Hermetic lore for FFH DI4 (not for use outside this game)

[Bootsiuv]

Dean, I find your "True Grigori" idea quite interesting, but do you have no further plans for them?

I've often wondered if the things I created were bad i.e. were out of my precept, and went against Verdians rules. But then I thought, otherwise, I would have to mess with the evil gods stuff much more, because the places and things they created would likely be what I didn't like, no?

So, taking that logic a step further, can't it be said that we ALL have the ability to change the world as we see fit (our changes being relatively subtle and within reason, of course), but we can only interact with Gerran i.e. Verdian with things concerning our precept?

Why can't we pull the strings of the whole world to shape things as we see fit, but stay within our precept when we're in-character and interacting with Gerran?

EDIT:^^^^Did I just ask the same thing twice in two different but eerily similiar manners?

Did I mention I enjoy the occasional cold brewski?

Moving on:


I'm only saying that because a civil war between the two grigori nations would be quite interesting, but if you'd rather no one messed with them, I wouldn't really mind. Just thought it might be cool....

EDIT: Not right away, mind you, but after years of trade and trust, we could create some interesting and complex choices for Gerran to make, similiar to my dwarven suggestions mentioned a few posts back.

If he makes the wrong choices, a civil war could ignite between the two grigoris, and we could help the pitiful a.i. handle the naval side of things.

Thoughts?

 

[Dean_the_Young]

I think it's a wonderful idea on your part. I'd be happy to support you, if you wish. No, I have no real plans for them as a God: in fact, any affects I, the player, would force would be opposed to I, the god. I have no plans for them, other than for them to exist as a people uncorruptable by Mammon. (They are not my secret servants for some quest for another.)

My thoughts on this were as such:
-We have a precedent for creating new things/civs to suit our purpose, terraforming including.
-We know they exist. We even have a ship wreckage on the coast.
-We aren't so much creating ex-nihilo here, but rather bringing forth something already said to exist. The Grigori should even have two Adventurers by now, one for the exploration and perhaps the other at home (a hero-archer?).

I do not view this as an intervention of my sphere (Mammon rising up the earth, seeding it with life, etc. etc.). I view it as an Out-Of-Character update to the map itself, taking the place of a major Mammon intervention. Since my godly-intervention this round is fulfilling a quest the player took last round and a bit of story-writing to justify what some others are doing, I don't think I'm over-acting. (I would be loathe to do this AND add a national wonder somewhere for god-purposes, for example.) This is not part of my scheme as a god, but as a interested OOC player.

If you wish for a civil war, I think that a great idea. My suggestion would be that the more religious the Gerranites are, we add a relation penalty, until the True Grigori don't recognize the Gerranites. So for now good relations, at least, but later it could go down fast until Civil War.

Or sooner than that, if you push the Gerranites to it. As I said, I think we shoulp paint the Grigori as truely beyond the coercion of the Gods: if we threaten them with destruction, they'll fight or die.

Speaking of which, I move that we make it official: once the Grigori are established, the player's civ be renamed the Gerranites for the international diplomacy angle.

 

[Vandal Warlord]

If he makes the wrong choices, a civil war could ignite between the two grigoris, and we could help the pitiful a.i. handle the naval side of things.

Thoughts?

Just putting this out there, but what about the idea of giving Verdian the option to abandon the Old Grigori and take command of the "True Grigori"?

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Why?

If he wanted to play a game as True Grigori, he would have played a game as True Grigori. It's rather obvious he wanted to get away from what the True Grigori are. That's why he's Gerranite, not Grigori.

 

[Bootsiuv]

Hmmm, while it would be interesting, I think it would defeat the purpose of what we're trying to do here, unless Gerran took the ability to worship gods to the true grigori....er, in which case, they wouldn't really be the true grigori now would they?

I also am not sure how this could be implemented in game, not to mention the fact Gerran would never abandon his well cared for (and very story driven) empire in my most humble of opinions.

@Dean:

Geographically, where were you thinking of putting the chain of islands? I could do the work over the course of a few hours, when we're both online, so we could make sure they are created as you originally intended.

We'll add in sections of the story concerning them later perhaps, although I'm uncertain how, or more appropriately, who would reveal the aforementioned "interesting and complex choices", as it certainly seems outside the sphere of life.

EDIT: Whereas Kilmorph taking the dwarven quests is a no-brainer, there isn't exactly a "god of agnostics", as that would be a logical oxymoron of oxymoronical proportions, but I digress.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Since I can't load the saves for some reason or another, I can't say, or check, unless you paste images here.

What I would suggest is to take the side of the continent with the ship wreck, and make a string of mountain one-tile islands, perhaps three or four of them, spaced so that there's a single sea-bed path from Grigori isle to the continent. (Alternatively, if you can make shallow seas in oceans, you won't need the islands, but the distance is a good measure.).

Since sea is one tile on all sides of land, it would be something like

I_SS_SS_SS_SS_CCCCCC

where I is Island, S is Sea, and C is the Continent

 

[zacman]

^
just my 2 cents, but mayby we should put the grigor right in the corner, that way we can say there only part of the grigor?

