Hey, I killed Acheron!

[Muz]

..with 5 axemen, an adept, all using enchanted iron weapons. All I casted was Courage and Blur, and he was hardly any trouble. The strange thing was that Acheron was untouchable in all my previous games, he'd outlast all the civilizations, including the apocalypse riders. My sis had 2 IMMORTAL vampire lords, a lich, a vampire archmage, with a vampiric ogre and they ran away like wussy workers when facing him That vampire ogre was so strong and fast that he literally razed a city every 2-3 turns.. solo!

So, I thought it would it would be a big deal. I gathered up about 10 axemen, a hero, two champions, and 3 hill giants to face him. And I 'accidentally' killed him while I was trying to just weaken him. The dragon slayer only got 11 experience points

Is this a 'bug' or a 'feature'? Because it feels kinda disappointing to have one of the most powerful units fall to only a few untrained axemen with the aid of a single hedge wizard.

 

[Alsark]

Your sister plays Fall From Heaven? Hawt.

But on a more serious note, nicely done! Yeah, in most of my games, Acheron sticks around for awhile.

 

[nihonjeff]

Calabim can handle him right quickly.

1) 8-10 unpromoted Moroi (fewer if they have promotions or metal weapons)
2) Enrage
3) Profit!

 

[Muz]

Your sister plays Fall From Heaven? Hawt.

But on a more serious note, nicely done! Yeah, in most of my games, Acheron sticks around for awhile.

My sis is a very aggressive player; she builds 6 or so warriors and rushes. I'd find a girl like that scary rather than hawt, especially one who plays Calabim all the time

Lol, I was surprised when I beat Acheron so easily. I want a tougher Acheron in the next patch, preferably one with less culture It could be that he was so easy because he spawned only 3 tiles next to a production city, rather than on a remote island or next to a competing civ.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm actually thinking of doubling the strength of all the Dragons in my modmod, and maybe giving them the flying promotion. I might make him start with the horde equipment in promotion form, and make it slow him down to 0 movement. I'd block the Barbs from dropping or taking the Horde, but once you capture him he would lose the promotion and you could move your dragon freely.

 

[Arcite36575]

Yeah, I always thought too that the dragons were too weak. By the time Divine Essence comes around, or when your civ is advanced enough to use beastmasters to capture Acheron, you're at the end of the game, and all of your other humaniod/golem units are just as powerful, if not more so because of your promotions.

Doubling the base strength is one idea. Maybe adding the hero promotion or maybe more powerful fireballs. I'd definately make the dragons all have three first strikes because dragon scales are pretty tough right? Ok. . . I'll add no more ideas here, or else I'll have the dragons turning into gods

Ditto to the dragon's horde giving a -1 to movement promotion. It would make Acheron more useful to capture.

Speaking of "dragon scales," how about a possible event where if you kill one of the dragons, you have a event? You could have a "dragon scales" equipment made from the dragon's carcass? Say. . . +1 or +3 or +5 to the defense for one unit? The value of the scales could be different based on the civilization. I assume the dwarves would be better crafters so they could get the +5 scales from this event choice. You obviously couldn't get this event if you captured the dragons instead.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Hero and strength in the mid 40s might be bit much. I'm not sure if extra first strikes is needed, or why their scales would be represented by that.

Letting dragons fly seems very thematic (why else would they have such big wings?), although it would mean they couldn't use roads or get terrain defenses.

I actually don't think breath fire should should make fireballs/meteors; it should be a Pillar of Fire type spell.

 

[stp]

Nice ideas MC. I always disliked dragons breathing meteors. On the defense and road thing: That would be justified from a thematic point. What would a dragon gain from roads that would most likely be too small for him? Or would a dragon fight against his enemies form a city wall? (Here I could see at least some possible uses) Alternatively, dragons could get two spell like abilities that add/remove the flying promotion. Unlike most birds, dragons can effectively move around on the ground.

 

[woodelf]

Everytime I kill Acheron I don't have enough troops left to finish off the orc warriors leftover so the AI swoops in an takes the city and the Hoard.

 

[perrinmiller]

Funny thing happened.

After weakening him with cannon fodder (dragon fodder I guess), I defeated him with my Beastmaster who captured the city. The Dragon was in tile I attacked from with my remaining support units.

Next turn the dragon has no moves remaining and it has healed some. Next turn same thing. I am missing something or shouldn't the captured dragon be acting like any other unit and I should be able to control him?

