Hermetic Lore for FFH DI5

[apenpaap]

Oh, and I quickly wrote up the story I'm going to post tomorrow, probably edited a bit:

A few nights after disembarking, Dallarin is looking at the stars at night when he realises something is really bizarre: the constellation Black Candle actually seems to burn this night... Surely it's impossible, but there actually is a purple flame atop the collection of stars roughly shaped like a candle. Just as Dallarin wonders if perhaps the stars behave differently on these shores, he hears a voice in his head.

"Mankind has fallen deep..." a feminine voice speaks. "In the Age of Magic, mortals performed incredible feats of magic... Made entire forests grow at their whim... Cured the worst diseases... Travelled across Erebus in a single moment... Destroyed their enemies with a thought... But all that was lost by the Age of Ice... Our greatest creation reduced to meager bands of savages..."

As the voice speaks these words, stars seem to light up and fade out, forming figures that seem to illustrate its words. "But in the darkest hour, when all gods had abandoned mankind to Mulcarn... It was I, Ceridwen, who sent My pupil Kylorin, the first and greatest I ever taught magic to, and with My help he slew Mulcarn... Yet while mankind's numbers have grown since, your knowledge hasn't.

Once again, I shall guide mankind towards greatness... The Lamia who travels with you ahs already been touched by My favour, yet this is but a pale shadow of the power magic truly holds. I will multiply the knowledge of those curious enough to seek it... I believe you to be one of those. You and your people must learn about ancient myths, try to reclaim the knowledge of the Age of Magic. For if you do, I shall reward you greatly by giving you the first secrets of the Ether... And you shall have pleased the wisest and most powerful of the gods..." At the voice's final words, a great dragon of stars forms in the sky before the skies return to normal.

OOC:

Spoiler :

Research Ancient Chants and Mysticism before the next segment, and you'll be rewarded with Knowledge of the Ether and an Adept.

 

[Lplate]

Hi,

With Verdian about to take the save and my CIV computer in a different country could Empedocles or whichever God is going to adjust the save please make sure that the positions of Acheron's bones and Bradeline's Well would fit with the Mega Plot? I'd rather not have to reposition them after exploration has started. Acheron flying to a different location would be an easy explanation to reposition him when selecting which CIV the hero is from.

Turn 50 Mammon's Hero Introduction

Spoiler :

He had robbed graveyards.
He had looted temples.
He had pried the rings from the fingers of dead barbarians.

Whoever he fought, he defeated. Whenever he attempted, he succeeded.
Whatever he feared, he challenged.

His name was legend.
His story was known.
His fortune was made.

He wasn't satisfied.
He didn't rest.
He wanted more. . .

---

The statue of Esus stepped down off it's plinth. It walked down the aisle between the rows of the stunned congregation. It took on the form of a dream merchant as it stepped out into the bustle of the City.
Sniffing the air, he turned and made his way unerringly through the crowded streets to where Mammon was. Stepping into the cavernous, vaulted building where Mammon tracked his stocks of souls was like stepping into a Dragon's Den.
"Mammon, I have an investment proposal for you . . ."

@thegoatgod_pan
You haven't commented on the Mega Plot. Do you agree to Mammon's involvement?

 

[Bad Player]

Ceridwen, angel of Stars, Dimensions, Magic, Secrets and more

Spoiler :

I've been thinking about my overall plot. As Ceridwen, my overall goal will simply be to cause Armageddon. Since there are no Sheaim, I will not be trying to accomplish this through a single people: instead I envision the followers of the Ashen Veil in general as my 'people' (particularly if Agares and Bhall don't end up being claimed). Any other evil gods who would like to help me try to cause armaggeddon are welcome to help, of course. > Think about it, a gigantic incredibly destructive war sweeping the entire planet, sin running utterly rampant... Maybe I could later on also create Planar Gates in the cities of civs that please me, meaning your critters would get to walk Erebus free through them.

