Help!!!

[CO0PS]

Hello people!

I have recently bought Civilization IV: The Complete Edition, and have started playing it.

I am writing this post today to ask for help for newcomers from veterans and people with good strategies. I have had a look around the forums already but the new player guide seems to be a bit too vague.

The main problem I have is on warlord difficulty (the third one I think!). On chieftain and settler I win with ease, however on warlord I struggle. At the start of the game I lead until about 800/900 AD, but then the opposition seem to gain some kind of advantage which isn't therefor me, thus leapfrogging me and leaving me near the bottom of the score.

Please help folks, and any help is good help.
Cheers

 

[Crusher1]

Read the guide in my signature.

 

[Matthew5117]

First off, welcome to the forums, CO0PS!

Secondly, the new player guide is not all there is here. In fact, I've never heard of that guide so I assume it nearly isn't as good as the ones shown on this website.

To state there are the:

Sisiutil's Strategy Guide for Beginners:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=165632

War Academy (many articles about many things, I highly suggest you to check this out):
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/

And Game Guides (so you can read along and find out how expert players play the game, I suggest you to read the ALCs, the RPCs, and the KotWs)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=258697

As well as many other things.

The other thing you can do is post a game here on CivFanatics and us users will help you play the game and give you advice on how to improve your game.

This is unrelated to you CO0PS...

Mods we really need a thread stickied that provides at least these links so that new comers don't have to ask, not that's its a bother to me but I think its a bother to them.

 

[troytheface]

i suggest attack early, steal workers, raze enemy cities

build twice as many units as you think you need

don't overestimate the ai- kill it before it starts to build


"never undersetimate a man that overestimates himself"
president talking about mccaurther

 

[AndrewN]

Don't worry, we get a lot of these posts .

A good thing for you to do is to upload a save of one of your games so a few people here can take a look at it. Unfortunately the game is very complex and you original post is a bit vague so we can't give you specific advice without more information, and the easiest way is a save.

Having said that there is some general mistakes the new player makes, so here goes.

Workers. The exact number of workers you need is still argued about, but it is generally agreed you need at least 1.5 per city. You should not be working unimproved tiles if at all possible, the only acceptable exceptions are forested tiles for the extra hammer and oasis's.

Cottages. The cottage improvement looks weak, but it isn't. There are other ways of getting commerce but the cottage is the easiest to master. The cottage should be the most common type of tile improvement you build.

Expansion. You need to build as many cities as you can. Don't worry about the research rate going down more cities will produce more of everything. It is a difficult to master the rate of expansion but at your level it is difficult to completely crash your economy. Also don't build your cities too far apart, good city location is another skill you will need to master.

You can also take a look at others games that are posted on this site, download their example games too see how others play the game.

 

[Matthew5117]

i suggest attack early, steal workers, raze enemy cities

build twice as many units as you think you need

don't overestimate the ai- kill it before it starts to build


"never undersetimate a man that overestimates himself"
president talking about mccaurther

Just to let you know CO0PS, troytheface has been known to be sarcastic in many of his posts.

As in, don't take his advice seriously. Although, in some cases it can be useful.

 

[mboettcher]

Not only read the Guides but I suggest reading the list of terms used in these forums.

Also learning all the economy types (there are many) and how they mesh with tech progress and the era you are in as well as each leader's traits and to a lesser degree each Civ's UU/UB. You should know what all these economies are (and more I'm sure I can't think of): WE/SSE (Wonder economy/Super specialist economy), EE (Espionage Economy), CE (Cottage Economy), SE (Specialist Economy), FE (farm economy), RE (religious economy), Hammer Economy, Trade Route Economy, Corporate E, Super City E, Isolationist E and State Prop E. Many of these are primary economies and many are subsets. You probably would end up running a hybrid of several of these at the late stage of the game and could end up running most of them over the course of a successful game.

Traits really have more of an impact than UB as far as economics go (opinion).

