Ok, I've gotten myself into a sticky position in a game I'm playing, and I'd really like to solicit discussion/debate on what the best course of action is to take.
I'm the Americans in a world map game, and even though I'm definitely the world superpower, I'm still in a slightly sticky situation. I've played up to modern times, and about 20 turns ago, the Persians suddenly became furious with me. They ended up going to war with the Babylonians, their bitter enemies since ancient times - in fact they had razed the Babylonian capital of Babylon in a war long ago. Wanting to keep the Persians away from the Arabs - who were on the other side of the Babylonians from the Persians - because the Arabs were selling me oil, I decided to sell some resources and warlike technologies to the Babylonians so that they could hold off the Persians.
The war seemed to end in a stalemate, with the Babylonians perhaps having a slight upperhand, just like I wanted. After 8 turns of war they stopped fighting, and both civs seemed to be low on cash.
I thought that I was going to be able to cruise along peacefully, with my nice secure source of oil from the Arabs, with me being their friends. But no, the Babylonians suddenly decided to attack the Arabs. I guess they probably made a demand from them since the Babylonians seem to need cash after their economy was ravaged by the war.
The Babylonians quickly ran over a couple of Arab cities - with the tanks that my resources and techs that my trading with them allowed them to build, no less! - but then slowed down after that. They had already siezed a source of oil off the Arabs, and I was afraid they were going to get more, so I used my RoP with the Arabs to quickly move substantial forces into the region, holding them off from attacking the Arabs.
After that I made an alliance with most of the other nations in the world, including my good friends the English, French, and Germans against the Babylonians. We attacked with jet fighters and cruise missiles and very quickly took back the cities that had been taken from the Arabs. I wasn't sure whether to continue prosecuting a war against them.
I considered it a little, and decided I would just regift the taken cities back to the Arabs, and then make peace with the Babylonians. I kept a military presence in the region using my RoP with the Arabs, so that if the Babylonians tried the same thing again, I could stop them more effectively.
But now, about 10 turns later, I'm not sure I made the right choice. I'm getting attacked by these units with hidden identity (I play with a mod that uses some land units with hidden identity as well as privateers), and I think they might be coming from the Babylonians. Also, I think the Babylonians are getting close to discovering fission, which would of course, let them build nuclear weapons.
I'm also having trouble with the Koreans, who DO have fission, although I'm not sure if they've constructed any actual nukes yet. They are certainly not going to get ICBMs anytime soon, but they could easily target tactical nukes at some colonies I got south of Korea in an earlier war, or at nearby Japan who are my good friends.
Anyhow, I really don't trust Babylon at all, and I'd hate to see them get nuclear weapons, and I think they're the ones sending these hidden-nationality attackers against me. So, I decided to attack them and try to wipe them out. I decided I'd take their cities and then either gift them to the Arabs - especially since a high proportion of the population in some of the cities are Arabs, and they might flip to them anyway - or keep them myself.
I worried about Persia then getting too strong and being able to attack the Arabs or other civilizations in the region, but I'm more scared of the Babylonians at this stage so I'll take them out and then think about Persia.
So I landed some more troops on Arab territory, preparing to attack the Babylonians again. This time I would wipe them out. I went to meet my allies to see if they'd come and support me. My good friends the English would, but France and Germany wouldn't, and became 'annoyed' with me!
In fact, no-one else would ally with me against the Arabs other than the English. I had managed to build the UN in New York, and was thinking of holding the election when the vote came up, but with these attitudes I realized I had no hope of winning, so I decided not to take the UN vote.
I started getting impatient to attack the Babylonians - forces were arriving by ship and being airlifted to an airfield I had built in the area, but things were moving along slowly! I consulted my military advisor, and he told me that my forces were strong compared to those of Babylon. My science advisor told me that my forces are advanced! So, I decided I would go in with a smaller force. If I didn't have to move in so much military, then I would be able to do the same kind of thing later against my two other main enemies: the Persians and the Koreans, while moving in such a big force was just too slow and costly.
I had a force to the south of Babylonia, and a force at sea to the west. I would have to go through Arabia to come from the south, which was no problem since I had a RoP with them, and I'd have to go past the Ottomans to get there from the west, I assumed it'd be pretty easy to get a RoP with the Ottomans. I got into talks with them, but for all I was willing to offer this turn, they were only "close to making a deal here". I decided that with some more luxuries I was securing elsewhere in the world, I could probably renegotiate in a couple of turns and get the deal.