Also, id defenatly take part in the evil gods chat

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Could you clarify what you mean? Do you mean on the continent itself?

 

[zacman]

I mean make there lands touch the corner of the map instead of sticking them on an island

 

[Dayen]

You guys post too much.

At the moment, here's what I'm looking at: Gerran has discovered Cartography, completing the standing quest. He will be rewarded.

The Minstrel will depart for Ered to reveal some resource (or point out errors in how the terrain was mapped, etc, so that the area around Ered is improved somehow) that Finnegan's party missed while scouting the area. Pre-occupied as they and the dwarves were with Ered proper, this comes as no surprise. I already have my post outlined as far as this goes, just need to play ad libs, really.

No new quest at this time; Gerran's people have done more than enough recently to appease Tali and Tali is content to observe without input for a while. Obviously Verdian is free to have the Minstrel do more or less whatever he pleases as far as pushing an agenda.

If anyone else wants to make appeals directly to Tali prior to my posting, now'd be the time.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

I mean make there lands touch the corner of the map instead of sticking them on an island

A landbridge, I think, would be better for a later intervention. For now, I think they should be distant. There's a reason they themselveds didn't set out to colonize the continent, after all, and there's a reason why the Gerranites had to sail.

 

[Lgaard]

Hey, I have now less time to make appropriate posting :/

I would appreciate is someone take over the following issues (Kilmorph?):
- Ered is left to Gunter's command. Gunther is Arturus nephew. In game terms Verdian left 2 elephants to guard the city. It may be taken over by Khazad with a simpe narrative.
- Ered still holds the Dragon's Hoard. Dragon will like to reclaim it
- Gerran discovered the Rod of Winds in the mountains. As it was communicated before, all artefacts belongs to the dwarves

Suggersted actions:
- both Khazad and Luchuirp requests Ered. Khazad are privilaged, as the are practically in charge already
- both nations wants a Dragon Hoard. It consists of the treasures grabbed by the dragon from Ancient Dwarven Kingdom
- dragon wants to reclaim the Hoard as well. That's quite obvious
- both nations wants the Rod of Winds. (Tali, maybe your Minstrel has also something to add in here)

Please someone (Babale? Bootsiuv?) try to build a story around it. There are several ways how to act. Gerran has now three assets in his hand (Hoard, Holy City and Rod of Winds). He may also promise to continue the reclaiming of Gul'Dur - maybe it will be enough, if he wisely give these assets among both dwarven nations. If not: how about hostilities/war being started?

Can someone take care of these plots?

 

[zacman]

A landbridge, I think, would be better for a later intervention. For now, I think they should be distant. There's a reason they themselveds didn't set out to colonize the continent, after all, and there's a reason why the Gerranites had to sail.

no, i ment make there lands touch the dark space on the edge of the Bored, not the map he has revealed

 

[ryansee]

well guyz i downloaded save checking around the map making my self familliar with it. and then i was cardith lorda having an army rdy next to gerran a sod of 18 swordsman and all that verdian put is 4 units . the army has bronze and everyone in it has combat 2, bronze weapons. i think a god should intervene he put sah, finnegin and thesisas and a worphhier of kilmoprh next to them

 

[Vandal Warlord]

well guyz i downloaded save checking around the map making my self familliar with it. and then i was cardith lorda having an army rdy next to gerran a sod of 18 warriors and all that verdian put is 4 units . the army has bronze and everyone in it has combat 2, bronze weapons. i think a god should intervene he put sah, finnegin and thesisas and a worphhier of kilmoprh next to them

Actually, this could make for a great story. Rebellion in the South and Invasion in the North.

 

[ryansee]

i guess not they moved out after i plaied for a few turns. and THOMAS hes getting ur tech right now i think u shouldnt attack him!!!

 

[zacman]

Does anyone mind if i use the adventurer thats going to pop in 28 turns for my qeust/

 

[Vandal Warlord]

Does anyone mind if i use the adventurer thats going to pop in 28 turns for my qeust/

I doubt it would matter, but exactly what did you have in mind?

 

[Dean_the_Young]

no, i ment make there lands touch the dark space on the edge of the Bored, not the map he has revealed

My point remains: the Gerranites had to sail to a new land, not walk, and isolating the Grigori for now keeps them 'distant' and low key, not only to the Gerranites but to the rest of the continent. If you wish to link them to land at a later date, feel free to then.

 

[zacman]

My point remains: the Gerranites had to sail to a new land, not walk, and isolating the Grigori for now keeps them 'distant' and low key, not only to the Gerranites but to the rest of the continent. If you wish to link them to land at a later date, feel free to then.

I dont think you understand, I dont want a land bridge! i ment make there island touch the edge of the ENTIRE MAP. not the edge of the continate. That way there still isolated, but we can say there only part of the entire grigor empire, because in the scenarios they have 7-10 citys

@ vandal warlord: I want him to be an illian refugy who left when he was a child, who will (hoppfully) flee northward when he hears his great leader is alive and in need. This will start a long qeust chain