Hermetic Lore for FFH DI5

Ravus_Sol · Jun 24, 2012

Suprised you hadn't heard of the Chekhov gun thing, but yeah, it really suits what you are doing in my eyes. As to how I'd implement the Nature god, I'm thinking I'll wait until the next update and then start focusing on reacting with the world. No focus on the Kuriotates, in fact I'll probably ignore them for a bit and react to some of the other nations.

It would be nice to have a nation like the elves turn to nature but having them battle with their desire a bit would be just as good. I'll leave it to chance on where the Holy city is founded.

Lplate said:
Welcome zbelg. It will be nice to have Lugus shining his little lights and revealing just how much darkness is out there.

Attached are the files that should allow you to get involved in the story.

Hmmm having some difficulty with this, used the saves provided for the older version of the game, but every time I try to load the save file it says "Civ 4 has stopped working" and dies on me. Did anyone else have any troubles or is it just my computer?

EDIT: Actually it doesn't seem to want to work at all for me. No games are working so far no matter what setting I pick

Lplate · Jun 25, 2012

Ravus_Sol said:
Hmmm having some difficulty with this, used the saves provided for the older version of the game, but every time I try to load the save file it says "Civ 4 has stopped working" and dies on me. Did anyone else have any troubles or is it just my computer?

EDIT: Actually it doesn't seem to want to work at all for me. No games are working so far no matter what setting I pick

Yes, others had difficulty (post 69 and 70) - clean install of FFH was recommended before installing MagistersMod.

Elder Methyl · Jun 26, 2012

The Sirona Quest is now complete. Can someone give Filius the Demon Slaying Promotion, and, as he stayed for 10 turns, a free Settler for the Kuriotates?

Calavente · Jun 26, 2012

Im medling, but maybe Elder methyl you could somehow not give the settler...
with camulos' settler and the former one from cerwiden that would make 3 settlers... in 100 turns... which is a good pace and it might be too much
for him to manage 4 cities so soon. (well, some are settlements so it balances a bit... but still)

further, to keep in line with the text you announced for the "swanway" warrior : "learning each month a skill against each evil god" ...
I would propose that you give more than "only" demon slaying... maybe you can give also "undead slaying" and "Orc slaying" ? orcs and undead being also linked to evil gods/angels.. (further orc-slaying would help explain the bit of him killing 3 orcs axemen when going out alone ...)

for the settler : despite what I said before, maybe its ok..

otherwise, to illustrate the "swanmay girl" coming with the warrior : you could give him an adept with ljos or svart race (so it is female) (adept is not too much as He already have KoE) and some lvl 1 spells in one or two of life/creation/spirit/other good spheres... maybe further give her a bonus tierII spell in life/creation/spirit...

To balance it, make her already have lvl 4 (so it increases the xp she would need to get future promotions... (to compensate for the free promotions) + it will reduce the passive xp gain ; but with lvl 4 she would be able to upgrade to mage when sorcery is researched even withno/few xp gain.)

however, that would count as an "hero/chosen" unit for you.... hard choice..

my 0.2

Lplate · Jun 26, 2012

Calavente said:
Im medling, but maybe Elder methyl you could somehow not give the settler...
with camulos' settler and the former one from cerwiden that would make 3 settlers... in 100 turns... which is a good pace and it might be too much
for him to manage 4 cities so soon. (well, some are settlements so it balances a bit... but still)

Sirona definitely needs to give the settler. The axis of evil would get too strong if Camulos and Ceridwen's settlers get a significant head start on all of the good settlers.
It also forces Verdian to choose between cities and settlements for the settlers if he's concerned about excessive expansion.

As Gods we should probably look at the other civs to see if they need any boosts so as not to lag too far behind the Kuriotates population boom.

Elder Methyl,

I'll do the edits tonight, if no one beats me to it.

Derf · Jun 26, 2012

I'm not ignoring the other civs - just the plans for them will take a little longer before they need action. For now I'm just keeping watch on the diplomatic relations between them.

