Hermetic Lore for FfH DI6

[apenpaap]

Well, so I am Tali, it seems. Thanks for switching, axecack. The way I see it, Tali is a god of Chaos, much like Camulos. However, while Camulos is more on the destructive side of Chaos, the side that destroys order and civilisation, Tali is more about subverting order than destroying it. I can see him favouring civilisations going for the Liberty civic and similar ones, and disliking ones like the Social Order civic, as well as the Order. I could even see him supporting evil civs if the Order gets too powerful. I don't think he's fond of the Ruins of Kilmorph either; all that focus on work and rules seems awfully boring.

He is also the patron god of adventurers, and so I'll have him help scouting units and some heroes and such out a little. But not really consistenly; he's not a very reliable god and sometimes completely forgets those who worship him.

Tali does not seem to be a god who plans ahead, living in the moment. Therefore I won't have any plan, and may end up supporting good one turn, evil the next.

By the way, my fellow gods, have a look at the Bestiary of Erebus.

 

[zbelg]

Well I'm not sure how useful this will be for you but here's the FFH lore compendium:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/48169072/FFHLoreCompendium-v3

Thanks, that is very helpful just trying to get a fundamental understanding of what some of the lore's about. I really had no idea the pantheon created for this mod was so extensive until recently.

 

[axecack]

.....

 

[Selrahc]

I'll claim Lugus. Looks like people are fine with the plot I've got planned.

 

[Calavente]

Well I'm not sure how useful this will be for you but here's the FFH lore compendium:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/48169072/FFHLoreCompendium-v3

any alternative way to get a downloadable version of it without paying $5 ?

 

[Lplate]

I agree with trying to make the world quite inhospitable (but not impossible) in the early stages. There would be horrible sea creatures in the waters from OO, tons of undead from the lack of a proper life god, lots of frostlings left over from the perma winter, and rampaging orcs because they got a head start during the age of ice.

I wouldn't think of orcs getting a head start in the age of ice. They like hot climates and their Goddess was in recovery in Agares Vault. I would see their high fecundity making their numbers grow significantly in the years after the age of ice ends rather than prospering during it.
I'd have the undead hordes develop as the game goes on.

I thought Tali was female as well.

Has anyone decided on what their CM will be like?

We need to discuss and agree on what civs need to be kept in the game;
Illians
Doviello
Sheaim - to allow Nemed to be freed
Lanun - someone has to start OO
What other civs do people want involved from the start (others can be added in later).
If the map is big enough, are we keeping everyone in?

Feature ideas

Spoiler :

Glade of Amathaon

Spoiler :

One of the most scenic places in Erebus, which inspires some of the greatest art of the age.
Gold, marble, fruits are present on surrounding tiles but Amathon destroys any improvements placed there on each God turn (e.g. Miner is so distracted that he knocks through one of the mine's main support beams or trees grow at an astonishing rate up through the cottages. The cottages are destroyed and the trees grew too fast to be able to stay standing.)
When a mortal unit enters the Glade tile, Ravus Sol has to pick randomly from several spoilers; e.g.

• Unit begins to see beauty everywhere and is so distracted by it that they forget the mundane tasks like eating - gets Weak promo
• Unit spreads word of how gorgeous the glade is - nearest city to the glade (any CIV) gets a culture boost
• Unit is totally inspired. - Ravus Sol must bring it to a city or leave it at the glade. Unit is replaced with Great Artist on next turn.
• Unit feels glade is so wondrous it must be protected. - Unit must stay at Glade. Gets Held and some buffs to make it a better defender. If a different CIV builds an improvement on an adjacent tile, then this unit pillages it on the god turn and triggers a war.
• Unit wants to always be close to the glade - unit is replaced with a settler, which can not settle adjacent to the glade but must settle so the glade is within it's BFC
• Unit is heartened to know that there is such beauty in the world. Erebus truly is a place worth fighting for. - unit gets a combat promo. Unit will desert if AV is made the state religion.
• etc.

We could keep adding more as we think of them. Aiming for slightly more positive than negative but want both to reflect Amathaon's whimsical nature.

