Hermetic Lore for FfH DI6

[Lplate]

That seems like a great depiction of Alejandro, good job. I'll probably make a post myself later working the bit I posted on him in as well as a little story of him in the council (perhaps Samain's first day from Alejandro's point of view?). The only thing is that I think the houses of Seraph and Salvador would be more distantly related than Alejandro being Samain's direct uncle. Since the Age of Ice ended 100 years ago, I had intended for Alejandro to be the great-grandson or great-great-grandson of the original Salvador, so Alejandro and Samain would be third or fourth cousins. Though that of course doesn't rule out the possibility of Samain calling him uncle at all, since their families are relatively close and Alejandro might've been like an uncle to him.

The two houses are as distantly related as you say. The use of Uncle is to help indicate the friendliness and close bind that remains between the two houses and also the respect that Samain has for Alejandro. I'd have two young members of the two houses call each other cousin, even if they are fourth cousins or more distantly related.
Samain also refers to Tovias as Father and there's a couple of extra generations between them as well. Family is important to the Seraphs and using titles that emphasise the familial ties seemed to fit them.

 

[apenpaap]

Ah, I see, that makes a lot of sense. Once again, I like your idea of the Seraphs and their rather unique approach to necromancy a lot.

Also, mainly because it's funny and concerns necromancy in the Amurite lands, here's a little story that might interest you: part one and part two

 

[axecack]

.....

 

[Selrahc]

Landre Osh- Councillor of Sun

Spoiler :

Landre was a dreamer.
Since his earliest youth, he had been able to see vast panoplies of creation unfolding in his mind. He dreamt of the end of the winter that enfolded them. He dreamt of summer, and fruit and birds. Things that no living Amurite would have seen. He dreamt of the coming of Kylorin and the defeat of Mulcarn. He told his dreams to the town elders, but they dismissed him as a fool child. When they came true, he was heralded. The tragedy was that Landre had dreamed the summer, but he could never see it. As a baby he had dreamed of a vast and unquenchable light. His parents had found him staring at the sun, blinded by its rays. But Landre never regretted it. Even now, he could still remember what happened. How the light had filled him. Made him in some way.. transcendent.

As he grew into a man, he married a woman. Practical where he was otherworldly, she helped him get his voice heard by the world. The woman gave him three strong sons and a loving daughter, although all were dead now. Faded into his dreams. His children grew and had children of their own, and played their own part in fulfilling his dreams of a great Amurite city.

Landre was an old man now. He lived in a palatial mansion on a hill. His living family often visited him, and helped him. Men had long since learned the value that came from his dreams. He was part of "The grand council of the Amurites" now. Set to govern justly and wisely. None of it seemed really true to Landre. They were always in such a rush. Pushing and jostling over every little thing. His little grandson Puldo was always pressing him to be more involved. Landre was, as ever, consumed by his dream world.

There was one dream that came to him now more than ever. A dream of a tower... He saw himself climbing it and reaching the top. He saw a box, and within the box... Something that would change the Amurite nation forever.

He had to make that dream a reality. No matter the cost.

Landre is-
Very old.
Slightly confused by the waking world, not helped by his blindness.
Prescient of future events, albeit in a cryptic fashion.
Good natured and committed to helping people.
Obsessed with building the tower of divination, although he probably hasn't realized that yet.
Basically apolitical, and easily manipulated. Although his grandson will attempt to prevent people using him for anything too outrageous.

 

[Derf]

I guess it's about time I wrote up something about my Council Member, before I forget again.

Shanda, Councillor of Chaos

Spoiler :

She watched the Amurites with a calm that seemed out of place on her rough features. She had weathered the Age of Ice by fighting for what she believed in, and had seen no reason to turn aside from that.
Some called her a Harbinger, she knew, but those people were always missing a limb. And here she was completely intact. Camulos had answered her back in that Age, and kept her from harm as she fought.
"My lady," a voice behind her spoke warily.
"I'm not a lady," she snapped back, already back to her usual ungracious self. "So don't 'my lady' me. What do you want?"
"The council is convening again, my- uh-"
"Good," she cut him off. "Maybe this time they will listen to reason."

Most of the details about her can be found in this post of mine. I'd go into more detail, but I haven't really done much beyond that. I've been a touch on the busy side.