In the beginning my plans are mainly to get AV founded as soon as possible, and preferably even to get Dallarin to found it. I will be doing this by presenting myself more kindly at first, offering knowledge of magic. Of course, Knowledge of the Ether is required to research Corruption of Spirit in the first place.

Essentially, my idea for the first quest I'm going to give him, is that I task him to research Ancient Chants and Mysticism before the next segment, and if he does I'll gift him Knowledge of the Ether and an Adept. If either the quest or the reward seems too big, please tell me. I could instead give him an Elder Council or Library or settled Great Sage if gifting a whole tech is too big, while still keeping in the idea of Ceridwen granting knowledge. If there are no objections to this first quest, I'll post it tomorrow mornign/early afternoon, probably without an edit of the save yet (just a simple research quest).

Oh, and it is interesting to note that Abashi is actually my pet. I don't have any plans yet, but in the context of the current story it'll probably make for something interesting. I'm open to suggestions.

I feel like we shouldn't be pampering Verdian in particular too much. Apart from gifting of a whole tech being excessive IMHO (maybe it's not), I'd prefer it if you gave the same reward to any civ that researched ancient chants and mysticism before the next phase (pretty sure most do from my testing of it).

 

[Bad Player]

Hi,

With Verdian about to take the save and my CIV computer in a different country could Empedocles or whichever God is going to adjust the save please make sure that the positions of Acheron's bones and Bradeline's Well would fit with the Mega Plot? I'd rather not have to reposition them after exploration has started. Acheron flying to a different location would be an easy explanation to reposition him when selecting which CIV the hero is from.

Turn 50 Mammon's Hero Introduction

Spoiler :

He had robbed graveyards.
He had looted temples.
He had pried the rings from the fingers of dead barbarians.

Whoever he fought, he defeated. Whenever he attempted, he succeeded.
Whatever he feared, he challenged.

His name was legend.
His story was known.
His fortune was made.

He wasn't satisfied.
He didn't rest.
He wanted more. . .

---

The statue of Esus stepped down off it's plinth. It walked down the aisle between the rows of the stunned congregation. It took on the form of a dream merchant as it stepped out into the bustle of the City.
Sniffing the air, he turned and made his way unerringly through the crowded streets to where Mammon was. Stepping into the cavernous, vaulted building where Mammon tracked his stocks of souls was like stepping into a Dragon's Den.
"Mammon, I have an investment proposal for you . . ."

@thegoatgod_pan
You haven't commented on the Mega Plot. Do you agree to Mammon's involvement?

Where do you want them? I haven't moved them (I only moved guardians of the pristin pass to save the Sidar).

 

[Bad Player]

EDIT: Save moved to The Dragon Cult thread.

Additional things I did:
-Removed scrubs around Malakim spawn so they now settle farther west, giving more space to the Salvartfar(spelling?)
- Added a fort adjacent to my worker (for flavour)
- Added a bear between the Amurites and Bannor
- Added wolves west of Sidar (to kill the worker if Kuriotates don't protect it
- Moved wine resource slightly away from Amurites so they settle one tile more north

 

[Lplate]

Where do you want them? I haven't moved them (I only moved guardians of the pristin pass to save the Sidar).

I was thinking maybe near the Amurites or the Bannor for BW, as a war there is more likely to involve the Kurios, coming to aid the Bannor or taking advantage of the situation (like the devious, cunning backstabbers we know they are deep down). Given all the work you put in looking at that part of the map, I expect it's not practical - the plan involves a city changing hands at the start of the war.

A second option would be just West of the Lanun. The Lanun are already in contact with the Kurios and if Esus starts improving relations there instead of sabotaging them, Dallarin may say he'll come to their aid when there's a war.

For Acheron's bones, I was thinking west of the Clan. I wasn't thinking of a Clan hero so the hero would come from a different CIV in striking distance of there. I can't check the map to see who's there at the moment. I can't see Esus using a Svartalfar hero as he's in line for a lot of their souls himself.