Also I suspect you build too many wonders. Learn which wonders work with each economy and build only those that you really need. (sometimes, though not on lower difficulties, its easier to let the AI build a wonder for you and then take it from them)

Also read the guide on diplomacy so you don't get dog piled and have many tech trading partners (I assume you fall behind in tech because the AI trades a lot of theirs and you don't trade any. Don't be afraid to sell your tech short as long as you sell it many times.)

Most starter guides can be found in the war academy in the left side menu of the forum's front page

I'd suggest mastering one leader as much as possible and all the things that work well for him.

For example: Bismark of Germany

He is Expansive and Industrious, germany starts with hunting and mining and has Assembly plant and Panzers.

With industrious comes cheap forges and wonders, while expansive has cheap harbors and granaries.

Now granaries and forges are really powerful early on. With forges (unlocked by expensive early tech Metal Casting) you can not only amp hammers by 25% but this affects hammers gained by chopping forests and whipping as well. Granaries let you keep all your food after you whip some population (when using slavery civic) and grow back to size quickly.

Bismark also starts with a scout

Try this for starters. RUn that scout around (manually) and get as many cottages as possible. You'll likely get 2-3 techs. Research Bronze working (which is strong for bismark as it is unlocked by his starting tech mining) first then agriculture, wheel, mysticism, meditation, priesthood and pottery. In that order.

With priesthood you can use Bismark's Industrious trait to build oracle (wonder that gives one free tech) quickly. If you finish researching pottery before (its a prerequisite technology to Metal Casting) you finish oracle you can take the very expensive tech Metal casting and build yourself many cheap forges and granaries (which were made available by pottery). Switch to the Slavery civic and you now have your first powerful economy up and running and probably a huge advantage over the AI.

Learn how to use the slavery civic to quickly build infrastructure, settlers, and armies quickly. You can have a massive empire before any one is ready

 

[SeptimusOctopus]

As others have said a good idea would be to just start up a game on the forums and ask for advice along the way. Also, are you automating your workers? If so, that's probably ok for the lower levels, and while you're getting used to the game, but in general automated workers do some screwy things.

It's tough to say without seeing a screen shot or save, but I'd assume that boost you notice your rivals getting is due to their cottages becoming towns, plus them trading techs. When I started I hated tech trades; the AI always seem to want to scam you, but it turns out to be an essential key to success on higher difficulties.

 

[goldenhero]

As mentioned earlier, posting a save game would be immensely helpful for people here to help you. My advice (which you should look to others for, because I'm only a noble/prince player lol) is to build cities until you run a deficit at 30-40% research, and build lots of cottages to help support your economy. It's very generic advice, but it should help on warlord. Also, do NOT automate your workers. Very bad idea. Look up the guide on how to specialize cities, I've found this very helpful. Most of all though, just ask questions here. People here are very helpful! Welcome to the forums

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

actually, the 5 first advices of Troy are pretty sound...

 

[Kullervo]

I completely agree with Mboetcher (sorry if I butchered the name). Choose your starting civilization very carefully... my personal favorite is Bismark/Germany, because he is expansionist and industrial. That means that at any point in the game, I practically have no worry about health, and I build wonders and such very quickly.
My advice to you is this: Early in the game, built the very primary wonders (I go with Stonehenge and the Pyramids) and then build about 3 more cities. After that, almost halt expansion, and make your most productive city (the one with the most hammers: usually your capital) work solely on wonder output, while the rest of the three cities work on maintenance and units and such. About when you're researching stuff like Feudalism, start letting other cities build wonders as well, distribute people like Great Engineers and Scientists evenly throughout your empire. Begin expanding again.

Also, get some religion early in the game. If you have a holy city, your religion will spread to nearby civs, who will be more amiable towards you, and give you MUCH better deals on new techs and resources.

Hope this helps you: I am playing at Emperor difficulty with this strategy, and almost always win.