As for the Camulos settlement, regardless of whether he keeps or exiles Lothbrok, it'll have it's own share of issues. If I can arrange for it, it'll have a higher maintenance and a bit of unhappiness as a means to represent those issues in a passive way, otherwise I'll come up with something new for him to tackle every time our turn comes.

Ravus_Sol · Jun 26, 2012

I support the Sirona Settler, like has been mentioned, it's the only "good" gifted settler so far. And it will stay a settlement until Verdian decides to upgrade it.

Just "Got it" in the main thread.

Main things I'm going to play with;

Introducing Wild Centaur herds
Fleshing out the background of the demi-humans. The Chimera's created during the age of magic by the Lords of Patria. Such as the Lamia, Centaurs, Ratmen etc.
Responding to the burnt forest via Camulos' Hellhounds
Introducing the perspective of Cernunnos
Fleshing out foreign affairs

zbelg · Jun 26, 2012

It will be a second before I can sit and invest time into this, but a couple of quick things-

Most of the other civs on the map have 3-4 cities. Kuritotates are near the bottom of the scoreboard. I don't think anything is wrong with the surplus of settlers right now, especially considering that they'll just be settlements at first. Did Veridian address if he's okay with conquering cities? Ultigar is a really nice city spot, hopefully he can grab it.

And there was an earlier discussion about if we should be explicit in our quest rewards... Personally, I'm leaning to state a general reward in the write up, but I'd like to be vague about the details. That way, it can be variable, depending on how Veridian performs the tasks. For example, there's the possibility that the Calabim might go and kill our angel (that'd be an interesting event) and if/when Veridian attacks the Calabim I was going to vary rewarding additional units by how he did in his conquest (if he was too brutal) and the state of the map at the time. I also like the idea of him not so much choosing between rewards, but choosing which god he trusts and wants to earn the favor of. Considering that I'm doing the joint quest thing, I want to make sure you're alright with that, Elder Methyl.

Again, I'm going to give a day or two to think about everything when I'm less busy, but would gifting Construction as a reward for Way of the Wise be too strong or inappropriate? This is a pretty pivotal moment, so I don't think that a single angel unit would quite be enough of a reward. Also, I'm concerned that with the technologies we've been pushing on Veridian, he'll be falling behind in military technologies. This way, with construction, when he gets Trade he'll have Chargers available to him.

Ravus_Sol · Jun 26, 2012

Spoiler Divine Eyes :

This is a copy of the edits I did from the other thread.

Firstly I plan to write up a meeting for the scouts up north that goes in short like this;

Scout, Named Martouth, spots something strange about the forest they are in. Centaur, named Roarsan, appears and reveals that this is an ancient forest and the Tree they are sheltering under is a slumbering Treant.

Roarsan is delighted to find intelligent demi-humans. The chimeras created by the Evil wizards of the Patrian Empire in a lost age. His Herd has been living in the grasslands since the end of the Ice. Yet now the Sidar, silent ghosts, are encroaching ever more towards them.

He reveals that a Palus from that lost age is north and is willing to guide them there in return for tales of their multi-being nation. But warns that the Sidar are treating the Centaurs like Barbarians.

This Quest or Interaction can go a number of ways. It provides backstory about the racism towards demi-humans, and hints at the stiring troubles in the Sidar without stating anything directly. (As the Arawn god is absent.) The Centaur has weak and Hidden Nationality. I will state in the story update that Verdian can vouch publically for the Centaur and thus remove the Barbarian Nationality, or he can leave it. Either will have consequences.

The Palus and Tormented souls are mere props that can be picked up by others, I don't think they contradict with any current quests or developing mega-plots. Ashton has also been absorbed by the Sidar if that is useful.

Secondly I plan to write a short introspection for Cernunnos, about him being the weakest god and Hyborem being his dark twin, and his annoyance with gods getting more blunt in their disregard for the compact. It was the bending of these rules that caused the death of his previous Lord, Sucellus the first God of Nature, now the God of Life.

