60 gpt from Aztc for tech.

Assume I pillage the trade route b/t me and Aztec in both tests.

The only benefit of this exploit would be if Aztecs didn't already have the gpt to pay for the tech in the first place - in which case they would have to dig into their cash reserves. If they already HAVE the 60 gpt to spend, then the Ivory trade component is completely unneccesary. Am I missing something?

Edit:
Wouldn't it be better if I had the resource/lux to trade? I could trade it for a tech or cash(assuming it would be the 3rd, 4th or 5th lux for the AI). Pillage the trade route. Rinse and repeat.

Edit#2: Actually, I think my previous edit would cause a rep hit. So that idea is out.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

The problem with first giving the AI cash is that this is what is outlawed under HoF rules as "putting free money in the economy." Trust me.

'Buying' techs and cash for 'free' is OK. Taking the gpt that the AI make 'on their own' is OK as well. Giving them gpt beyond what they make and taking that as well is not.

 

[Spoonwood]

Thanks for posting this Spoonwood, but I think there must be more to it than this.

I did some testing in my current emp game

Maybe you're right, but I would hesistate to deem a test like this conclusive unless it gets done at Sid level. Also, sometime it might not result in the AI having more gpt for various reasons and sometimes it might. There might exist a threshold at which point the AI changes its science slider.