- Further thoughts, not requiring action on the map now -
Apart from triggering a war between the hero's CIV and the former owner of BW, the passage of the hero and his entourage across Erebus could trigger other wars between his CIV and those whose lands he passes through. If we put a couple of Open Border agreements in place in advance, it could encourage another CIV to ally with the hero's CIV in the war. Derf ( Camulos), how many civs do you think we should initially drag into the war?

 

[apenpaap]

I feel like we shouldn't be pampering Verdian in particular too much. Apart from gifting of a whole tech being excessive IMHO (maybe it's not), I'd prefer it if you gave the same reward to any civ that researched ancient chants and mysticism before the next phase (pretty sure most do from my testing of it).

That is a good point, I should indeed give anyone the reward if they get to Mysticism. It makes more sense for Ceridwen not to put all her eggs in one basket anyway, particularly if it is a goody two-shoes Kuriotates basket when there are Calabim and Clan in the game. Do others agree that gifting a whole tech would be excessive under these conditions too? If so, I can gift the civs that get to Mysticism an Elder Council, Library, or settled Great Scientist instead.

Also, when I make my post (in two hours at the max, because I'll need to go somewhere after that) I'll post your save; I'm not going to do editing yet myself anyway.

EDIT: And I'll try to do the final map edits requested as good as possible.

 

[Lplate]

Do others agree that gifting a whole tech would be excessive under these conditions too? If so, I can gift the civs that get to Mysticism an Elder Council, Library, or settled Great Scientist instead.

Just giving Knowledge of Ether out probably is a bit excessive at this stage. Your other ideas fit with driving the research. They'll also benefit the civs that meet the requirements of your quest but aren't typically focused on the arcane.

You could make the settled great scientist a self taught magic-user. His demonstrations of the possibilities with magic in the story, might encourage Dallarin to pursue Knowledge of Ether. It would also give you another character to act as a voice for Ceridwen.

 

[apenpaap]

^Alright, I'll go for the settled great scientist, then. It's better than one of the buildings anyway, because there is no chance of the building already existing, which would require a plan B. Also, come to think of it, it doesn't quite seem in the nature of a godess of secrets to just hand out knowledge; guiding someone towards it is more likely.

And I've placed Bradley's Well north of the Amurite start and Acheron's bones west of the Clan start... But I can't find the original Acheron's bones to remove anywhere. Can anyone give me a pointer on where it is (already found the original well)?

 

[Bad Player]

PLEASE DON'T ALTER ANY TILES AROUND THE BANNOR OR AMURITE AREA OR THEY WILL CHANGE THEIR CAPITAL CITY LOCATIONS!

I.e. If you add/remove bonus resources anywhere in their vicinity they will decide to move their capital and unbalance what I have done (ie spawn to close or not give enough expansion room for both of them - the Bannor expand south and the Amurites expand north ATM).

 

[Bad Player]

I was thinking maybe near the Amurites or the Bannor for BW, as a war there is more likely to involve the Kurios, coming to aid the Bannor or taking advantage of the situation (like the devious, cunning backstabbers we know they are deep down). Given all the work you put in looking at that part of the map, I expect it's not practical - the plan involves a city changing hands at the start of the war.

A second option would be just West of the Lanun. The Lanun are already in contact with the Kurios and if Esus starts improving relations there instead of sabotaging them, Dallarin may say he'll come to their aid when there's a war.

For Acheron's bones, I was thinking west of the Clan. I wasn't thinking of a Clan hero so the hero would come from a different CIV in striking distance of there. I can't check the map to see who's there at the moment. I can't see Esus using a Svartalfar hero as he's in line for a lot of their souls himself.