I set the forest that Camulos intervened in on fire, as something Cernunnos can get annoyed by. And nudged a Lion Pride to settle down on a basic mana node inside Kuriotate lands as a response to Ceridwen breaking into the dreams of man. I would want to get input from these gods before doing anything, especially as Cernunnos is the weakest god and would be treated like an annoyance.

My idea is to have Cernunnos track down Ceridwen in the outer planes (As I believe she has no vault) and make demands only to get laughed at. Then to track down Camulos, only for Camulos to be hosting Agares and Hyborem, my dark twin, and get thrown out.

Thoughts?

Ravus_Sol · Jun 26, 2012

zbelg said:
... Did Veridian address if he's okay with conquering cities? Ultigar is a really nice city spot, hopefully he can grab it...

Not that I know of, but I'm sure Camulos would wish for his settlement to be used as a forward attack base against Ultigar so it may happen.

And there was an earlier discussion about if we should be explicit in our quest rewards...

I must have missed that, I hope no one minds if I basically don't do any quests. I'm just going to be nudging the world in general. Cernunnos won't notice or interact with the Dragon Cult until they do something that catches his eye.

Again... would gifting Construction as a reward for Way of the Wise be too strong or inappropriate?

As long as the reward flows from your precept and is an appropriate reward vs risk then I'm sure it doesn't matter.
Example: I think Quintien the builder was introduced by Esus. If he isn't a secret Esus worshipper he could become a follower of yours, flowing into the Construction revalation.

Lplate said:
Yes, others had difficulty (post 69 and 70) - clean install of FFH was recommended before installing MagistersMod.

Just wanted to say thank you, the clean install worked

Derf · Jun 26, 2012

I suppose I should have thought about naming my settler really, but I didn't really have long to act on my intervention; I had the story written up in advance I just had to edit it a bit to take into account Dallarin's choice not to request aid from Camulos. Pretty much everything since is being down (awkwardly) on my phone.

As for Agares and Hyborem... anyone's guess what they're up to and who's hosting them. So far, I'm (mostly) independent. There's a few mentions of Lothbrok by other divinities in their posts, but that's about all. As yet, no one's approached me, so I'm just indulging Camulos' personality - building things up only to watch them fall spectacularly, usually with war, chaos and strife.
It's kind of fun, actually.

Extra quick edit, as Ravus ninja'd a post in while I was making this one - the settlement may indeed be an ideal forward base. Personally, as long as it tends toward the more warlike things, I'll be content.

Ravus_Sol · Jun 26, 2012

Finished the written story update. As you can see it adds in some demi-human politics, hints at Sidar troubles that may get picked up by Arawn, reveals the troubles with magic and hints at centaur/nature affinity. I couldn't find any lore on Centaurs in the Civopedia or wiki page so i'll have to go trolling around for some instead.

Going to re-read this thread in more detail as well to double check I know what's going on.

Derf said:
I suppose I should have thought about naming my settler really, but I didn't really have long to act on my intervention; I had the story written up in advance I just had to edit it a bit to take into account Dallarin's choice not to request aid from Camulos. Pretty much everything since is being down (awkwardly) on my phone.

As for Agares and Hyborem... anyone's guess what they're up to and who's hosting them. So far, I'm (mostly) independent. There's a few mentions of Lothbrok by other divinities in their posts, but that's about all. As yet, no one's approached me, so I'm just indulging Camulos' personality - building things up only to watch them fall spectacularly, usually with war, chaos and strife.
It's kind of fun, actually.

Extra quick edit, as Ravus ninja'd a post in while I was making this one - the settlement may indeed be an ideal forward base. Personally, as long as it tends toward the more warlike things, I'll be content.