 

[Matthew5117]

I completely agree with Mboetcher (sorry if I butchered the name). Choose your starting civilization very carefully... my personal favorite is Bismark/Germany, because he is expansionist and industrial. That means that at any point in the game, I practically have no worry about health, and I build wonders and such very quickly.
My advice to you is this: Early in the game, built the very primary wonders (I go with Stonehenge and the Pyramids) and then build about 3 more cities. After that, almost halt expansion, and make your most productive city (the one with the most hammers: usually your capital) work solely on wonder output, while the rest of the three cities work on maintenance and units and such. About when you're researching stuff like Feudalism, start letting other cities build wonders as well, distribute people like Great Engineers and Scientists evenly throughout your empire. Begin expanding again.

Also, get some religion early in the game. If you have a holy city, your religion will spread to nearby civs, who will be more amiable towards you, and give you MUCH better deals on new techs and resources.

Hope this helps you: I am playing at Emperor difficulty with this strategy, and almost always win.

Welcome to the Forums, Kullervo (sorry if i butchered the name )

I'm not so sure if I agree with your tactics, early wonders can be very costly. The Pyramids alone can make 5 settlers. I also often decline founding religions because they can be very hard to maintain and if not achieved, can be very diplomatically negative. I usually let the other civs do the religion for me and capture their great shrines afterwards.

That being said, this is with my own style of game. I'm not sure if this is only me, or is everyone, but my point is, these strategies (listed by me and kullevro) may not be optimal for everyone.

 

[mboettcher]

@Kullervo

I was really talking more about limiting wonders and only building the ones that can absolutely help

I was talking about Rexing and leveraging the cheap forges and granaries of Bisamrk to whip a supporting economy to pay for those cities

 

[mboettcher]

The only wonder I'd really suggest as having great synergy and low cost for him would be the Oracle

 

[Matthew5117]

@Kullervo

I was really talking more about limiting wonders and only building the ones that can absolutely help

Every wonder absolutely help, but its a matter if you really need it or not. The Oracle, is VERY useful in many situations, and can change the game dramatically.

 

[CO0PS]

Thanks guys for the help so far!
I have just finished playing a game with Saladin, but the same problem still occurs. I have attached the replay. However,the replay doesn't show the area I started in was low in resources and some may say I was disadvantaged from the start.
Cheers guys and keep up the helpful info

 

[Ghpstage]

Thanks guys for the help so far!
I have just finished playing a game with Saladin, but the same problem still occurs. I have attached the replay. However,the replay doesn't show the area I started in was low in resources and some may say I was disadvantaged from the start.
Cheers guys and keep up the helpful info

Its extremely difficult to try to look at a game from the endgame replay .
But I gave it a go anyway.

Religion
Most people would advise against trying to found the early religions (Hinduism, Buddhism and Judaism). There are a few reasons for this:-

-Founding these religions requires you to go for the techs (meditation etc) early, delaying important worker techs like Bronze Working and Animal Husbandry.

-Having an early religion doesn't really offer many benefits, the +1 is nice, but on Warlord it will likely be barely noticeable. The other things (monasteries etc) need a decent infrastructure and more techs to get. Without those worker techs it won't help you much!

-It's much easier to just have a religion spread from a neighbour, you gain all the benefits except the shrine, and you gain a friend. As said by Matthew5117 you can take the shrine later if you really want it

While it is quite possible to get a lot from an early religion, more often than not it will slow you down.

The Rest

-From the replay it looks as though you are equalish in tech at the liberalism region, then fall behind later. More than likely this is caused by having too few workers, also try building lots of cottages with your workers. Lots of cottages should allow you to blow the Warlord tech rate away.

-Your early expansion is a little slow, build more settlers!

-Alex attacking you is due to you being low in power. Check the power graphs under the demographics screen (F9) from time to time to chek how you stand against the world.


These 3 are likely linked to the next thing though. The dreaded WONDER addiction! Don't worry though just about everyone has had it at some point, its like chicken pox .

Before you start building a wonder ask yourself, "what is this wonder going to do for me?" and "what do I need to do to gedt the most from this wonder?"

In particular I'm reffering to the Pyramids, Great Lighthouse and Chichen Itza that you built! The Chichen Itza is pretty awful, almost never worth building and it costs 500 , thats 5 settlers .