 

[Bad Player]

Updated opening for Samain

Spoiler :

"Samain Seraph looked up into the empty eye sockets.
"Thanks Father Tovias" he mouthed. It was Samain's first day at Council. He was nervous but the presence of his ancestor Tovias, who had served Kylorin himself, was very reassuring.
He looked around to see Cassiel looking over at him. He raised his glass in greeting. If Cassiel saw it, he made no effort to acknowledge the greeting. Perhaps, the great Cassiel thought himself too amazing to deign to acknowledge Samain. The other Councillors had not been so aloof. It had been interesting the way some offered condolences on the death of his father first while others prioritised congratulating him on becoming a Councillor. After his father's demise, he was the natural choice for the Death seat. It was not a position he'd sought or expected to enjoy. It was, however, the way he could be of most service to the family and the Amurites. As such, he accepted this duty.
The Seraphs placed great value on service and duty. One did what one could to be of service during life and then continued to be of as much service as possible to one's family and people when that first life was over. Even as Samain sat here, the preparation for his father's return was underway.
Samain remembered his arrival in Council. He'd arrived with Uncle Alejandro, who was supposed to introduce him to all the other councillors. He wasn't surprised when Uncle Alejandro vanished from his side as soon as they arrived. If there was one thing you could rely on Uncle Alejandro to do, it was not to do whatever he was supposed to. Alejandro Salvador had blown around the room like a leaf in the wind. He'd settled for the moment with Belle the Enchantress. From her laughter, it sounded like he was doing the enchanting.
The first group to intercept Samain had been led by X, the Mind Councillor. He seemed to want to make Samain the latest addition to his voting block and his reasons were very persuasive. Samain played the naivety card to buy himself more time. His rescue was completed by Catreena Uiscenna. The water councillor had a calming effect on discussions and Samain felt less pressurised after her arrival.
Before the session began, all of the councillors except Cassiel has made themselves known to Samain. Samain had sat in the Death seat to try to pull his thoughts together. He'd learned as much as he could about the councillors after his father's accident. Samain would need to understand the motivations of all of these councillors if he was to be an effective councillor himself.
Cassiel stood at his chair and called the session to order. He spoke with authority and all of the other councillors responded quickly, moving to their seats. Cassiel was an intimidating figure. One could almost see an aura of latent power around him. Samain closed his eyes and remembered his father's words, "Cassiel may have been an arch angel but now he is defined not by what he was but rather by all the things he refuses to do. A good man who will take what actions he can to help his people is worth more than a thousand angels who will fold their arms and refuse to oppose the tyranny of the Gods." He felt a skeletal hand rest on his shoulder. Samain opened his eyes, ready to say what ever needed to be said and not to bow to intimidation or what ever other force the other Councillors might use against him.
The agenda for the session this day was not too contentious; exploration, defence and developing means to better use our resources. Time had even been included to discuss raising a monument to Kylorin's victory over Mulcarn, given that it was the centennial."

I'll probably post this tomorrow.
Minor question. but how do we refer to the councillors?

• Air Councillor
• Councillor for Air
• Councillor for the Air Seat
• something else
• any of the above

Do we want to use any kind of honorific for councillors like M.P. or sir?

@Bad Player, what's the name of your councillor and is my representation of him okay?
@apenpaap, is this okay for Alejandro?
I didn't give much info out in the others but if there's a problem with the Enchantment and Water Councillors as depicted, I'll change it.
Are there any other councillors that any if you would specifically like me to mention in Samain's first day?

I'm not giving any quest this round.

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Thinking more about Laroth, I was going to have him capture and subdue Gyra around the time Necromancy is discovered.

I haven't thought of a name for my councillor so I will run with whatever you've got.

 

[Lplate]

I haven't thought of a name for my councillor so I will run with whatever you've got.

Devus Aragade it is then.

I've posted the first Death chapter on the story thread.

I added in Landre Osh and Shanda to the list of named councillors met. If Selrahc or Derf would like me to tweak the entries about their councillors let me know.

Edit: Got the Save from Post 43

Edit 2: Returning the Save

• Changed mana beside Sidar probable founding city position to Death and made the terrain a marsh.
• Deleted Grigori
• Moved Black Chasm to North of the Amurites. I made the tiles around the Black Chasm Abyss, Black Seas to allow the Drowns to walk through them (they can now reach the north peninsula as well as the Amurite peninsula) and put Tormented Souls on the Black Chasm for the graphical effect. I moved the fish one tile west out of the circle of Black Seas.