No one is playing Agares yet, but he's not a character with much leeway in personality anyway. He's the god of Entropy and despair and leads nearly all of the Evil gods. Who work together so that their vaults act as a hell machine cycling human souls.

You can basically consider yourself working a little with Agares if you are an evil god. But yes Camulos is very fun

He's just a little kid with a stick poking things to see if they fall over. I played him in Verdians last FFH DI game. Would have picked him again if he wasn't taken :lol:

How about I write up a basic story about Cernunnos vs Camulos/Agares/Hyborem and post it here so you can change anything you want?

zbelg · Jun 26, 2012

Ravus_Sol said:
I must have missed that, I hope no one minds if I basically don't do any quests. I'm just going to be nudging the world in general. Cernunnos won't notice or interact with the Dragon Cult until they do something that catches his eye.

Nothing wrong with that, it would be overwhelming if all of the gods were giving demands, and you are a neutral god, after all.

Done with my save. Here it is.

Changes-

-Revealed Golden Leane and the Mirror of Heaven
As mentioned as part of my reward.

-Removed the angel from Odio's Prison
Reasoning: The Malakim have settled a city adjacent to Odio's Prison. The Malakim are my chosen people, so in honor of the recent pact between Sucellus and Lugus, the angel guarding Odio's Prison has been relinquished of service. Decius has already chosen to be a "Good" leader, so the holy site can be trusted in his hands.

-Named the large body of water in middle of the map the "Ulyssean Sea"
This is simply for thematic reasons. I have nothing to do with this site, I just wanted a name to refer to it as. It doesn't seem to have significance to anyone else so I didn't think that this would be a problem. "Ulyssean" because I want the pilgrims to have an "odyssey" back home. We've already got Morpheus, why not?

-Gave the Sentry promotion to the military units in the Kuriotate lands (three warriors, two adepts)
I had forgotten about the "no fiddling with named units" clause, but I feel this is acceptable because none of these units were granted by another god and Sentry isn't too drastic of a promotion, just a nice bonus. The scouts and the centaur to the north were not granted the promotion, because the centaur was created by another god, and it wouldn't make a lot of sense. Although Veridian was likely hoping that the scouts would gain the promotion, the idea is that the sun is shining on Kuriotate lands. The scouts are deep in the land of the Sidar, and even if they rushed back, it would take them 7-8 months to reach Kuriotate lands. They have missed this period. The map revelation is enough of a reward really, anyway.

Will do my writeup soon. Please let me know what you guys think about Construction as a possible future reward. I think I can think of a justifiable explanation, but I want to make sure I'm not overstepping my boundaries.

Lplate · Jun 26, 2012

Summary of the Civs

Spoiler :

Religious Info

Spoiler :

The interesting thing is that the Svartalfar founded RoK.
Of course, the planned war with the Calabim will take an interesting twist if they found FoL and Cernunnos gets involved when the war starts.

axecack · Jun 26, 2012

.....

Ravus_Sol · Jun 27, 2012

axecack said:
Hi guys!
I like your ideas so far on the plots and whatnot. Here's my idea/intention

After a few quests I want to hand Acheron over to the Kuriorates to exterminate the bannor. I'll have some quests that will involve finding mystical shrines and then give them the ultimatum: go to war with the Bannor and receive positive diplomacy point with the Clan of Embers (and Acheron) or not go to war with the Bannor and instead go to war with the Clan of Embers. I want to really make it the Kuriorate's choice whether or not to follow Bhall down a dark path and take the easy way out to obtain the dragon holy city or perhaps defy Bhall and take the holy city by force. Either way I think it'll make a good story! What do you all think?

On a side not: Can I please have dominion/creative freedom over Acheron seeing as how he's Bhall's dragon?

Personally I like interventions/quests that have more flexibility, but a evil god of fire might, character wise, issue such a bold ultimatum. You will probably want to converse with Junil the patron god of the Bannor to figure things out between you, and discuss with Camulos how it might link into his "Clan = barbarian states in civil war" theme.

