Hidden Nationality & Stealth Attack

[Rambuchan]

I'm a complete modding noob but I'm giving it a go. I'm making changes to King Arthur's excellent Viking Scenario "Going Viking":

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=89569

Something I'm equally fascinated and perplexed about is Stealth Attacking and Hidden Nationality. In my mind they go hand in hand. I'd firstly like a bit of help understanding these two unit qualities better. Do they go hand in hand? To me if a unit has HN but not SA there isn't much use in it having the Hidden Nationality. It just becomes a 'victim quality' rather than a strength. In what kind of circumstance would you want HN without an ability to attack independently of any peace agreements?

In the scenario, KA has some units (raiders) with HN but not SA. These are the ones I'm trying to change as they get picked off if undefended but can't attack during peace time.

 

[White_Knight]

As I understand it, HN simply gives the unit Barbarian colors and removes any way of finding out who owns it. If that's the case, then the only real use of a Hidden Nationality unit is the one you described - attacking the units (and possibly pillaging the terrain, I just thought of that but have never tried it) of another civilization without having to declare war. You might want this to take a powerful rival down a few notches without having his full might come to bear against you, or to avoid war weariness erupting in your cities, or just to mess with them.

Note that the AI will attack HN units the same way it goes after barbarians, so as you've noted, they are never safe unless stacked with a defensive unit which does carry your colors (and this rather defeats the point of the HN flag). If you want a HN unit which can pass through enemy territory unmolested your best bet is probably the "invisible" flag used for Submarines, but that might make the unit too powerful unless you add a unit capable of seeing them.

Stealth Attack is completely independent from HN (and is also completely independent from invisibility; correct me if I'm wrong but I get the impression you were confusing the two). This flag gives the unit the ability to attack any target in an opponent's stack or city, which actually includes Kings - very useful for Regicide games - and workers/settlers, I think. It's used for some of the units in the Conquests, such as the Ninjas in Sengoku. Come to think of it, the Ninjas are invisible too, though they don't have HN.

 

[Rambuchan]

Thanks for that White Knight. Yes, you're right, I was getting confused thinking Stealth Attack is related. Of course now I remember that it's a kind of 'selected' attack and completely separate from HN or invisibility.

 

[Hunter Noventa]

Just remember that if you have invisibility and not HN, if the enemy stumbles onto your unit war will be declared.

 

[Gomurr]

Just remember that if you have invisibility and not HN, if the enemy stumbles onto your unit war will be declared.

That's not entirely true. I've had invisible units discovered before, and they've just demanded I leave their territory, if I remember correctly.

 

[cheesecurds]

he means that if the AI goes on the same square as your invisible unit, war will be declared