 

[axecack]

.....

 

[Lplate]

You forgot about Bentyr! I added a section, hope you don't mind. As for the Grigori, I think we should re-add them in at some point in the story. Under Decius, I kind of see them as godless mercenaries that would either split off of a religious faction like the Elohim/Malakim or perhaps emerge from a ship as part of some quest. I would love to see the interactions between the Amurites and another faction that doesn't concern themselves with gods. Another possibility is to have them be the founders of the religion "followers of the one" and have them start a crusade in order to purge all other religions from this world. This could tie into one of the existing plots of reascending either the life/ice/fire god and have them play as the primary antagonists that will stop at nothing to prevent the appointing of another deity.

I hadn't forgotten Bentyr. I thought that whatever glamour he had working would mean that Samain wouldn't have placed much importance on his meeting with him and so overlooked it, when thinking back about the councillors he'd met. Basically, I dodged him as I wasn't sure how to go about describing him.

Your story ticked the required boxes - mask to conceal identity/lack of ageing/allow for "son" to take over from "father"
- overlooked by most councillors

The more different councillor perspectives we get on the meeting, the better it will be for the story.

I think Dimensional is one of the Amurite mana types. Bentyr may have gained influence among a lot of ordinary folk by teaching them simple Dimensional cantrips and spells.

Your ideas for adding in the Grigori later make sense. It will also allow challenges to Cassiel about having lied to everyone, if the Grigori emerge preaching about the One.

 

[axecack]

.....

 

[Bad Player]

Please correct/help me here but as I understand it, Mammon's motivation or pleasure is in seeing other people be greedy for material possessions (what about knowledge?).

- Mammon wants the Amurites to seek access to reagents north of them as a priority over exploration or building a monument or whatever.
- Mammon might reward the civ with the most financial buildings in it's empire
- Mammon might help trade in material possessions by building roads between civs
- Would Mammon want hoarding of gold (or other material possessions)? Mammon could reward the civs with the most gold, most luxury resources (fur, dye, silk, gold resource, Kuriotate stuff they make)
- Mammon might reward civs who adopt consumption
- Mammon might give military help to a resource-seeking civ and might push for war against a non-materialistic civ
- Under what circumstances might Mammon want to promote peace between civs? Would regular trade in resources be his delight?


Some say that trade is the natural enemy of all violent passions but would greed mean that people will go to war to gain more material resources?

 

[Bad Player]

I'm still trying to understand what I do with the counsellor of mind. Is he meant to enact my plans or something??

 

[Calavente]

yes.
I think the line is crossed (or not) depending on the intent... and the means used to do it.

such that going to war to get the barb city with the nice reagant in its BFC will surely be greedy.
If you attack it to eliminate a potential source of great problem your ways, it might be a different matter.

If you just build monuments and carnivals to get more culture and pop the reagent in your border it mmight not be greed ; only planing and strategical reasoning.

greed, IMO would be the unneeded action going to fight just to get one more city and not because you really feel threatened.



EDIT: regarding counselor :
IMO you have multiple ways of playing him :

Remember : the councilor is councilor for the mana shpere (here Mind) and not councilor for the God of the sphere (here Mammon).
(it is a simili-magocracy where the councilors are aspected through their mastery or representativity of the Mana Shpere (here mind mana)... and not a theocracy-council where the councilor would represent their gods/beliefs (here mamon/ greed))

IMO in most cases, it is easier for good/neutral Gods to have their councilor think/act in parallel ways : as the god have not fallen, they are close to the aspect of the mana sphere they represent. The god that fell use distorted aspects of the mana sphere they were related to... therefore the councilor for the mana sphere might be more closely related to the mana sphere than to the fallen god.

So the councilor needs not be representative of your God actions/plans. They may oppose it, they may go for it...

-The mind councilor might be a genuine mind mana expert; very clever, almost clairvoyant, almost telepathic.
-It might also be a very uncanny successful trader that seems to always guess the good tricks... and he would be the mind councilor because there are no master of mind mana and his understanding of human/humanoid mind makes him the best representant.
-He can be a greedy guy, that won the seat buy buying it.... but he should be very clever... (the seat is the seat of mind and not of greed/trade/gold)

then you can play him as :

-either as a (evil) lackey for your God (mage is influenced by the fallen aspect of the god of mind/the merchant is infact member of the secret society of mammon worshipers)

-either as an independant/neutral voice , might be a good guy or not but not due to following mammon.