 

[Llewen]

You have to give him the mobility promotion with the experience he gets slaughtering most of your army. That's why I always attack him with a ton of cannon fodder (I'll actually use scouts), just to get him as much experience as possible. It also prevents accidentally killing him.

 

[BeefontheBone]

A stoneskin promotion with a python loop to reapply it after each combat (representing tough scaly skin) would help Acheron beat off massed units more often. As would Cannibalize I guess.

 

[xienwolf]

Make it so that carrying the Dragon's Horde grants the effect of Stoneskin (to reflect use of the Dragon's Scales after killing Acheron, and to reflect HAVING scales while he lives and holds his own Horde). Then just don't make the Dragon's Horde expire after combat like Stoneskin does

 

[sylvain5477]

Everytime I kill Acheron I don't have enough troops left to finish off the orc warriors leftover so the AI swoops in an takes the city and the Hoard.

I usually use assasin to finish the orcs first

 

[hbar]

I might make him start with the horde equipment in promotion form, and make it slow him down to 0 movement

Would that mean that you couldn't move the dragon's horde a better city? What if you wanted to raze Acheronville?
*Ugh, its so heavy! Can't...move...*

 

[xienwolf]

You'd have to use something with a 2 or greater is all. Plenty of those around

 

[BeefontheBone]

Or jump through an Obsidian Gate, or get in a transport ship/the Trojan Horse, or possibly have a hawk or something pick it up (though that's probably blocked, can't remember). The Hoard looks pretty darned heavy to me so moving it should be difficult

 

[A_Hamster]

Speaking of "dragon scales," how about a possible event where if you kill one of the dragons, you have a event? You could have a "dragon scales" equipment made from the dragon's carcass? Say. . . +1 or +3 or +5 to the defense for one unit? The value of the scales could be different based on the civilization. I assume the dwarves would be better crafters so they could get the +5 scales from this event choice. You obviously couldn't get this event if you captured the dragons instead.

That's a good idea! You could also make several such events to reflect different myths. In The Nibelungenlied, when Siegfried killed the dragon, he brought back the heart for Albrecht the Dwarf, and cooked it. He accidentally got some of the blood on him while cooking, and in licking it off he gained the power to understand animal speech. He then heard the birds talking among themselves saying that if he wasn't such a fool, he'd eat the dragon heart himself and gain the magical benefits, then kill Albrecht, who was going to kill Siegfried once Siegfried had finished cooking the heart for him. Whereupon Siegfried promptly did so.

Similarly, there's the story of the dragon's teeth from Greek mythology where Jason sowed the Dragon's Teeth and got instant warriors. The Dragon's Teeth could be Equipment that can be used as a one shot Recruiter promotion.

Now it would be too good to get all of these at once, so perhaps it could be based on the civ you are playing, reflecting different cultural beliefs or knowledge of the societies. Thus the Khazad and Lurchuip would know how to craft the armor, the Dovillo, Illians and Clan would know about the power of the blood and heart etcetera.

 

[mahazel]

Idea of 2 x strength is realy good. In one of my game I got Abashi, but she`s been killed in one battle by knight with 5-star promotion :/ Also dragons are relict from Age of Dragons, they are huge and are creations of Gods, so why Acheron is only 5 point of strenght better than berserker? They should have the same power as Meshaber or Mitril Golem, and build them should be ritual, not just production, so they should cost much more hamers.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yeah, having Acheron, the greatest weaponcreatedby the Goddess Bhall, have identical strength as The War Machine, a weapon created by a human (a Doviello no less), makes no sense. Being Magic Immune and having stoneskin isn't enough to set them apart.

I think that the Avatar of Wrath and the Mithril Golem are too weak too. Currently I don't think they are even worth building, given their cost and AV requirements. This is especially true for the Mithil Golem, since it cannot get any promotions. It may be good at taking cities, but overall it isn't impressive, and is usually too slow to get to the enemy cities in the first place. I prefer to boost their strength with significant affinity though, instead of boosting their base strength. I'm also giving the Mithril Golem 2 movement instead of 1. He has really long legs after all, and is quite light for his size.


Breath Fire really seems like it should work like Pillar of Fire, but I might have to take the spell away from the Dragon promotion and make it unit specific; I'm adding Drifa the White Dragon from AoI, and I don't think that this Ice Dragon should breath Fire.