I do have one important question, what happens if no one in the Dragon Cult completes the initial quests to find mystical shrines? Verdian has the option to ignore Bhall completly, especially when she is so bold in her demands :crazyeye:

I should also say that the town you added to boost the Dragon Cult coffers needs to be explained storywise. If you don't give a mortal story reason for why it's there then it's basically been zapped there by the gods.

-

This has however helped me come to a decision about where I want to take Cernunnos. The Lore describes the age of Rebirth as so;

"It is now the beginning of the Age of Rebirth. The Compact of Dagda has broken into two factions one dedicated to Dagda and another dedicated to one of his lieutenants, an angel known as Cassiel who argues that angels should follow the example of the One and turn their backs on Creation and allow it to succeed or falter on its own, not as part of their schemes."

As a former Archangel and compatriot of Cassiel, combined with all the blatant bending of the rules of the compact instead of upholding its spirit, I figure Cernunnos will either start to be sympathetic to Cassiel's stance, or to Bassium's stance of the Compact going too far, not working, and war should commence openly again. How this plays out I'm not sure. It will depend on what happens exactly. Whether Cernunnos starts trying to stop and fight against all gods who intervene directly, does he do this openly or try to nudge like he should? His growing disrespect for good or evil. Whether he tries to reforge a more extreme or less extreme compact, whether he joins Bassium in his endless war, starts to openly break the compact as much as he can. Or whether he ends up falling to earth as a mortal.

So far the gods that have openly bent the Compact are;
Bhall - Possessed a woman in the mortal plane (potentially broken the compact, especially in reguards to zapped city, unknown at current time.)
Cerdiwen - Sent a bold message to the mortal plane via Dreams
Lugus - Sending visions to the mortal planes
Sirona - Sent Angels to the mortal planes to intervene in her stead

Lplate said:
The interesting thing is that the Svartalfar founded RoK.
Of course, the planned war with the Calabim will take an interesting twist if they found FoL and Cernunnos gets involved when the war starts.

It is interesting that the Svartalfar founded RoK. I'd ask if anyone wanted to alter that, but with Kilmorph being silent I'm not sure how much it matters. Until Verdian finds the Winter Elves it's open to change I guess.

Personally I'm okay with it, but that's because I like the idea of the Lurchirup NOT founding the Runes religion. I've always liked the idea of them turning to the White Hand when they realise their hero unit Barnaxus was created by the God of Winter.

On the matter of the FoL being founded by the Calabim... I'm actually okay with it. Cernunnos doesn't have time to directly favour one group over another. But if they start to worship a balance of nature and gradual change on their own, then the Nature God might feel obliged to give them a helping hand. After all, Vampires are the Apex Hunters.

Of course it doesn't matter much until Verdian explores some more so that he meets these distant nations.

Elder Methyl · Jun 27, 2012

zbelg said:
It will be a second before I can sit and invest time into this, but a couple of quick things-

Most of the other civs on the map have 3-4 cities. Kuritotates are near the bottom of the scoreboard. I don't think anything is wrong with the surplus of settlers right now, especially considering that they'll just be settlements at first. Did Veridian address if he's okay with conquering cities? Ultigar is a really nice city spot, hopefully he can grab it.

And there was an earlier discussion about if we should be explicit in our quest rewards... Personally, I'm leaning to state a general reward in the write up, but I'd like to be vague about the details. That way, it can be variable, depending on how Veridian performs the tasks. For example, there's the possibility that the Calabim might go and kill our angel (that'd be an interesting event) and if/when Veridian attacks the Calabim I was going to vary rewarding additional units by how he did in his conquest (if he was too brutal) and the state of the map at the time. I also like the idea of him not so much choosing between rewards, but choosing which god he trusts and wants to earn the favor of. Considering that I'm doing the joint quest thing, I want to make sure you're alright with that, Elder Methyl.