Tombs of Sucellus

Spoiler :

Several tombs get placed, with suitably fertile terrain around them. In each, we have a healing salve which is renamed as a body part, e.g. Left leg.
Each tomb should have a unique name;
"Skypath" beside the Khazad capital as the melted icicle provided their route up from underground,
"Underwater Entrance",
Etc

Black Chasm

Spoiler :

An area of ocean just off the coast is replaced with the hell terrain equivalent. This links to Danalin's vault. Drowns/Stygians periodically emerge from it to terrorise everyone until Danalin awakes.

I still haven't decided on a God.

Spoiler :

Arawn/Death could be interesting:
- D'Tesh lookalike, causing grief with skeletal hordes
- Arawn persuaded to be a bit more involved by Sucellus. There's also the whole transfer of the Life sphere to someone else.
- Laroth trying to become God (need to keep Sidar among the starting civs), perhaps attempting to get the Godslayer
- CM developing necromancy for humane reasons

I'm still quite drawn to Danalin/Water:
- he's actually doing something for a change
- it's all very open, which makes a nice change from Esus
- would get to do the big nasty effects of CHAOTIC OO and then temper it down with Danalin's return

Nantosuelta/Enchantment:
- attempting to bring Sucellus back
- loads of different ways to buff units
- control of Kylorin
- CM plotting to get rid of Cassiel

Sucellus/Life:
- possible resurrection of Sucellus and receiving the sphere of Life
- if Sucellus is reassembled, then he's the one God (other than Ice) who's free to roam Erebus
- developing an alternative God for the Life sphere if Sucellus isn't reassembled
- if Nantosuelta can't get all the original parts if his body, would she craft an enchanted limb for him. How would being the fantasy equivalent of a cyborg effect the God of Life?
- freeing of Nemed and possible reclaiming of the sphere of Life

Junil/Law and Kilmorph/Earth seem a little too rigid for me.

Amathaon/Creation would be difficult to do in a DI due to his capricious nature - he's not the type to give earned rewards, so I can rule him out (unless all the other Gods get grabbed).

Sirona/Wisdom:
No new ideas for this Goddess. It could be a nice laid back role trying to steer the council through the CM with minimal God interventions.

Oghma/Knowledge:
CM could lead the Magocracy supremacist faction but haven't got any real ideas for the God.

Cernunnos/Nature
I've nothing new for him given the ideas that Ravus Sol was throwing out for the last DI. He could find being a God too much of a burden, paving the way for a change in Nature God. This would fit with big changes but is one of the possibilities that Ravus Sol had already come up with.

---
I'm still thinking. What would probably help me most would be other players picking the Gods I think have most potential. I'd be happy knowing someone is developing the stories for them and it would force me to pick from a smaller selection.

 

[Derf]

Have a look in the third post for a relatively concise idea of what Camulos and his council member are likely to be like.
I'm tempted to have the Chaos Council Member secretly be a Harbinger, but that could cause a few issues - thinking of borrowing an idea from the last DI I had, where she'll have a kind of private cult that answers only to her. Essentially a group of bully-boys she can use to 'persuade' people who don't cooperate.

As for the other Civs and such, I don't really have anyone I'd like to see there for sure or gone at all - I can work with them all on an as and when basis.
Like the last DI, I think I'm going to sit out of the first intervention except for the obligatory Introduction to Camulos post that'll set the scene, remind the mortals that He still listens, etc. Right after the Age of Ice there'll be conflict of course, but most will just be trying to get a basic society down again, and that doesn't involve much war.
So Camulos will be watching and waiting until the next Intervention instead.

 

[Lplate]

Switched Arcturus and Os Gabella because she was completely surrounded by good civs and would have probably gotten wiped out before turn 50

Early elimination of the Sheaim might not be a problem.

1. It could allow for the freeing of Nemed and then he could take up a position as the Life CM. A former God who is the father of all men would have even more authority than the arch angel Cassiel. It also makes him available to later try and claim the Precept of Life.
2. If Os-Gabella had left the Sheaim in order to work her undercover plan among the Amurites, it could explain why they die off so early. If the Sheaim are eliminated, it means that the civ will be available when needed later due to the spread of corruption among the Amurites.
3. If Os-Gabella was with them but escaped, a story could be done of the appointment of the new CM when she arrives to infiltrate or else there could be some minor references to how a CM is acting differently (maybe acting a little more anti-male).