So, war was declared. I started launching cruise missiles and bombing the Babylonian cities immediately. Then I moved in my force of Modern Armors, Mechanized Infantry, and Marines in from the south.
I tried to get the RoP deal with the Ottomans going, but they just wouldn't get past "close to a deal here" unless I gave them some serious techs which I just wasn't going to do! Bah.
I had some paratroopers which I managed to land on the north side of the Babylonians, while the rest of the force had to move around to try to get in from the south.
I continued to attack with cruise missiles and bombers, and then slowly marched my combined ground force into their territory. They put up more resistance than I thought though. People really are right when they say that older obsolete units can fight so unrealistically well against modern units. It's silly!
I think the Babylonians even pillaged the road onto the oil so I couldn't use
itimmediately! Gee the levels they'll stoop to. They were also willing to
disband workers rather than having me able to capture them.
Here's the screenshot of the situation:
Notice how the Babylonian capital is now the former-Arab city of Baghdad after many ancient wars between the Persians, Babylonians, and Arabs!
Meanwhile, war weariness really kicks in, and some of my cities go into civil disorder. I just click "who cares? Let them riot!" for a few turns, because I'm too busy managing the war to worry about them.
Anyhow, what I want to know, is what should I do next? I like to play an honorable style of play, and I'm really not sure if I'm being honorable, especially since my actions are causing the Babylonians to disband (which I think is a Civ euphemism for 'kill') some civilians, and my bombing is killing civilians in some Babylonian cities.
Also, the Babylonians are a Despotism (even though that's supposely their 'loathed' form of government!), while I'm a nice honorable Democracy. The Koreans are in Communism. Both of them seem to rush build things regularly by wiping out population!
I also want to know from a strategic point of view what I should do next. My head tells me that Korea is a far worse threat than Babylon, but I really don't like Hammurabi for some reason, but I can't put my finger on it! I'd like to see an interesting and thorough debate as to what I should do next from this situation!
Just to clarify, I am NOT sure if the 'hidden nationality' units are actually coming from the Babylonians. Do people think I should wait until I'm sure they're responsible before attacking them? What if I wipe them out and more still come? Maybe I should try to wipe out the Persians and/or Koreans after that?
-Sirp.
I'm the Americans in a world map game, and even though I'm definitely the world superpower, I'm still in a slightly sticky situation. I've played up to modern times, and about 20 turns ago, the Persians suddenly became furious with me. They ended up going to war with the Babylonians, their bitter enemies since ancient times - in fact they had razed the Babylonian capital of Babylon in a war long ago. Wanting to keep the Persians away from the Arabs - who were on the other side of the Babylonians from the Persians - because the Arabs were selling me oil, I decided to sell some resources and warlike technologies to the Babylonians so that they could hold off the Persians.
The war seemed to end in a stalemate, with the Babylonians perhaps having a slight upperhand, just like I wanted. After 8 turns of war they stopped fighting, and both civs seemed to be low on cash.
I thought that I was going to be able to cruise along peacefully, with my nice secure source of oil from the Arabs, with me being their friends. But no, the Babylonians suddenly decided to attack the Arabs. I guess they probably made a demand from them since the Babylonians seem to need cash after their economy was ravaged by the war.
The Babylonians quickly ran over a couple of Arab cities - with the tanks that my resources and techs that my trading with them allowed them to build, no less! - but then slowed down after that. They had already siezed a source of oil off the Arabs, and I was afraid they were going to get more, so I used my RoP with the Arabs to quickly move substantial forces into the region, holding them off from attacking the Arabs.
After that I made an alliance with most of the other nations in the world, including my good friends the English, French, and Germans against the Babylonians. We attacked with jet fighters and cruise missiles and very quickly took back the cities that had been taken from the Arabs. I wasn't sure whether to continue prosecuting a war against them.
I considered it a little, and decided I would just regift the taken cities back to the Arabs, and then make peace with the Babylonians. I kept a military presence in the region using my RoP with the Arabs, so that if the Babylonians tried the same thing again, I could stop them more effectively.
But now, about 10 turns later, I'm not sure I made the right choice. I'm getting attacked by these units with hidden identity (I play with a mod that uses some land units with hidden identity as well as privateers), and I think they might be coming from the Babylonians. Also, I think the Babylonians are getting close to discovering fission, which would of course, let them build nuclear weapons.