The Pyramids and Great Lighthouse on the other hand, are two of the games strongest wonders if they are leveraged.
If you will have many coastal cities, the Lighthouse is great, if you have many specialists (which for you I doubt) the Pyramids are great, but if not its not worth building these wonders.
All the hammers saved by not building wonders, can be used to build more settlers and workers, more military, libraries and other useful things!

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Cottages. The cottage improvement looks weak, but it isn't. There are other ways of getting commerce but the cottage is the easiest to master. The cottage should be the most common type of tile improvement you build.

GP Farm

These 2 are probably the reasons you are falling behind at that point in the game. The AI cottages are maturing to towns at this point and they are getting bureaucracy (which provides +50% and +50% to the capital). This is also the time when not having a GP farm catches up to you. The AI has been bulbing, starting Golden Ages, and settling their specialists as well as performing trade missions with Great Merchants. All these Great People are allowing the AI to start leaping forward during the late medieval era.

As stated above in the quote, lay down more cottages. Most of your cities should be devoted to cottages (IE make sure the city has enough food to work all the important tiles [remember each tile requires 2] and then lay down cottages on the rest of the landscape). Those cities should only build library/market/university/grocer/bank/observatory.

Also, make sure you set up a Great Person farm. It is best to choose a city site with the most food in it's fat cross. If you can get a city with 2+ food resources and farmable grassland, that's usually your best bet. If you can find a city site with multiple seafood resources AND farmable grassland, those are amazing. This city will only have farms on flat grassland, mines on hills, and food resources worked. You will run as many specialists as you possibly can while staying below the limit. Caste System usually aids me in this endeavor as I like to run as many scientists as possible to feed. Each specialist provides 3 great person points (GPP) and you can view the progress towards the next Great Person on the bottom right portion of the city screen.

Once you start popping Great People and are able to control what kind of Great People are born, you will see a great improvement especially at Warlord Level.

Also, if you are going to invest in Wonders, know which wonders you are going for and why. Don't build The Great Lighthouse if you only have 2 or 3 cities on the coastline. Don't bother building the Pyramids unless you plan on utilizing a government civic that comes much later (like representation or police state). If you have access to stone or are using an IND leader, you may want to go for the Pyramids to utilize the 3 extra per specialists. This turbo-charges your GP farm (especially if you're farming scientists) and allows you to run a powerful Specialist Heavy economy. Check out the War Academy for some great articles on Specialist economies.

 

[Kullervo]

Quoted: Matthew
"I'm not so sure if I agree with your tactics, early wonders can be very costly. The Pyramids alone can make 5 settlers. I also often decline founding religions because they can be very hard to maintain and if not achieved, can be very diplomatically negative. I usually let the other civs do the religion for me and capture their great shrines afterwards.

That being said, this is with my own style of game. I'm not sure if this is only me, or is everyone, but my point is, these strategies (listed by me and kullevro) may not be optimal for everyone."

You are absolutely right, but I believe the pyramids do help quite a bit. For one thing, you can chose any civics you want: I always choose representation, because then I can seriously postpone worrying about happiness and so forth. Plus, the Pyramids have one of the largest cultural outputs early in the game, and a wide city radius never harmed, has it? The Oracle is also fantastic, but you'll notice that almost all of the AI's on the later difficulties 'think' along the same lines: I've lost count of how many times I've been a turn away from building the Oracle and then that [unprintable obscenity] [insert name here] has built it. Sure, the conversion to gold is nice, but essentially, I just wasted several turns.

I stress though, that this is my tactic. I work only with specific leaders (Namely Bismark and Gandhi, 99% of the time) and what works for me is by no means guaranteed to work for you. Personally, I don't like capturing the holy cities... so much more convenient to found a religion yourself and then build missionaries, not Axemen. Even though they look a bit less impressive.

Enjoy Civ IV while it lasts!

 

[Kullervo]

Forgot to add this: Early religions do have a somewhat questionable return, but I always go for Hinduism, since it requires Polytheism, which is first of all, the required tech for the Parthenon, and second, leads to many other quite useful techs. Plus, I like the holy symbol.

Wow... smilies are quite fun (yes, I've never used them before).