I don't think it's a problem if they survive either though, so might as well just let the dice roll for this one.

 

[apenpaap]

As far as I'm concerned, the Hippus can be deleted unless anyone else needs them. I've got much better ideas for my followers than to use them, so they can be removed to make space. We'll probably need to remove many more civs. Fortunately, the relatively low number of divine shoes filled means every god can likely keep the civs of their choosing in.

 

[Lplate]

Hi,

I took a look at the map. It looks extremely crowded in the East. I agree with getting rid of the Hippus. I'd suggest that we delete the Bannor unless a Junil wants them kept in and move the Svartalfar over on to the Eastern island. It will limit the Svartalfar but at least it will create a bit of space in the east.
I also think we should get rid of Charadon's Doviello.

For unique features:
The Palus should be moved close to the Balseraphs.
Tarch's tower should be moved close to the Illians (I couldn't find it).
I'd suggest that we move the Maelstrom to a tile 4 or 5 west of Maenalus. It's a bit landlocked where it is.

If I was placing the Glade of Amathaon, I'd put it to the far south of the Sidar.
I'd put the Black Chasm off the western coast of the continent.

---

Given how warmed up and vital the world is, it may be too late to run with a resurrect/prevent resurrection of Sucellus story. Life has already returned to Erebus.

 

[Lplate]

I am become Death.

I'll do death, Arawn, Laroth and Co. Ravus singling out the poor necromancer for notice in his opening drove me to it. I'll put my plots in this post.

Death Plans

• Seraphs trying to free souls from eternal enslavement to the Gods through necromancy
• Seraphs encouraging open Borders with Sidar
• Seraphs encouraging war with Sidar after transfers of knowledge don't go smoothly. I'll place a Death node in the Sidar lands as well to give another reason for the Seraphs to want the war
• Seraph challenging Cassiel over what he's concealing, specifically about the gems that give the Gods their power (they'll have some of their facts wrong)
• An Amurite necromancer developing into a D'Tesh like figure. Initially work with any players supporting Magocracy supremacists. Later switch to a second Amurite CIV with lots of undead units.
• Gyra letting souls return because of familial love and worrying that she won't be able to cope when Erebus becomes more populated
• Help Sidar get techs needed for Rathus
• Release barbarian Rathus if Sidar die too soon
• Place Nether Blade like weapons elsewhere in Erebus
• A Seraph learns of the location of the Broken Sepulchre (revealed on map). He and another adept (one with Death & Dimensional, the other with Meta-Magic & Dimensional) set out to reach it believing there is much they can learn from the site. Seraph member of the council may ask for someone to be sent to assist them in this quest as the reports would place it close to Letum Frigus. If they make it there (current location is up near Illians) I'll give Ravus the Necromancy tech. Their search will have disturbed Barbatos who will rise on the next God turn to start conquering the northern part of the world.
• Laroth capturing Gyra around the time Necromancy is discovered, making it easier to raise undead.

 

[apenpaap]

Hehehe, it'll be fun to see Arawn do something for once XD (or at least his precept). It seems rather unusual gods are getting picked for play this time around.

As for civs, I'd say we need to delete about a third of them. I suggest we remove one of the dwarf civs, as they tend to play rather similarly (as characters, I mean, I know their gameplay is different).

 

[Lplate]

@apenpaap,
While it may be too late for the resurrect/prevent resurrection of Sucellus stories, it's possible that Tali has already done her mischief. If she hid one of the limbs, Nantosuelta could have been forced to create an enchanted limb for the returned Sucellus.

• This would mean Tali has a limb that's oozing Life magic to gift to some adventurous person who loses a limb. It would help them heal automatically (March promo) but also make them a possible contender for the role of Life or Nature God, as they'll contain part of the original Sucellus.
• Nantosuelta is the Angel of Faith and Enchantment is her sphere. If the God of Life is part golem, then it's conceivable that some of these enchanted beings could develop Faith in the Life/Golem God Sucellus. This could leave these golems open to learning from experience (living), justifying the Nantosuelta Player or the Sucellus/Life player in gifting xp or specific promos to some golems.