I'm also having trouble with the Koreans, who DO have fission, although I'm not sure if they've constructed any actual nukes yet. They are certainly not going to get ICBMs anytime soon, but they could easily target tactical nukes at some colonies I got south of Korea in an earlier war, or at nearby Japan who are my good friends.
Anyhow, I really don't trust Babylon at all, and I'd hate to see them get nuclear weapons, and I think they're the ones sending these hidden-nationality attackers against me. So, I decided to attack them and try to wipe them out. I decided I'd take their cities and then either gift them to the Arabs - especially since a high proportion of the population in some of the cities are Arabs, and they might flip to them anyway - or keep them myself.
I worried about Persia then getting too strong and being able to attack the Arabs or other civilizations in the region, but I'm more scared of the Babylonians at this stage so I'll take them out and then think about Persia.
So I landed some more troops on Arab territory, preparing to attack the Babylonians again. This time I would wipe them out. I went to meet my allies to see if they'd come and support me. My good friends the English would, but France and Germany wouldn't, and became 'annoyed' with me!
In fact, no-one else would ally with me against the Arabs other than the English. I had managed to build the UN in New York, and was thinking of holding the election when the vote came up, but with these attitudes I realized I had no hope of winning, so I decided not to take the UN vote.
I started getting impatient to attack the Babylonians - forces were arriving by ship and being airlifted to an airfield I had built in the area, but things were moving along slowly! I consulted my military advisor, and he told me that my forces were strong compared to those of Babylon. My science advisor told me that my forces are advanced! So, I decided I would go in with a smaller force. If I didn't have to move in so much military, then I would be able to do the same kind of thing later against my two other main enemies: the Persians and the Koreans, while moving in such a big force was just too slow and costly.
I had a force to the south of Babylonia, and a force at sea to the west. I would have to go through Arabia to come from the south, which was no problem since I had a RoP with them, and I'd have to go past the Ottomans to get there from the west, I assumed it'd be pretty easy to get a RoP with the Ottomans. I got into talks with them, but for all I was willing to offer this turn, they were only "close to making a deal here". I decided that with some more luxuries I was securing elsewhere in the world, I could probably renegotiate in a couple of turns and get the deal.
So, war was declared. I started launching cruise missiles and bombing the Babylonian cities immediately. Then I moved in my force of Modern Armors, Mechanized Infantry, and Marines in from the south.
I tried to get the RoP deal with the Ottomans going, but they just wouldn't get past "close to a deal here" unless I gave them some serious techs which I just wasn't going to do! Bah.
I had some paratroopers which I managed to land on the north side of the Babylonians, while the rest of the force had to move around to try to get in from the south.
I continued to attack with cruise missiles and bombers, and then slowly marched my combined ground force into their territory. They put up more resistance than I thought though. People really are right when they say that older obsolete units can fight so unrealistically well against modern units. It's silly!
I think the Babylonians even pillaged the road onto the oil so I couldn't use
itimmediately! Gee the levels they'll stoop to. They were also willing to
disband workers rather than having me able to capture them.
Here's the screenshot of the situation:
Notice how the Babylonian capital is now the former-Arab city of Baghdad after many ancient wars between the Persians, Babylonians, and Arabs!
Meanwhile, war weariness really kicks in, and some of my cities go into civil disorder. I just click "who cares? Let them riot!" for a few turns, because I'm too busy managing the war to worry about them.
Anyhow, what I want to know, is what should I do next? I like to play an honorable style of play, and I'm really not sure if I'm being honorable, especially since my actions are causing the Babylonians to disband (which I think is a Civ euphemism for 'kill') some civilians, and my bombing is killing civilians in some Babylonian cities.
Also, the Babylonians are a Despotism (even though that's supposely their 'loathed' form of government!), while I'm a nice honorable Democracy. The Koreans are in Communism. Both of them seem to rush build things regularly by wiping out population!
I also want to know from a strategic point of view what I should do next. My head tells me that Korea is a far worse threat than Babylon, but I really don't like Hammurabi for some reason, but I can't put my finger on it! I'd like to see an interesting and thorough debate as to what I should do next from this situation!
Just to clarify, I am NOT sure if the 'hidden nationality' units are actually coming from the Babylonians. Do people think I should wait until I'm sure they're responsible before attacking them? What if I wipe them out and more still come? Maybe I should try to wipe out the Persians and/or Koreans after that?
-Sirp.
I say, NUKE THE PLANET!
)