Again, I'm going to give a day or two to think about everything when I'm less busy, but would gifting Construction as a reward for Way of the Wise be too strong or inappropriate? This is a pretty pivotal moment, so I don't think that a single angel unit would quite be enough of a reward. Also, I'm concerned that with the technologies we've been pushing on Veridian, he'll be falling behind in military technologies. This way, with construction, when he gets Trade he'll have Chargers available to him.

Ah! Didn't see this post, sorry. And yes, it's all right.

Lplate · Jun 27, 2012

@axecack
Are you planning on having the barbarians make peace with Verdian if he goes to war with the Bannor to reflect making peace with Acheron or are you planning on transferring ownership of Acheron to Verdian?
If it's the first, we might want to think how it will impact on barbarian units being placed by the other Gods, as these would be at peace with Verdian also.
If it's the second, just remember rule 7 and make the quests suitably difficult and don't give him too early.

Edit: I just thought of the third option (which may have been what you intended from the start). Instead of giving a Bhall Settler, Bhall could give Dirage as a Settlement (keeping current population and buildings) and a Held Acheron. The Held promo should counteract the value of giving such a powerful unit. In the latter part of the game, there may be a quest to remove the Held promo. Dirage and a Held dragon is still a very valuable reward, so if doing this, make sure that you get Verdian to work hard for it.

@zbelg
I've no issue with giving Construction as a reward for the Way of the Wise quest, just so long as you can make it make sense in the story.
Quintien is available to use if you want him. My only plan for him at the moment is some extra-marital affairs.
The criminals have set sail, so if you're thinking about giving any visions relating to forgiveness and second chances, now is the time to do it.

axecack · Jun 27, 2012

.....

Ravus_Sol · Jun 27, 2012

axecack said:
About the cottage... that was only a method to make up for all of the new units that were given. If you feel it violates the compact then perhaps we should remove it. I'd do it myself but I already played my turn so if anyone who hasn't gone yet wishes to remove it then that's totally fine.
Speaking of barbarians...

Don't worry too much about it. It does violate the compact but it looks like a Compact war is going to be inevitable either way. That's what Armageddon is all about. Bending the rules until they snap.

It would be useful to keep it and there are many ways to explain it. For story ideas on how to fit the cottage in, you could have it as some Orcs from the Clan have heard about the Dragon Clans open-ness to hosting none humans. They have an abundance of demi-humans and a tribe of Orcs could have fled the Clan believing they would find sanctuary with the Kuriotates.

You could then use those Orcs to feed Verdian the plot about the brewing Clan Civil war and so on. I'm encouraging that particular idea as I am playing around with the history of Demi-Humans and their interaction with other nations myself.

THAT is an awesome idea! Civil war amongst the orcs sounds like an awesome quest line. I'm not sure how to pull this off though... is there a way to add new leaders to the game (like declaring colonies' independence only for AI?) As Bhall I would love to see the Kuriorates try to solve the conflict between the two factions by either wiping one out, creating some kind of alliance, or perhaps wiping both out! No doubt Camulos would find the 3rd option to be the best

I believe you can add more Civs in by using the colony ability (if its still there) or by saving the file as a worldbuilder and then editing it manually. A word of warning, attempting to do this in the last game was VERY tricky. You need to check diligently for CTD issues.

An easier, but less fun way to do it would be to have Barbarian cities nestled within the Clan nation and change them back and forth from clan to barb, while also changing the Clans status with barbarians from peace to war and back again.

Hermetic Lore for FFH DI5

God-Emperor of Mankind

Esus (Allegedly)

Warlord

Richard's voice

Esus (Allegedly)

Modular Mushroom

God-Emperor of Mankind

Warlord

God-Emperor of Mankind

God-Emperor of Mankind

Modular Mushroom

God-Emperor of Mankind

Warlord

Attachments

Esus (Allegedly)

Chieftain

God-Emperor of Mankind

Warlord

Esus (Allegedly)

Chieftain

God-Emperor of Mankind

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