If we're getting rid of some dwarves, I'd vote to keep the Luchuirp.

 

[Derf]

Ditto on that - I've never played a game yet where the Khazad lived up to their potential, unless they were played by a human player. Some of the modmods with the Better BTS AI aren't too bad, but they're still not very good in my experience.

But like I said, all my plans are civilization agnostic. I can retailor them to another with only minimal work. Planning something that will work for (almost) everyone is a little tricky, but it does save time when someone else nicks the civ you wanted to use.

In other news, we currently have six gods claimed, unless I've missed someone claiming one. I tried to avoid that though.
We have one good god (Lugus, claimed by Selrahc), three neutrals (Arawn - Lplate, Dagda - axecack, Tali - apenpaap) and two evil gods (Camulos - me, Aeron - zbelg).
For those considering joining the game, there's plenty of good gods to go around - for some reason they never seem to get much love, everyone wants to be evil.

 

[apenpaap]

@apenpaap,
While it may be too late for the resurrect/prevent resurrection of Sucellus stories, it's possible that Tali has already done her mischief. If she hid one of the limbs, Nantosuelta could have been forced to create an enchanted limb for the returned Sucellus.

• This would mean Tali has a limb that's oozing Life magic to gift to some adventurous person who loses a limb. It would help them heal automatically (March promo) but also make them a possible contender for the role of Life or Nature God, as they'll contain part of the original Sucellus.
• Nantosuelta is the Angel of Faith and Enchantment is her sphere. If the God of Life is part golem, then it's conceivable that some of these enchanted beings could develop Faith in the Life/Golem God Sucellus. This could leave these golems open to learning from experience (living), justifying the Nantosuelta Player or the Sucellus/Life player in gifting xp or specific promos to some golems.

If we're getting rid of some dwarves, I'd vote to keep the Luchuirp.

I like the idea of Tali having already stolen something. I think I'll have a leg, it seems a good, but non-vital thing to steal. (I want to mess with Sucellus' resurrection, not prevent it after all. I'm a trickster god, not an evil one) I'll put up a little story about it, because I don't think Tali is the type to keep quiet about something like that: he's going to want to share a joke like that with the world and rub Sucellus' nose into it (clouds in the shape of feet? winds leaving leg-like patterns on the ground on occassion?)

And I hadn't even thought of what this would mean for golems. In that light, it would probably more interesting to have Luchuirp than Khazad in the game.

 

[axecack]

.....

 

[Lplate]

@Calavente
@Lplate
So is this "freeing of souls" going to go along with the huge undead problem? As in, should we spawn a bunch of skeletons, corpses, and undead lairs all over the place?

Anyways, it's already Thursday and we need to have the save ready by the end of the week so if nobody steps up I'll enact the changes you all were talking about and repost it here. Here is what I plan to do:

• Delete the Bannor until we get a Junil
• Delete the Khazad until we get a Kilmoriph
• Delete the Hippus
• Delete Mahala and space out Auric and Charadon (because I really want the north to resemble the age of ice scenario)
• Move the Lojisofar closer in
• Separate the east a bit so there wouldn't be big clumps
• Move the Sheaim back east and see what fate has in store for them
• Spawn a bunch of undead on the map
• Spawn a bunch of sea creatures on the map
• Move the maelstrom more out to sea

I'll check back in a bit to see if there are any objections.

On a side note, I'm wondering how we'll handle our CMs and the council meeting. I think we should have a council meeting every turn and work as a collective in order to provide a big writeup on the plot. Since we don't have a Cerdiwen and because the seat of balance is Cassiel's, I want to make Bentyr Darbani (Tebryn Arbandi) the holder of the Dimensional seat on the council. It would make sense from a lore perspective because Cerdiwen was the one who saved him from Camulous' hell and it would also make sense from a thematic perspective because Os Gabella held the same seat on the Amurite council in the Age of Magic. So once we finish fiddling around with the save, I think we should pool our collective efforts and create a bunch of CMs and then write up a big post on what's going on in the inner politics of the Amurites at this time.

Please don't spawn a bunch of skeletons, corpses, and undead lairs all over the place. I'll develop the undead problems as we go along.
I'm fine with the rest of your list.
If you could, include that Black Chasm off the Western Coast and a single Drown coming from it.