-he can be the exact counterpart for your god, trying to "redeem" the mana sphere ; this allowing you to play both sides of the coin : the evil mammon-worshipper and the good councilor. (as alignement goes, Mind would be neutral IMO, unless the councilor is greedy per se)


last, IMO, whatever the case, the councilors (save in case of dimensional and maybe a future Os-Gabella), should be loyal to the amurite cause and not to the God.(unless they prefere their own personal cause ... and this cause goes hand in hand with the God. but as their cause is linked to their place in the council, they might not want to put hardships for the amurites; only, maybe, in case of amoral ones, hardships to their fellow councilor position to "earn" more power.)


What could be fun would be to have a good/neutral Mind councilor .... and Mammon tries to make him become greedy (using is overmastery of the mind mana... he could have an easier access to a mind-related councilor to make him "fall" )

 

[apenpaap]

I'm still trying to understand what I do with the counsellor of mind. Is he meant to enact my plans or something??

He's just a character you can use. How you use him is up to you; you can have him part of your story, for example, advice Cassiel, etc. The councillor doesn't have to be on Mammon's side, if you want, he can just be a mind mage without much connection to Mammon.

 

[zbelg]

Deciding to change gods, if that's okay with everybody. Nantosuelta seems like a good pick, any help with lore or precepts would be appreciated. If I understand right, she has reason to hold personal favor for the Amurites, and can serve as an adequate god to cover both craftsmen and mages.

 

[Derf]

Updated the first post for you. I don't have a problem with it - it gives us another good god.

 

[Bad Player]

So I have a god role and a councillor role which are probably different roles. Could you give me an example please of what the councillormught do apart from just being a character in a story? What would a mind councillor do in this game please?

 

[Lplate]

Great to have Nantosuelta in the game. What God did we lose?

So I have a god role and a councillor role which are probably different roles. Could you give me an example please of what the councillormught do apart from just being a character in a story? What would a mind councillor do in this game please?

The councillor wields influence, allowing you a means to push for preferred research/buildings/units/diplomaticrelations. My opening story, placed the mind councillor as someone already in control of a block of votes.
Remember Cassiel might not respond favourably to overt God activity, even when offering him something.
A mind councillor might hypnotise or otherwise mind control a unit - in game effect, set a route for a unit and tell Ravus he can't divert from it until the destination is reached.
If your councillor is a trader (or just rich), they might have their own money to invest, providing an explanation for the in game gift of a building.
The mind councillor might want all the power for themselves, initially building a core of supporters but ultimately planning on being a dictator and getting rid of the rest of the council.

The councillor is just a tool for you to provide narrative in the game. It provides another way for you to try and steer Ravus and the overall story and gives an additional means to justify some interventions.

 

[zbelg]

Great to have Nantosuelta in the game. What God did we lose?

Aeron. Notice that you created the Enchantment advisor, had you had any plans for her?

 

[Lplate]

Aeron. Notice that you created the Enchantment advisor, had you had any plans for her?

Posts 5, 9 & 26 have my main Nantosuelta suggestions. We'd also discussed that she'd have made an artificial leg for Sucellus, seeing as Tali moved one of his limbs.
I've no specific plans for Belle. You can use her or kill her off, as you see fit.
None of my plans for Death require Nantosuelta or the Enchantment councillor to behave in a particular way.

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On a completely separate note, I thought Samain would get married and have a child before the next God turn. As a councillor, he's quite a catch in Amurite society. If anyone has a character (or daughter/grand-daughter of one) that would be a good match, let me know.
He'll vote for what he thinks is right in council but his wife would be in a better position to sway his thinking than most.

The main reason for the wife and child is to emphasise the importance of family but also to show that life and time are moving on given the time scale of the game (Cassiel, Bentyr and Landre may seem unchanging over the God turns). I may use her as a sounding board when Samain develops his thoughts on freeing all souls from the Gods.
I could do something on the death of a relationship later but will probably just have the wife die of natural causes at some point, instead of having the marriage fail. She may prefer not to be reanimated.