- Further thoughts, not requiring action on the map now -
Apart from triggering a war between the hero's CIV and the former owner of BW, the passage of the hero and his entourage across Erebus could trigger other wars between his CIV and those whose lands he passes through. If we put a couple of Open Border agreements in place in advance, it could encourage another CIV to ally with the hero's CIV in the war. Derf ( Camulos), how many civs do you think we should initially drag into the war?

Tell me what you think of where I put the Pristin Pass - it is NE of the Clan of Embers and NW of the Amurites, right in a natural pass across the mountain range.


The first war I saw was between Bannor and Clan of Embers, rather than the Amurites.

 

[apenpaap]

PLEASE DON'T ALTER ANY TILES AROUND THE BANNOR OR AMURITE AREA OR THEY WILL CHANGE THEIR CAPITAL CITY LOCATIONS!

I.e. If you add/remove bonus resources anywhere in their vicinity they will decide to move their capital and unbalance what I have done (ie spawn to close or not give enough expansion room for both of them - the Bannor expand south and the Amurites expand north ATM).

They don't, actually. The Well is sufficiently far north (5 tiles from their starting location) that they don't see it and they stay more or less in place (they move 1 tile to the coast).

Also, I still haven't found the original Acheron's bones.

 

[Lplate]

Tell me what you think of where I put the Pristin Pass - it is NE of the Clan of Embers and NW of the Amurites, right in a natural pass across the mountain range.


The first war I saw was between Bannor and Clan of Embers, rather than the Amurites.

I think it's a good spot. It sounds like the location I would have picked for it.

A Bannor / Clan war obviously makes sense from the lore. Someone may have to arrange for the Amurites to open borders to at least one of the armies.

 

[apenpaap]

Alright, finally found Acheron's bones and deleted them. However, testing reveals the Clan now moves west, to the flood plained desert, instead of east in the first turn. If that is a problem to anyone, I can put the bones elsewhere.

 

[Bad Player]

The Bannor has really bad AI programming - they are far too cautious about building a second city and in some games they just don't build a second city even while everyone else is building 2nd and 3rd (and more for CoE) cities! So stupid!!!

Also the Bannor have lots of warriors they build but they don't use them to fight off barbarians invading their land!

 

[Bad Player]

I think it's a good spot. It sounds like the location I would have picked for it.

A Bannor / Clan war obviously makes sense from the lore. Someone may have to arrange for the Amurites to open borders to at least one of the armies.

There is a southern pass which is the fastest route between them as long as Amurites don't settle there...

 

[Bad Player]

That is a good point, I should indeed give anyone the reward if they get to Mysticism. It makes more sense for Ceridwen not to put all her eggs in one basket anyway, particularly if it is a goody two-shoes Kuriotates basket when there are Calabim and Clan in the game. Do others agree that gifting a whole tech would be excessive under these conditions too? If so, I can gift the civs that get to Mysticism an Elder Council, Library, or settled Great Scientist instead.

Also, when I make my post (in two hours at the max, because I'll need to go somewhere after that) I'll post your save; I'm not going to do editing yet myself anyway.

EDIT: And I'll try to do the final map edits requested as good as possible.

All the civs get mysticism by turn 30 anyway so I think you need a more challenging quest...

 

[apenpaap]

All the civs get mysticism by turn 30 anyway so I think you need a more challenging quest...

I could make it Knowledge of the Ether that is required instead. I haven't had time to test how hard my quest was to complete, so I didn't know whether KotE would be too hard a goal.

 

[Bad Player]

I could run the game and check - I know the civs got mysticism at turn 30 because they converted to god king.

How can I check what techs a civ has (without being able to trade)??

 

[Lplate]

The Bannor has really bad AI programming - they are far too cautious about building a second city and in some games they just don't build a second city even while everyone else is building 2nd and 3rd (and more for CoE) cities! So stupid!!!

Maybe, their patron God could help them out on that one

Which reminds me, I'll have to remember to check how the Svartalfar get on during Verdian's first go and consider giving them a helpful nudge if needed.