I was planning on writing up my story as Samain Seraphs first day as a Council member. Initial scribble,
"Samain Seraph looked up into the empty eye sockets.
"Thanks Father Tovias" he mouthed. It was Samain's first day at Council. He was nervous but the presence of his ancestor Tovias, who had served Kylorin himself, was very reassuring.
He looked around to see Cassiel looking over at him. He raised his glass in greeting. If Cassiel saw it, he made no effort to acknowledge the greeting. Perhaps, the great Cassiel thought himself too amazing to deign to acknowledge Samain. The other Councillors had not been so aloof. It had been interesting the way some offered condolences on the death of his father first while others focussed first on congratulating him on becoming a Councillor. After his father's demise, he was the natural choice for the Death seat. It was not a position he'd sought or expected to enjoy. It was, however, the way he could be of most service to the family and the Amurites. As such, he accepted this duty.
The Seraphs placed great value on service and duty. One did what one could to be of service during life and then continued to be of as much service as possible to one's family and people when that first life was over."
It would help me if I knew what kind of first impressions the other Council Members might make on a newbie. He'd also have been advised by his father about the other councillors, so I could include this info as well.

Do we want to ask Ravus to wait til next week before he takes the save? At this stage, there isn't a clear picture of what the Council will be like. There's an Irish saying, a good start is half the work. I think it might be better to get that foundation in place and I don't think it will be done by tomorrow morning.

I'll try to scribble up a piece about how rough the seas are as well.

 

[Lplate]

I've read a couple of bits on Laroth; http://fallfromheaven.wikia.com/wiki/Laroth, http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=325035 &http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=315946.

Laroth is almost as much of a schemer as Esus (or Mammon). Obviously, its in his interest for the Sidar to survive. They're in the way of the Amurites, so should be first on Ravus's conquer list. I'm not too pushed whether they survive or are crushed. I can always have some Amurites revive the Sidar approach based on books they recover from the defeated Sidar. I will encourage (gift gradually) the Sidar to get the techs to allow Rathus (and the Nether Blade) to be unleashed on the world as early as possible.
If the Sidar die too soon, I'll make him a barbarian unit determined to seek vengence.
I'll also introduce other weapons similar to the Nether Blade into Erebus.

 

[apenpaap]

I love the idea of Tebryn Arbandi being on the council, as well as making the council meeting a communal write-up. I've already made my council member as I quickly mentioned in the main thread, but I'll describe him in a bit more detail.

Don Alejandro Salvador is an aging adventurer who has spent most of his life getting into trouble, either by journeying into the wild or by breaking the rules alternately. When he was young he was considered the black sheep of the house of Salvador, and has even been disowned for a few years after he was caught breaking into the home of a councilmember (not sure which one, but if anyone wants it to be theirs (or at least the parents of the councilmember's, as this incident is intended to have happened quite a long time ago) and possibly have them still hold a grudge over it, be my guest). He was reinstated a few years later after he warned the town of a goblin invasion and played a large part in its defence. Since then, most of his nephews and children have followed in his footsteps, and so when his aunt, the previous head of the family, died, he was an easy choice for their new leader and councillor. He doesn't really enjoy the responsibility this brings with it and tends to get quite bored in the council, sometimes not even showing up at all.

As for the impression he might make on a newbie, he would look like a reasonably old man, with grey streaks in his black hair and short beard. His clothes are not what you'd expect from a councillor, rough and tattered. He usually keeps his rapier and basic wilderness survival items with him even in the council. He's an impatient, careless, good-natured man who usually seems more concerned with joking around and flirting with any female council members than with the governing of the Amurites. He would probably have built up a bit of a reputation, seen by some as a brave adventurer and by others as a no good petty criminal who's fallen upwards through society, so how Samain Seraph perceives him is likely dependent on which view his family holds.

I do think, by the way, we still need to delete two more civs yet to make some space on the map. My own suggestion would be getting rid of the Kuriotates and maybe the Svartalfar.

 

[Derf]

If possible, I'd like to see both Ljos and Svart remain - the natural differences between them, while not something I have plans for, could make for some useful points later on down the line.